Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I only just signed up to vote, I have never voted before, but I've never had a problem accsessing my credit file in previous years, it's like it's just been deleted?    Here's a message from another credit check place I found.   I have just moved in the last month but my bank account, new address etc are all up to date and I literally called everyone when I moved, internet, electric, gas, mobile contract, bank, everyone on the day I moved here,   When trying to get my credit report I use my new and previous addresses.   Here's a message I got ...... Why have I been unable to access my Credit Report? When completing the authentication process for access to your credit report, you will have received one of the following in-product messages to indicate why you have not received access: Thin File This means there is currently not enough credit history information held in your TransUnion file for us to produce a credit report. You can find out more about how to build your credit history in our guides. Not Found If you have not been found by TransUnion, this does not necessarily mean you do not have enough credit history or that you have poor credit history. This simply means that with the details you have provided, TransUnion have been unable to accurately match you to a credit file. Check over the details you have entered and make sure all financial accounts are up to date. If you notice that your Date of Birth, Name or Address have been filled in incorrectly, you can update this information on your account and this will initiate a new search with TransUnion to locate your credit data. Please note, a new search will only be initiated if you change your Date of Birth, Name or Address. Therefore, if you have since updated your information with public bodies or your financial accounts to match your current account information, we will be unable to initiate a new search and you may need to close your account and re-register. Failed If you have failed the authentication process then unfortunately we have been unable to provide you with your credit report. As per TransUnion policy, we are only able to provide customers with two attempts to access their credit file data, after which they will be unable to access their data through our service or receive a TotallyMoney credit report.  
    • I was going to suggest cooperating with her over the letter copies so as to look good in court, but on further consideration BazzaS & SuperVillain are right.   However, to make it easy for the judge and to show her up in court I would tweak the letter and add that this is the third time you've asked so that the expert can be "jointly instructed" and you are anxious to move things on as the two of you are already beyond the court's deadline.    You are writing to her but in a certain sense you're writing "to" the judge and what you are writing needs to be concise and follow the court's instructions - unlike her gibberish.  
    • Is there still chance to submit my defence as it is the 20th final date for submission?
    • you should have entered nothing.   this is why its so important to read instructions and other like threads carefully.    
    • As per 'post 20' you mention you do not file a defence so I entered defence to follow, should I have left blank??
  • Our picks

map890

Help! Small Claims Court against my mum, where does she stand?

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 852 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi All

 

Wondering if you can help, I just took a phone call from my mum who is stressing because someone is taking her to the small claims court. Here is the story, sorry it's very long but I will try to make it as concise as possible:

 

1. She owns a website which sells musical instruments. People can pay her to list their instruments on her site.

2. Someone approached her to sell an instrument for around £500. She was paid £35 listing fee, and listed the instrument on her site. It was described as damaged and to be sold as is, because it was. Seller dropped the instrument off at her house as she better located for pick-ups (nearer London)

3. Buyer bought the instrument blind - did not come to see it, against the (verbal) advice of my mum.

4. Buyer paid owner of instrument directly into his account. My mum did not see any other money other than the £35 listing fee. Buyer's husband picks the instrument up.

5. Buyer tries to return the instrument because it "won't hold tune", my mum advises that it was sold as is and she should not have bought it blind

6. Buyer becomes increasingly hostile and threatens to drop the instrument off with my mum's elderly neighbors. My mum is a bit WTF at this point and tells the buyer to seek refund from the guy who actually owned the instrument, as she didn't receive any money for it. Buyer is not having any of it and insists my mum is responsible.

7. At this point my mum thinks the woman is crazy and ignores further communications

8. My mum receives a notice for remediation and calls the mediator, explains the situation and that the buyer should take the problem up with the seller, but the mediator is not interested in hearing this, so my mum says that "mediation is pointless"

9. The next thing, a letter for the small claims court arrives, and the hearing is on the 30th.

 

I am wondering what her chances are of succeeding in small claims court are, and if anyone knows of any similar cases that we can read /bring to the hearing? In my opinion, this is a bit like someone trying to sue eBay over a listing for an item that is bought as spares or repair and sold as-is. The seller is responsible, not the agent - surely?

