Unscrupulous ex, divorce and inheritance

[maddiemay]

I've been seperated for 2.5 years

I've had all the usual hostility from him that's seems to be usual despite him being the one to leave for another woman.

 

I issued a divorce petition earlier this year as we'd agreed,

on a two year seperation ground with consent,

he ignored it,

 

 

then issued one himself on the same ground about a month ago,

so far I've not done anything simply because I can't afford to seek legal advice.

 

Our son was told by his grandfather he will inherit a substantial amount upon his death,

this wasn't anything we didn't know as it's always been known amongst the family that the grandchildren will inherit equal shares in his estate and the children (my ex and his sister) will get nothing.

 

 

The reason both grandparents decided on that was to avoid any spouses with children inheriting in the event of death of their children (my ex and his sister) and the daughter/son in law (me and sisters husband, both of whom had children with someone else) inheriting, and then ultimately their children who were only remotely related by marriage inheriting when we die.

If you're still with me I'm impressed...

 

A few months ago my ex father-in-law passed away, a year after mother-in-law.

Since his grandfathers death my son has asked his father a couple of times about how it's all going,

he's 21 so naturally is interested to know how he can plan his life with his grandads gift.

 

The subject has been dismissed by his father,

but is himself spending like a lottery winner and has not been to work since the day his father died.

 

Today my son had a disturbing conversation with his grandads life long best friend who was so relieved that the subject of the will was brought up,

stating that he's had sleepless nights about it because he had been named executor of the will for over 40 years and had many conversations with my sons grandad over the years about not wanting my X to get his hands on his money and how disappointed he was of his dishonourable son, but is powerless to stop him.

 

Allegedly,

a new will was written but not signed,

shortly before his death, and only my ex has had sight of this or the previous one.

There is only one other family member and sadly she will do exactly as her brother (my ex) tells her to do

 

It seems that the executor title has been stripped from the lifelong best friend and my ex and an equally dodgy family member are now the executors,

the friend knows they are not following the correct procedure

and are moving money around,

and is pretty confident he's not going to distribute it as his friend had wished.

 

I'm confident it's being hidden to avoid disclosure when the time comes for financial remedy in the divorce,

my son has seen a bank statement with a substantial amount deposited and withdrawn the same day, leaving nothing but pennies in the account.

 

How is it possible to have access to the deceased mans money, shouldn't all accounts be frozen until probate is granted??

Any suggestions as to how he could be doing this?

 

The estate has several assets worth a huge amount of money,

inheritance tax will be payable,

how is he getting away with this and should my son be doing something to protect his and his cousins inheritance.

[unclebulgaria67]

How do you know a new will was drafted but not signed ?

 

Does your Grandads friend named as executor still have a signed copy of the will ? Does he know whether a local Solicitors was dealing with the deceaseds family affairs ?

 

I thought Bank accounts were frozen until probate was granted. Perhaps grandads possessions were sold to raise money ?

 

There is probably a court application that can be made or dispute that can be raised, but i don't know the procedure. If there is doubt about the new will, then this should be raised urgently. Perhaps your Grandads friend and your Son, can see whether a local Solicitors will provide some initial free advice, to point them in the right direction.

[Ethel Street]

Check here to see if a Will has been given Probate, and if so get a copy of it.

 

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

 

 

It might be too soon for it to have appeared yet so if nothing there keep on checking.

 

A new Will "written but not signed" is not a valid will and has no legal significance. The earlier Will would still apply. Did anyone have a copy of it? Or do you know where it was kept? Possibly with your F-in-L's solicitor if he had one. The family cannot 'change the executor' on a valid Will. Only your F-i_L could have done that. (There is a procedure for changing executors, eg if the named executor is unwilling to do it, but that doesn't sound relevant here.)

 

Before your F-i-L and M-i-L died did your ex have Power of Attorney to operate their bank accounts? POAs legally terminate at death of the 'donor' but it's not unknown for unscrupulous people holding a POA to continue using it after death and not tell the bank the person has died. If this was done it's a crime - theft - and could be reported t the police.

 

Banks freeze accounts when notified of death of account holder - from my recent experience with my M-i-L they do it instantly the moment you tell them. But I also know of a case where deceased's brother had use of deceased's bank card and knew PIN. He didn't tell bank and emptied the account. That's also theft.

[maddiemay]

Thanks for the replies,

I know my X FIL did everything by the book,

updated his will frequently, I

was very close to my ex in laws and it was always me he discussed things with,

at the time I used to say things like stop talking about that,

as you would for someone you cared about.

 

I nam confident he wouldn't have given POA to my ex, his sister possibly but he would not have trusted my ex with anything.

My ex told our son there was an unsigned will but they couldn't find the one before it, probably to buy time I imagine.

I know for sure it will have been there somewhere!

 

The large transfer came from the sisters account, two days after FIL died.

I'm sure there's many more since but that's the only statement my son has found.

 

 

The complication is the very successful business, I would estimate it generated around £20,000 per month with minimal outgoings.

