Withholding video evidence

[spitfire1964]

Yes you are correct. I also pass thousands of motorists a day and I've never had a confrontation in the way you described.

Its your last bit of the quoted post that sends red flags up.

"its not my fault that people take exception to my driving"

 

That is a passive aggressive mentality.

 

You need anger management

 

Do you drive for a living, or just commute?

 

And if a car deliberately rammed you from behind or of the road, and drove off without stopping, am I right to assume that you would merely dust yourself down, carry on with the rest of the day and carry on as if nothing had happened...?

 

Some people are put into situations where the chances of being placed in those situations and maybe they and through experience have adopted your liberal approach and found that approach will never work, in reality.

 

If I am being honest, these bikers who wear the cameras, play up to the cameras, so to speak, to get a reaction, a mild form of entrapment and but for his little devise and the intentions of his devise the matter would have been history and not a relevant issue, blown out of complete proportion imo.

[tony c]

I only drive 20 miles a day and I see lots of bad driving and motorcyclists winding other drivers up, so I can understand how much more you see in 10 hours.

As I said, you can't change your statement now, so go in and don't give any more info different from your statement until you see the video footage.

By the way, where's this footage from?

Your on board camera or biker's camera.

If he filmed you on his mobile while driving, get the number plate and report him to the police.

Also, check if the biker has put the footage on YouTube, many do and that could give you an advantage in the DM.

 

Don't know m8 if it's bike cam or what I am pretty sure it wasn't on his helmet.cant be sure.

[spitfire1964]

Ooh look the speedster is back. Mr bush are you an anger management specialist if you are I hope your better at that than sticking to speed limits.

 

Speed kills, verbal words, on the other hand, will not.

 

Am I right to assume the sgbush found himself on here for advice on speeding, you could not make it up if that is established, the irony.

[tony c]

Ahhh spitfire that makes too much sense m8 a speeder without a conscience is a dangerous thing.

[sgtbush]

If you cannot see it was written with sarcastic overtones then your beyond redemption and mine and the majority of other posted on tho threads assumptions are clarified,justified and enforced

[tony c]

Wow Mr Bush your cv must be something to behold not only are you a part time drag racer as well as an anger management expert but your now a layside preacher who deems someone to be well past redemption. I give thanks that I have found you as your service's will bear me in good stead.

[renegadeimp]

Can we stop the childish arguing please guys.

 

Tony, with all respect, youve had the correct answer already. You have to wait until the meeting and ask to see it. Until that meeting you have no legal right to see any physical evidence at all. This is to allow the investigating person to stop any interference, or opportunity for someone to make up a story to fit the video.

 

You will go in, they will ask for your side of the story and tell you what you are accused of. You can then tell them your side. usually then, they will allow you to see the video and evidence and then comment on it. This is where you ask for a recess.

 

Remember though, if the evidence didnt show something similar to what the accusing party said, you wouldnt be suspended OR if not suspended, going to a disciplinary meeting.

 

If its not a disciplinary meeting, then it will be investigatory, and you have no legal right to see the evidence until the final meeting. Of course, the employer can allow you to, but its rare as they want it to be uncontaminated.

[BazzaS]

Hello,

 

I am not sure this is going to help you with your employer. Working on calm responses might help more?

 

What would help the OP achieve calm / calmer responses??

 

Either a different job where they aren't exposed to the "idiots" & "stooges", or the OP changing how they react (if they stay in their current role).

Anger management does seem appropriate.

 

As for the OP saying "you don't know the situation and are making assumptions" : of course all the responses will have to be based on assessment of what has been posted (but that applies equally to the responses they like & the ones they dislike!)

[tony c]

Can we stop the childish arguing please guys.

 

Tony, with all respect, youve had the correct answer already. You have to wait until the meeting and ask to see it. Until that meeting you have no legal right to see any physical evidence at all. This is to allow the investigating person to stop any interference, or opportunity for someone to make up a story to fit the video.

 

You will go in, they will ask for your side of the story and tell you what you are accused of. You can then tell them your side. usually then, they will allow you to see the video and evidence and then comment on it. This is where you ask for a recess.

 

Remember though, if the evidence didnt show something similar to what the accusing party said, you wouldnt be suspended OR if not suspended, going to a disciplinary meeting.