 

Thanks in advance all, my mum is extremely stressed out over this. I don't know why she left it till now to tell me. Anything anyone can advise is greatly appreciated.

Edited by map890

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please post the claim form and defence in pdf format.

 

Also where is her website and what are the T&Cs?

 

Has she been in contact with the seller?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi BankFodder

 

I have asked her to e-mail me the claim form now. She has not been in contact with the seller. I don't understand why - I think she just wanted to keep him out of it when she realised the buyer was nuts.

 

Should I post her website & T&Cs here?

 

 

Could it potentially cause problems with the court case if they found out I was posting on here?

 

Please see attached claim form, and advert as it appeared on the site.

The description comes from the seller, not my mum.

She did not write it.

 

I asked her about the holes in the neck of the instrument that are mentioned on the claim form.

She has emails from the seller that say it was like that when he purchased it, and does not affect the sound.

clain form.jpg

re harp advert.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well according to that advert it doesn't say damaged and sold as seen

 

 

you'll need to be careful here


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well according to that advert it doesn't say damaged and sold as seen

 

 

you'll need to be careful here

 

Yes, have seen that :(

 

Here are the T&Cs on her website.

I've replaced the name of her site with [WEBSITE] just in case. Maybe there is a way out of this for her on there:

 

The Owner, hereafter referred to as the “owner”, of itemized harp, agrees to the collection and transport of Harp, by “[WEBSITE]” hereafter referred to as the “Agency”.

 

Costs of travel and transport of harp are to be covered by agency and will be included in the commission fee as agreed between owner and agency.

 

Harp must be examined by agency on collection from owner and any marks and/or imperfections noted and agreed by owner and agency.

 

Details of work to be undertaken on harp to restore harp to playing condition will be confirmed in writing to owner of harp before such work is commenced.

 

Any major reconstruction or major repair work, namely new neck, new soundboard, re-riveting will be paid for by the owner of the harp.

 

 

This work will be carried out by “Munson and Harbour “, reputable harp restorers and repairers, of 119-123, Sandycombe Rd., Kew, Surrey, TW9 2EP

Re-stringing will be paid for by the owner.. This will be done by [WEBSITE] – using first quality Bow Brand gut strings and bass wires. Pirastro Bass Wires can be provided by special request and at added, agreed cost.

 

Service and regulation will be paid for by the owner. This work will be carried out by Munson and Harbour, as above.

 

It is understood and agreed that the price to be paid by the Owner for the repairs as set out in this contract is reflective of examination of the harp prior to disassembly.

 

 

Actual disassembly of the harp may reveal additional work which is necessary and/or advisable in order to restore the harp to fine playing condition.

 

 

In the event that a more detailed inspection after disassembly reveals the need or desirability for such work, [WEBSITE] will promptly notify the customer in writing of the additional work recommended to be done and the price therefore.

 

 

The owner shall, thereupon, either give the agency written authorization to proceed with such additional work or the written confirmation that the work should NOT be done with the understanding that the harp will not, therefore, be restored to good playing condition.

 

Whilst harp is stored at premises of agency the following terms and conditions shall apply:

a) agency will be responsible for maintenance of strings and replacement of broken strings at no additional cost to owner.

b) Harp must be stored away from heaters and radiators.

c) Harp must be stored out of direct sunlight.

d) Pedals must be kept in “flat” position when harp is not in use.

e) Harp must be maintained in tune at concert pitch – A= 440.

f) Harp will be stored in music room, the main door and windows of which are locked when not in use.

 

Viewing of harp by potential purchasers, whilst on premises of [WEBSITE], will be supervised at all times.

 

Potential purchasers of the harp shall be permitted to play harp and test its sound and playing quality on the premises of [WEBSITE]. They shall not be permitted to move the harp or remove it from the said premises.

 

Any final sale price negotiated by purchaser must be agreed by the owner. [WEBSITE] are not responsible for any financial loss or difference in estimated price and final selling price.

