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Employers giving cash tips to charity

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I wonder if anyone could answer a query about tips.

 

 

My brother in law is working this weekend at a famous racecourse parking cars for the attendees of the racing.

He is working as a temp for an agency.

He was told he would get an hourly rate plus he could receive tips.

 

 

Whilst working the supervisors (not from the employment agency) have told him any cash tips must be handed in and will be given to a charity.

He wants to be honest and has sometimes been given tips of £20 in cash but has to hand in. Is this legal?

 

It is virtually minimum wage and the tips (which really was part of the bargain when he accepted the job) would have made doing this worthwhile.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

 

Thank you

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Hide the tips and hand a fiver at the end of shift.

Tips are not accountable, so pocket them.

If you don't, the charity won't see a penny of it anyway.

And even if the charity got something, only the directors would benefit from it.

Keep the tips, they're yours.

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So your brother was employed by the racecourse via an agency and the racecourse on the day informed everyone that all tips received must be handed to them to be given to Charity.

 

Have they spoken with the Agency on this issue?

 

Were they told which Charity?

 

Have a look at this link: https://www.gov.uk/tips-at-work/tips-and-tax


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I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Hide the tips and hand a fiver at the end of shift.

Tips are not accountable, so pocket them.

If you don't, the charity won't see a penny of it anyway.

And even if the charity got something, only the directors would benefit from it.

Keep the tips, they're yours.

 

Whilst I can find some sympathy with some of the reasoning behind this advice, I am afraid that I must disagree with it. Not least because of the overly jaundiced and inaccurate depiction of charities. Charities do exceptional work in this country and abroad, supporting the most vulnerable and combatting poverty, ignorance and disease. It is absolutely untrue that giving money to charity is pointless because only the directors benefit from it. If you have personal knowledge of any charity where the charitable donations are syphoned off to the directors, please report it to the Charity Commission. If you are objecting to people being paid to do their jobs, then I suggest you stop and think about what you are suggesting - that employees shouldn't be paid?

 

I want to be very clear about this - regardless of what the agency has said, the client and owner of the car park and its services have told the workers (and presumably the people parking their cars) that any "tips" go to charity (which may explain why some people would be willing to tip £20!). "Pocketing the money" as suggested constitutes very possibly theft and misrepresentation. There is no "right" to receive tips, and the client has made it very clear what is to happen if someone gives them cash. And in case you think nobody will find out, remember that these places are full of CCTV. On a temporary basis, he might think it worth the risk of trying to get away with theft - I wouldn't advise it. It might not matter much if he gets sacked from a casual contract. It might matter more when the news about a thief gets around all the agencies and nobody wants to touch him with a bargepole. It might matter more if the police are called in. It might matter more when HMRC are called in and he ends up with a tax bill that they have estimated based on the tips he took - a bill he will pay one way or another.

 

If the only reason that someone considers taking a minimum wage job is because of the tips, then frankly, he shouldn't have taken the job. Whilst he might be lucky and get given quite a lot of money (which he then steals), he also might be given nothing - thus making it not worth doing the job.

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Whilst I can find some sympathy with some of the reasoning behind this advice, I am afraid that I must disagree with it. Not least because of the overly jaundiced and inaccurate depiction of charities. Charities do exceptional work in this country and abroad, supporting the most vulnerable and combatting poverty, ignorance and disease. It is absolutely untrue that giving money to charity is pointless because only the directors benefit from it. If you have personal knowledge of any charity where the charitable donations are syphoned off to the directors, please report it to the Charity Commission. If you are objecting to people being paid to do their jobs, then I suggest you stop and think about what you are suggesting - that employees shouldn't be paid?

 

I want to be very clear about this - regardless of what the agency has said, the client and owner of the car park and its services have told the workers (and presumably the people parking their cars) that any "tips" go to charity (which may explain why some people would be willing to tip £20!). "Pocketing the money" as suggested constitutes very possibly theft and misrepresentation. There is no "right" to receive tips, and the client has made it very clear what is to happen if someone gives them cash. And in case you think nobody will find out, remember that these places are full of CCTV. On a temporary basis, he might think it worth the risk of trying to get away with theft - I wouldn't advise it. It might not matter much if he gets sacked from a casual contract. It might matter more when the news about a thief gets around all the agencies and nobody wants to touch him with a bargepole. It might matter more if the police are called in. It might matter more when HMRC are called in and he ends up with a tax bill that they have estimated based on the tips he took - a bill he will pay one way or another.

 

If the only reason that someone considers taking a minimum wage job is because of the tips, then frankly, he shouldn't have taken the job. Whilst he might be lucky and get given quite a lot of money (which he then steals), he also might be given nothing - thus making it not worth doing the job.

 

My mum's neighbour has been a charity director all of his life.

His lifestyle has always been luxurious, fast new cars every year, many holidays, fine dining, expensive jewellery and top notch furniture, all paid via the charity.

I personally know a charity director on £80k plus benefits plus bonuses.