 

If its not a disciplinary meeting, then it will be investigatory, and you have no legal right to see the evidence until the final meeting. Of course, the employer can allow you to, but its rare as they want it to be uncontaminated.

Mr RI it's defo a DM I am having. If this evidence shows the biker to be lying are there any legal steps I can take

[renegadeimp]

It all depends on the result of the meeting. For now, try and focus on the meeting itself, what you will say, any mitigating factors, any evidence on your part. Try not to think of revenge etc until the meeting is concluded as it will cloud your judgement in the meeting and may cause you to say something you wish you didn't.

 

You could take action against the accuser, but then youd have to gain their personal info which i think would be very difficult. And youd have to prove you lost something out of it. Remember, people get accused of things every day. It doesnt give them a right to sue each other all the time. This isn't the USA where you can sue someone just because they looked at you wrong.

 

Imho, i would focus on yourself for now, go through the disciplinary and tell the honest truth and deal with things as they come. Then once the hearing is over, if its in your favour, take a deep breath, smile, walk away and focus on maintaining composure. Dont automatically think "sue sue sue sue" if it doesnt work out,( or even if it does). Try and do things by the book so you dont fall foul of things and make yourself look bad.

[sgtbush]

What do you mean by "if the evidence"

Surely you mean "when"

Going by what you have posted.

Legal recourse could be slander but you have to show actual losses for that I believe.

[tony c]

What would help the OP achieve calm / calmer responses??

 

Either a different job where they aren't exposed to the "idiots" & "stooges", or the OP changing how they react (if they stay in their current role).

Anger management does seem appropriate.

 

As for the OP saying "you don't know the situation and are making assumptions" : of course all the responses will have to be based on assessment of what has been posted (but that applies equally to the responses they like & the ones they dislike!)

The stooge part bazaa as it seems to have gone over your head is for you buddy in response to your film making. You seem to be like a director sitting in the wings and every once in a while pipe up some splurge. Now if you have something worthwhile to add please go ahead. If you don't well I suppose it could end up on the cutting room floor.

 

It all depends on the result of the meeting. For now, try and focus on the meeting itself, what you will say, any mitigating factors, any evidence on your part. Try not to think of revenge etc until the meeting is concluded as it will cloud your judgement in the meeting and may cause you to say something you wish you didn't.

 

You could take action against the accuser, but then youd have to gain their personal info which i think would be very difficult. And youd have to prove you lost something out of it. Remember, people get accused of things every day. It doesnt give them a right to sue each other all the time. This isn't the USA where you can sue someone just because they looked at you wrong.

 

Imho, i would focus on yourself for now, go through the disciplinary and tell the honest truth and deal with things as they come. Then once the hearing is over, if its in your favour, take a deep breath, smile, walk away and focus on maintaining composure. Dont automatically think "sue sue sue sue" if it doesnt work out,( or even if it does). Try and do things by the book so you dont fall foul of things and make yourself look bad.

Thank you sir for your thoughts and please don't think I am being antagonistic by calling you sir. I am going to tell the truth as I do I honestly can't remember that much about this incident. All I do know is I never done anything remotely like what this man is saying and how my bosses can conclude that his evidence can be anything like what he says is beyond me. But tue will tell I suppose.

[Emmzzi]

Emmzzi I am calm and I will respond to any perceived digs. This hostility is coming from all sides. I only wanted an answer to a relatively simple question. And then YOU decide to act like a stalker and feel obliged to drag up my past. What ever you or your companions on here feel about how I answer your question or digs should not defer from the fact that I didn't warrant any such ridicule or bitterness.

 

Clicking on your name to see if there was any post with extra context, when so much was missing from your frst post, is hardly stalking.

 

We still don't know what is in yours, or your manager's statement, to know if that will help or hinder you.

 

When you are in the meeting you need to be calm, rational, someone who it's unthinkable would drive/speak in the way suggested.

 

You seem unable to present yourself that way even with the benefit of time to think before typing.

 

I am worried that this will not go the way you want because you are unable to control your urges to put others down all the time.

 

Remember they do not need absolute evidence, just a reasonable belief, in order to dismiss. So how you conduct yourself is really important.

[tony c]

My manager hasn't made a statement

I have made a 7/8 line recognition of events that I remembered

I can and do converse in ways that are socially accepted and I do so with manners and respect.