 

At all times whilst the harp hereinabove described is in the possession of [WEBSITE], the owner shall keep the same insured against all perils in the amount of at least the estimated commercial value of the instrument and shall pay the premiums thereon and keep such premiums paid during the continuance of this agreement until the sale of the harp by the agency or the return of the harp to the owner Insurance cover must be “All risks, worldwide” to insure harp whilst in transit from owner’s premises to agency premises and in transit to and from premises of harp repair workshop and to cover storage in harp repair workshop and agency premises.

 

[WEBSITE] shall take all reasonable care to protect the harp from loss or injury. However, the owner hereby releases, remisses and forever discharges [WEBSITE], its executors, and administrators from all actions, claims and demands which may hereafter be brought against it in connection with the harp herein described except as to such rights as are set forth in this agreement

 

In the event that the harp hereinabove described is lost or damaged through theft, fire, act of public enemies or act of God, or any other cause beyond the control of the agency, [WEBSITE] shall not be liable to the owner for such loss or damage except in the event that such loss results directly from the negligence of [WEBSITE], total liability shall not, in any event, exceed the sum of one thousand pounds sterling ( £1000.00) regardless

[WEBSITE] is not responsible or liable for providing a replacement harp, nor for the loss of income while itemized instrument is in our possession.

 

All monies due for repairs, servicing and otherwise restoring harp to good playing condition must be paid by owner before harp is released to purchaser.

 

Agency fee for Storage, Maintenance and sale of harp through [WEBSITE] is ten percent (10%) of final sale price of instrument.

This fee is to include all advertising and promotional material to promote sale of harp.

 

Final agency fee shall be paid by owner before harp is released to purchaser.

Final sale price, once negotiated is final.

[WEBSITE] cannot guarantee a fixed time period for sale of harp.

 

If after a reasonable period of time, harp has not sold and owner wishes to cancel agreement, all travel costs incurred by agency, repairs and string replacement fees must be paid in full by the owner.

 

All accessories and extra items included in sale of harp, such as travel covers, house covers, tuning keys, music stand, trolley etc must be itemized and listed on agreement contract.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is confusing.

 

In the blurb in post #5 is the 'Owner' the seller or the buyer? The way it reads it sounds like the seller, so it the above sounds like your mum has contracted herself to inspect and propose a price for repairing the harp...

 

What does the buyer actually see when they're looking at her website - is it the picture in post #3? If so, the ad specifically says that there is superficial damage which does not affect the sound, so is that true or not true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, should have been more specific

- these T&C's are all-encompassing for all services available on her site, of which there are different levels.

 

She is a professional harpist and when she is selling or renting harps out for other people she does contract herself out to inspect the instruments etc.

 

In some of these instances, she acts as an agent, and maintains the harps etc whilst they are in her care, and assists the 'owner' (seller) by arranging and transporting the harps for any repairs that are required, and she charges the owner as such.

 

This repair history would then also go on the listing so that potential buyers know that the instrument has recently had a new neck, for example.

 

In the case here, she was only listing the instrument on her site.

The harp in question is a Paraguayan harp, which are different to the ones my mum usually deals in, and building, repairing and even playing these types of harp requires different expertise.

 

When looking at her website, they see the advert in post 3, correct.

Yes there was superficial damage to the harp which does not affect the sound

- this statement was provided by the seller of the instrument, which he said came from a harp repairer. My mum has e-mails from him stating this.

 

Also

Just found a Disclaimer on her website:

Disclaimer of Liability

[WEBSITE] endeavours to ensure that the information contained within the [WEBSITE] Web site is correct but does not accept any liability for error or omission howsoever caused and whether by the negligence or omissions of [WEBSITE] or otherwise. Information, editorial, advertising, products and services provided by [WEBSITE] are provided on the basis that [WEBSITE] disclaims all warranties whether express or implied. Neither [WEBSITE] or the suppliers of information shall be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential loss of business profits or special damages.

 

“[WEBSITE]” and its executors and employees reserve the right to refuse any advert or any wording for such advert, for display on the website.

 

We also reserve the right to change any wording or delete wording that we deem unsuitable for professional or ethical reasons.

 

“[WEBSITE]” and its executors and employees cannot be held responsible for any wording posted by an individual in an advertisement on any part of the website, which may be deemed misleading or offensive, whether for professional, ethical or religious reasons.