This is all legal and pointless to report.

It might be morally wrong, but as long as they pay tax on their earnings, directors can pay themselves any wage.

Not much goes to the cause, this is a fact that everybody knows about but nothing can be done to stop it.

Yes, out of the hundred of millions given to charities every year, a small percentage goes to the cause.

£10 million sounds like a lot of money, but would you still give to a charity raking in £500 million if you knew about it?

The op's brother would need to declare the tips to HMRC and pay tax on them, no doubt about it, but are we sure that keeping the tips is theft?

They've been told by the agency, their employer, to keep the tips: Would the police take any action?

No!

It's the same as being given a job at a till in a supermarket on £10/hr and then being told on the day that the game has changed to a lesser amount.

Isn't this a breach of contract?

In such a scenario many caggers would start advising to start legal action against the employer for breach of contract, but because the word "charity" has been thrown in, then it's fine to avoid playing by the rules of their own contract.

Sorry, I have no sympathy or faith in any charity and organisation slaving off employees pretending to give their earnings to charity.

These companies have hero status because of their claim of giving to charity but the matter is that tips are hard cash, difficult to account for and the little given to charity is tax deductable.

I bet that the final sum on the day given to charity is way less than what's collected in tips, but because is still a large amount, then it's fine and the company is elevated to a hero status as said.

Anyone could start a charity and pay themselves a £1million in wages, this is perfectly legal, immoral but legal.

There have been a lot of articles in the past about this but somehow we tempt to forget.

After all it's for charity.

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My mum's neighbour has been a charity director all of his life.

His lifestyle has always been luxurious, fast new cars every year, many holidays, fine dining, expensive jewellery and top notch furniture, all paid via the charity.

I personally know a charity director on £80k plus benefits plus bonuses.

This is all legal and pointless to report.

It might be morally wrong, but as long as they pay tax on their earnings, directors can pay themselves any wage.

Not much goes to the cause, this is a fact that everybody knows about but nothing can be done to stop it.

Yes, out of the hundred of millions given to charities every year, a small percentage goes to the cause.

£10 million sounds like a lot of money, but would you still give to a charity raking in £500 million if you knew about it?

The op's brother would need to declare the tips to HMRC and pay tax on them, no doubt about it, but are we sure that keeping the tips is theft?

They've been told by the agency, their employer, to keep the tips: Would the police take any action?

No!

It's the same as being given a job at a till in a supermarket on £10/hr and then being told on the day that the game has changed to a lesser amount.

Isn't this a breach of contract?

In such a scenario many caggers would start advising to start legal action against the employer for breach of contract, but because the word "charity" has been thrown in, then it's fine to avoid playing by the rules of their own contract.

Sorry, I have no sympathy or faith in any charity and organisation slaving off employees pretending to give their earnings to charity.

These companies have hero status because of their claim of giving to charity but the matter is that tips are hard cash, difficult to account for and the little given to charity is tax deductable.

I bet that the final sum on the day given to charity is way less than what's collected in tips, but because is still a large amount, then it's fine and the company is elevated to a hero status as said.

Anyone could start a charity and pay themselves a £1million in wages, this is perfectly legal, immoral but legal.

There have been a lot of articles in the past about this but somehow we tempt to forget.

After all it's for charity.

I am not going to debate your jaundiced view of charities, because it is obviously pointless. You are wrong. Anyone cannot just start a charity and pay themselves £1 million in wages. But prejudice is impossible to argue with.

 

I am going to repeat this, because you are also wrong. The agency have no right to dictate to their client what happens on their premises and under their control. It doesn't matter a jot what the agency says. If the client and owner of the site says that tips are going to charity then they are going to charity, and diverting them from that purpose is theft. Pure and simple. Do you really believe that charities are dreadful but that the general public are kind enough to hand over £20 notes for a parking space tip? No. The people parking their cars clearly know that these tips are going to charity. If they thought they were going into the pocket of the worker, do you genuinely think that amounts like that would be handed over? As a tip?

 

There is no right to tips. There is no legal basis for keeping the money given in this way. And the consequences of following your advice would and could be disastrous for the person. To say nothing of immoral. If they want to steal money being knowingly donated to charity, they may as well mug the collector with a tin on the street corner. But regardless of whether the money goes to charity or not, the client and owner has said that all tips are to be handed over to them. There is no law that stops them from saying this, and if they want to pocket the lot (as some employers have done - it's been in the news often enough) they can. Anyone who ignores the instruction is committing theft - and there are consequences when caught. It is them up to them whether a couple of days tips are worth that risk. However, to be clear, the courts tend to deal harshly with people who steal from charities.

 

So the OP brother can follow my advice to do as instructed, or your advice to pocket the money - the consequences and the risks they are prepared to take are theirs. But few people, including future potential employers, would be impressed with a criminal record that included theft from a charity event.

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. Very mixed advice. The charity the tips are going to is the Injured Jockey's Club. The tippers are unaware that the tips are going to this charity. The agency is closed as a weekend.