A few months before he passed away ex and his sister were made directors of the company, with FIL holding the majority share.

I can only guess that, his share has been left to someone in his will.

 

 

In the meantime the two directors are taking a huge monthly salary, and or dividends, money that should probably be sitting there waiting for the person/s who have inherited FIL share of the business, is that how it works?

[Ethel Street]

The business adds a complication to this. I don't know enough about company law to advise you, but my first thought is what type of company is it? ie, a partnership or a limited liability company or whatever? If it's a private limited company then it's a separate legal entity and isn't part of his Estate. His shares in it are part of his Estate but the company's assets are not. If there are 2 other directors they can presumably continue running the company and can decide to pay themselves whatever they choose as far as I know, at least as long as the salary/dividends don't make the company insolvent. I wouldn't have thought there was any law that says the directors must ensure that the company's assets are kept in the company "...waiting for the person/s who have inherited FIL share of the business" but it's a complex legal area and I don't know much about it. Although does whoever is the Executor under the Will have powers to act as a Director? Maybe someone on here knows the answer to that.

[BazzaS]

For a limited company, with shares held:

 

Directors can pay themselves salary.

Directors can approve a dividend,

but dividend goes to shareholders

(including shareholders who are directors, but not directors who are not shareholders).

 

Executor holds the legal title to the shares until they get distributed to the beneficiary.

 

 

Executor can thus "vote the shares",

subject to any provisions in the company's articles of association

(which may make the shares 'non-voting' until they pass to the beneficiary).

[Ethel Street]

Thanks.

 

 

Can vote as Shareholder but presumably does not takeover the directorship.

ie neither the Executor nor the beneficiaries can step in and take part in the day to day running of the company as a director of the company.

[BazzaS]

Except (depending on the percentage of their shareholding!),

can call a general meeting, and appoint / remove directors.

 

A 'savvy' director will have ensured a contract with salary,

so may not be able to prevent themself being removed,

but will have ensured that to do so will cost the company .....

[Ethel Street]

Thanks.

I'm sure the death of the director will terminate their service contract automatically though and won't cost the company anything!

[BazzaS]

True, but isn't it the actions of "ex and his sister", rather than the deceased, that are the concern?.

[Ethel Street]

Ah, yes, I see what you mean.

[maddiemay]

Thank you all for your input, I'm trying to understand it all and research as much as I can.

 

The business is a ltd company, each sibling has 25% and deceased had 50%.

 

The friend had a conversation this morning,

(bear in mind he's been a family friend for 60 plus years) with ex's sister,

just asked sort of casually,

what's he (ex) up to?

 

 

She burst into floods of tears,

saying she's terrified of my ex (her brother) and she's aware he's determined her kids will get nothing.

I know for a fact it was all meant to go to the 4 grandchildren, that was always F & MIL wishes and everyone knew it.

 

FIL friend said he'd be happy to go with my son to approach the other grandchildren to ask if they're happy with the executor,

who don't forget has proved to no one yet that he is actually named as such,

only he went to the reading of the will (not sure if it was the old one, unsigned one or both)

 

From what I have read so far as probate hasn't been applied for yet,

a next of kin can ask a solicitor to put the ''executor' on notice that if they don't accept probate within 8 days they will be forced to hand over the duty to someone else, in this case I'm sure they'd agree it should be the friend.

 

Seems a little odd that he's in no hurry to apply for a grant of probate??

What other reasons could there be, other than its not all above board, any suggestions anyone?

 

It's neatly 5 months since the death and the only person with a big fat bank balance (albeit for minutes before it was transfer out again) is the 'executor' seems fishy to me!

 

Thoughts are greatly appreciated

[Ethel Street]

You may have read this site maddiemay which refers to many of the points you have made.

 

https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge/legal-articles/2013/04/04/removing-and-substituting-executors/

 

You need court orders to do any of the things mentioned in it though, so you need a solicitor to act for you.

 

The difficulty you have though you aren't at this stage yet. This advice on this link seems to me to assume that you have the Will and know who the appointed Executor is. You don't.

 

You say of your ex that he "has proved to no one yet that he is actually named as [Executor], only he went to the reading of the will (not sure if it was the old one, unsigned one or both) ". I don't understand that. What do you mean by a 'reading of the will'? A 'reading of the Will' only happens in films, not real life! Who do you think read it out, and to who? And I'll repeat what I said earlier, an unsigned, unwitnessed, "will" is not a will at all. It's just a bit of paper with no value and significance. A Will is only valid if signed and witnessed.

 

Seems to me that you need to consult a solicitor as soon as possible. There may be fraud going on here that needs reporting to the police. The Estate sounds large enough to justify the expense of a solicitor. And it sounds like anything up to £10,000 a month of net income could be accruing into the Estate (unless your ex and his sister have managed to pay it all to themselves!).

[maddiemay]

It did sound a bit dramatic Ethel I agree,

what I meant was,

only he went to a solicitor,

I'm assuming the one holding the will,

whom my in laws visited frequently to update their wills.