Until I am provoked into as you say put downs.

 

 

Now if these people who provoke and prod me into these put downs don't like what I say then there is a simple answer.

Don't try and belittle me or try and push my buttons hoping I will rise to the bait and start effing and blinding, then you can all sit on your laptops or computers and say see he is a wrongun.

 

 

I am by far a pussycat and I can be a nasty Bastard but as I said I can be eloquent and calm and refrained.

As I will be on tue

[renegadeimp]

What do you mean by "if the evidence"

Surely you mean "when"

Going by what you have posted.

Legal recourse could be slander but you have to show actual losses for that I believe.

 

I say if because nobody here apart from tony knows whatt happened. Everyone here needs to keep their personal feelings out of it and start discussing the procedures for him to follow.

[sgtbush]

Reneg

My post was directed at the OP not you

[renegadeimp]

thats fine, but my post still applies.

 

 

Everyone here needs to stop arguing like little kids,

or the thread will get locked/removed and people not allowed to post here again.

 

I believe tony has been given the right info now, so its up to him how to use it.

[tony c]

thank you RI I will use the info correctly.

[king12345]

At the DM

they will try to squeeze a long version of your statement out of you before showing the footage.

Don't fall into this trap.

 

As far as you know,

the footage might show the entire incident or just the few seconds you told the biker to f off (if you did).

So don't commit to anything.

 

Stick to your statement and say:

"this is all I remember, maybe the video can help refresh my memory"

 

If they ask you if you swore, don't say yes or no, but say:

"usually I don't swear, so it is very unlikely, but I don't recollect what exactly was said in this conversation. I don't know for sure".

The video will show (or not show) what happened.

After you see the video, take a break with your union rep and discuss what to say.

 

Video evidence is great for professional drivers like you because the many times I defended bus drivers in the past,

not once they had done something wrong and I am sure that you didn't try to run the biker over or did something dangerous. (or did you?)

 

More likely he cut in front of you and slammed on the brakes, something they do all the time for some crazy reason.

Remain extremely calm even if they try to wind you up.

 

If they say that you have done something wrong,

instead of arguing

ask them how they can help you correcting your faults:

Extra training, shadowing with a senior driver or (why not?) an anger management course.

After all they have a duty of care towards you and by showing that you want to improve it will play in your favour.

 

They don't want to send you on any course,

they need you on the road clocking miles for them and that's what you have to keep in mind.

[tony c]

Cheers m8

[BazzaS]

Legal recourse could be slander but you have to show actual losses for that I believe.

 

No longer just "actual losses" but the benchmark is now "serious harm" (caused, or likely to be caused).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/section/1

[Emmzzi]

Then there was this other statement from a record of discussion I had with my manager on a totally seperate issue.

 

Hi, I was referring to this form an earlier post you made " " It won't be there for no reason - it may be there to support proof of a pattern of behaviour, which supports their reasonable belief of a set of circumstances, or a conclusion they are going to draw. Is the content of that record of discussion likely to help or hinder your case?

[BazzaS]

Worth noting that the OP has remained silent on if his employers know him for "losing his rag" / if he has been subject to any previous disciplinary action : this being relevant to any likely outcome.

 

The OP admits to telling the other driver to "F-off" and we know they have also done so before : what does the employer know regarding their likely responses (temperate or otherwise) to disagreements, especially driving ones?

[Emmzzi]

Worth noting that the OP has remained silent on if his employers know him for "losing his rag" / if he has been subject to any previous disciplinary action : this being relevant to any likely outcome.

 

The OP admits to telling the other driver to "F-off" and we know they have also done so before : what does the employer know regarding their likely responses (temperate or otherwise) to disagreements, especially driving ones?

 

Even I think you're stirring now. Let's see if Tony can shed any light on the record of discussion.

[BazzaS]

Even I think you're stirring now. Let's see if Tony can shed any light on the record of discussion.

 

Would that information be relevant to the employer's decision?

I think it would.

It was a question asked (by me) previously, and remains unanswered.

I thought it was relevant before, and I believe it remains relevant.

 

If you disagree that it is relevant : I'd happily listen to your reasoning for why (I accept that you have greater expertise in this field than mine).