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. Very mixed advice. The charity the tips are going to is the Injured Jockey's Club. The tippers are unaware that the tips are going to this charity. The agency is closed as a weekend.

 

That wouldn't change my advice - even if you are positive that the tippers haven't been told. And unless he has read everything they might have read and heard every announcement, you can't be certain they don't know. But the instruction is clear, and the agency can't overrule it. Their client will always be right - not just because they have the law on their side, but because the client's business is worth more to them than your brothers continued employment. If he disobey the instruction, the best outcome would be that he never works there again, and probably not for the agency ever again. That's a best outcome. It could be a lot worse.

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It will be down to the tipper to complain, they have the legal redress but it is very unlikely they will exercise it. Most would think it jolly decent for the staff to engage with the charities in this way rather than consider the fact they had no choice in the matter.

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Thanks again for replies. I feel this gets away from why people do tip, it is for good service and customer care. I also feel it is fundamentally wrong to mislead a worker over the conditions of work while they are giving up their bank holiday weekend. Bet the person who thought this up isn't on minimum wage.

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Thanks again for replies. I feel this gets away from why people do tip, it is for good service and customer care. I also feel it is fundamentally wrong to mislead a worker over the conditions of work while they are giving up their bank holiday weekend. Bet the person who thought this up isn't on minimum wage.

 

Probably not. But was there anywhere at all in the contract for this work that said he WOULD get tips, as opposed to COULD get tips? And he isn't "giving up his bank holiday weekend" - he wanted to work this weekend, and that is what he is doing. The wage - the amount of money that the agency agreed to pay him - is what he is entitled to. It is absolutely lawful for someone to say that tips must be handed over. If it's that big a deal, then either don't bother returning, or refuse the tips and then the charity won't get them either. But this isn't a sudden whim on behalf of the client - this will be planned in advance. So the agency should not have told him there would or could be tips unless they knew for a fact that would be the case. His issue is with them. The client agreed a price for a job with the agency, not a price plus tips. But obviously, he's at liberty to pocket the tips, provided he's also willing to take the risks that go alongside that action.

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It will be down to the tipper to complain, they have the legal redress but it is very unlikely they will exercise it. Most would think it jolly decent for the staff to engage with the charities in this way rather than consider the fact they had no choice in the matter.

 

Quite. In other instances where tips have been diverted, it has been the pressure by customers that has resulted in changes. In some cases. Not all. But in those cases it is also the fact that the tips have been kept by the employer.

 

The other thing that hasn't been factored into this discussion is that it is entirely possible that the regular staff have, in fact, suggested or agreed to this donation of money. The fact that a temporary worker doing a couple of days work wasn't informed of it wouldn't be a surprise. People generally don't consult casual staff. Many workplaces have fundraising events for charity which staff participate in, and we have no idea that the staff didn't organise this. All we actually know for a fact is that he's been told that tips must be handed over for donation to the charity.

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The first thing is to speak to the agency.

 

If he was told he would be getting tips, then I think it is perfectly reasonable for him to expect to be able to keep his tips.

 

I am in two minds about whether he should hand over tips at the end of the day. Part of me thinks he should keep them, as that is the basis on which he took the job and the agency do not have his consent to change the agreed terms of his contract. If he refuses to hand over tips that is a disciplinary issue the employer can take up with the agency - arguably theft but I think on balance probably not as theft requires 'dishonesty', and I think you could say he is not being dishonest. On the other hand he can be sacked very easily.

 

However if customers are told that tips would go to charity, then I definitely think they need to go to charity. If a customer tips you £20 on the basis that the money is going to charity, that money is really a donation to the charity rather than a personal tip.

 

Yes, out of the hundred of millions given to charities every year, a small percentage goes to the cause.

 

The accounts for charities, and details of number of people earning more than £60k, are publicly available. The average charity in the UK spends 78p of every £1 on charitable activities. The remaining 22p is spent on administration (such as director and employee salaries) and fund raising.

 

Of course that figure varies from charity to charity. Saying that you don't want to donate because money gets frittered away on administration is a poor excuse because you can easily look up how much any particular charity spends on administration before donating.


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The agency wont offer any help on this matter as I would place a bet on their munificance is one of the reasons they get the repeat business. As the BiL agreed to work for a set rate of pay they are getting what they expected to get. Many businesses dont let he staff receiving the tip keep it, most restaurants run a tronque where the tips are divided between front of house and kitchen in a fixed proportion, some use the tips to pay the wages (legal but any business that is in such a parlous state they need to do that is only a temp employer!). Some employers collect the tips and then do the necessary tax and NI calculations (minority I'm sure) so the rhetorical question is what does BiL want from this thread?

Disappointing that companies show their generosity with other people's money but I get that with every share I hold when the CEO of the company decides to donate to political organisations or the renumeration committee ignore the mandate from the floor and pays the undeserved bonus to the underperforming bosses anyway.

Basically he got the minimum he agreed to work for so he is no worse off for the lack of tips anyway.

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