 

Anything useful in here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like the claim form was issued on 23 January 2017.

 

When you are served with legal proceedings, you generally have 14 days to acknowledge service, and a further 14 days to file a defence. If the defendant does not acknowledge service or file a defence within those timescales, the court awards a 'default judgment' (also known as a CCJ).

 

As a hearing has been booked, your mother must have filed a defence. Do you know what the defence says?

 

The T&Cs you posted only talk about the conditions which apply between the owner and the harp company. It does not apply to sales. Do you know if the harp company has any terms of sale?

 

Ultimately, at the hearing a judge would have to look at the situation and decide whether a reasonable person would conclude that the harp was sold by

(1) the harp company, or

(2) by the underlying owner (e.g. like ebay).

 

 

As the harp company listed the harp on their website and spoke to the buyer, the default assumption will be that the harp company is the seller

- unless there is a clear statement saying that the harp company was only an agent for the underlying owner.

 

 

If the judge concludes that the harp company was the seller, and if the buyer is correct to say that the harp has a giant crack in it, I'm afraid the harp company will be liable to pay a refund.

 

Could it potentially cause problems with the court case if they found out I was posting on here?

 

 

No. We have open justice in this country.

The court process is mostly open.

 

 

Court filings are public documents and court hearings are open to the public.

 

 

You are perfectly entitled to post about the case on an internet forum if you wish.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Steampowered

 

I don't know what was in her defence - I have asked her to supply this info. Likewise I have asked her if she has any terms of sale.

 

Would a clear statement between my mum and the buyer via e-mail stating that she was only acting as an agent be enough?

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would a clear statement between my mum and the buyer via e-mail stating that she was only acting as an agent be enough?

Maybe, if the statement was clear enough.

 

I suspect your mother would also need to have told the buyer who the real seller was. If the buyer does not know who the real seller is and was never given his contact details, I suspect your mother's business will be liable.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe, if the statement was clear enough.

 

I suspect your mother would also need to have told the buyer who the real seller was. If the buyer does not know who the real seller is and was never given his contact details, I suspect your mother's business will be liable.

 

Hi Steampowered.

She definitely has done so, and I think she told me she has e-mail to support this.

 

Please see attached her defense which she has submitted...

 

Defence doc.pdf

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Defence is fairly clear to be honest. The claimant has no cause of action against the named Defendant. The named Defendant has not received any monies from the Claimant. The Claimant is aware of the identity of the correct Defendant.

 

What stage are these proceedings at now? Has the claim been transferred to a local county court and has that Court issued directions and a trial date?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the Defence is fairly clear to be honest. The claimant has no cause of action against the named Defendant. The named Defendant has not received any monies from the Claimant. The Claimant is aware of the identity of the correct Defendant.

 

What stage are these proceedings at now? Has the claim been transferred to a local county court and has that Court issued directions and a trial date?

 

Hi SuperVillain

Yes - it has been transferred to a court near where my mum lives. She has received the trial date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your mum will have to prepare to attend.

 

In a small claim this usually consists of sending to the Court and the Claimant any documents that she wants to rely upon together with a witness statement outlining her version of events, 14 days before the hearing.

 

HOWEVER such orders can vary between Courts so it's important that she reads what it says and complies with the specific directions handed down by the Judge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say, from your post, it is not clear to me whether (1) your mother was selling the harp, or (2) your mother was just acting a listing service.

 

You need to prove that it was number (2). If I was the judge, I think I would want to see a little more evidence to be convinced.

 

The court has presumably ordered that evidence on which each party intends to rely needs to be exchanged a certain number of days before the hearing?

 

If so, your mother needs to send any emails, a copy of the advert, print-outs of her website etc. - any document she intends to rely on - to the claimant by that deadline. She needs to provide as much as evidence as she can demonstrate that number (2) applies.

 

There is nothing to get too worried or stressed about. Small claims hearings are much less intimidating than your mum imagines. It isn't like being on TV. The worst case scenario is that the judge awards a refund and the minor court costs paid by the claimant, nothing worse than that.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...