 

Additionally, only he went to see a financial advisor too!

 

Seems on he knows what's in it,

and for some reason doesn't want anyone else to know.

 

Yes the business does generate a huge income,

the ex also invoices this company from his own self employment,

is that legal?

[Ethel Street]

We may be getting to the point where the only advice that can be given here is that you need to consult a solicitor (and not the one one advising your ex - they would refuse to act for you if they are advising your ex as they'd have a professional conflict of interest).

 

There may well be a genuine later Will, a Will that has been signed and witnessed. You don't know. I don't know how many options you have for finding out. Neither you nor your children are next of kin - your ex and his sister are. In general an Executor is not required to provide a copy of the Will to anyone, not even the beneficiaries, until Probate is granted. Once Probate is granted it becomes a public document.

 

It's impossible to answer the question about your ex "invoices this company from his own self employment" without a lot more information. Not automatically illegal. Not automatically legal.

[maddiemay]

Whilst I was out this evening the ex's very tearful sister contacted my son (his auntie obviously)

 

 

admitted she knows things aren't being done properly

but she's apparently scared of the ex and does what he says (oh how I know that feeling well)

 

The grandchildren,

the sister and the friend have arranged a time and date to get together and ask to see the will and why he hasn't applied for probate yet.

That seems like the correct thing to do,

rather than going straight in with accusations and solicitors.

 

The sister told my son,

they have both had money from an ISA so that explaines the large deposit in his account.

Not sure if that money formed part of the estate and shouldn't have been taken until probate has been granted,

I guess it should be frozen just like all the other accounts.

 

It's a relief to know they're all in agreement that there's something dodgy going on,

obviously I have my own reasons for mis trusting him but they are his blood relations!

 

There is always the possability of course that the sister has jumped ship now she knows my son and the friend are on to them

, but having known her for 25 years I do believe she is being manipulated by him just like I was for over 20 years.

We'll know in a few days if a solicitor needs to be consulted.

 

Thanks for all your advice, it's been really helpful.

[Mr.P]

We'll know in a few days if a solicitor needs to be consulted.

 

If (when) you do consult a solicitor, seek out one that is experienced in contentious probate. Your average high street firm may well be out of their depth and unfamiliar with the subject. Be warned though, it can get to be very expensive and drawn out process if legal action is required.

 

[back story] I handled probate a couple of years back, and there were distant rumblings of an Inheritance Act claim. Unfortunately, the solicitor concerned tried to bamboozle me with irrelevant case law, so I suggested he studied a few other cases rather than relying on opinions of reporters in the tabloids. Managed to bump up his client's bill over the next few months in the process.

[maddiemay]

Thank you Mr P, I can well imagine it would be a costly issue but knowing my ex as I do I don't think it will come to that, he's no criminal mastermind and in all honesty this is where my involvement ends, not being part of the family anymore. I'm just glad it's come to light and my son will hopefully get what his grandad wanted him to have.

[king12345]

I would take official copies of death certificate to the banks to freeze all the accounts (if there's anything left).

Then the friend can register for probate using the only will that you know for sure exists and of which he's the executor.

If there's a later valid will it will come to light, but with the "unsigned" story, I'm thinking that it's all a bluff and the executor/friend holds the only valid will.

Maybe too late to recover the money from bank accounts, but there's a lot more assets from what you said and they belong to the grandchildren.

If after probate you get trouble from the ex, then you will need a specialised solicitor.

Be very aware of forged signatures in any later will that might appear at one point.

[BazzaS]

Be very aware of forged signatures in any later will that might appear at one point.

 

The testator's signature must be witnessed by at least 2 witnesses who cannot be beneficiaries.

[maddiemay]

The last will wasn't signed. I have known him to forge his fathers signature, and that was for court documents (long story, but plodder tom helped us at the time, although obviously not the fact that the signature was forged)

 

I don't believe he is executor on the signed or unsigned will, otherwise, why not apply for probate?

[king12345]

The testator's signature must be witnessed by at least 2 witnesses who cannot be beneficiaries.

 

£100 to people in financial trouble and no fixed address make them sign anything, including a fake will.

 

The last will wasn't signed. I have known him to forge his fathers signature, and that was for court documents (long story, but plodder tom helped us at the time, although obviously not the fact that the signature was forged)

 

I don't believe he is executor on the signed or unsigned will, otherwise, why not apply for probate?

 

Because he hasn't got a valid will.

The executor friend of the last known and signed will needs to apply for probate.

What is he waiting for???

[maddiemay]

The friend doesn't have a copy of the will. I know the name of the solicitor who FIL used, but not the name of the actual firm.

[honeybee13]

If he's still with the firm , you might be able to google the lawyer.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

£100 to people in financial trouble and no fixed address make them sign anything, including a fake will.

 

That'll work well if they are NFA : since they are required to put their address as part of their witnessing signatures, so an easy one to trip them up on!