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    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Cabot/Restons claimform - LLoyds debt, stayed/lifted twice - now theyve appealed!!***Claim Discontinued***


kafkabee
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Hello

 

About 4 years ago I received a claim from Cabot for a debt of about £26,000

- I say about because the figure has varied in their correspondence.

I made a CCA request and received no reply.

 

A couple of years later I was contacted by Restons who threatened me with court action if I did not pay up.

 

Restons took the case to court and I duly submitted my defence that they had not provided me with proof that I owed them any debt

- nothing further was heard for about 12 months, the case having been automatically stayed.

 

Restons then applied to have the stay lifted and applied to the court for a Pre-Judgement hearing which I attended in June of this year.

 

At the hearing the judge ordered that:

 

1. Unless the Claimant do file and serve copies of the following in 28 days, i.e. by 17 July 2017, the claim be struck out:

 

1.1 Credit Agreement between the Defendant and Lloyds TSB.

1.2 Default notices in relation to Credit Agreement.

1.3 Deed of Assignment between Lloyds TSB and the Claimant (and any preceeding assignments).

1.4 Notice to Defendant of any assignment.

 

2. Costs of today and the application be borne by the Claimant in any event.

 

3. Within 14 days of service upon him of all the documents above, the Defendant do file an amended Defence.

 

4. The application for summary judgement is dismissed.

 

5. Permission to appeal refused.

 

Restons have not provided me with copies of all the above documents.

 

However,

Restons have now made an application to appeal on the grounds that the judge erred.

They have been given permission to appeal

- the judge's order has been put on hold pending the appeal which is due to be heard this later this month.

 

I would be extremely grateful for any help as to how to proceed.

Do I need to attend the Appeal Hearing?

And if so what would I need to do?

 

It's only thanks to these forums that I have been able to defend this action so far.

Edited by kafkabee
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Well done for getting this far.

 

Your story is pretty much identical to mine.

 

Restons really are a bunch of idiots.

 

I would say yes, if the appeal is granted then attend.

 

In my experience the judges are getting pretty peed off with the way Restons operate.

 

If they truly had a case against you they should have got their act together 18months ago by the sound of it.

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10/10 well done both of you

restons are getting really desperate with cases that use info from CAG now.

 

yes you attend

might not be a bad idea to knock up a LiP costs sheet..

..what is it now £19p/h..

.judge might allow it as punishment.

.hopefully..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi,

yes that was the impression I got from the judge at the pre-judgement hearing.

 

The solicitor? at the hearing argued and interrupted the judge throughout the proceedings and she had to repeat herself a number of times, even telling him to be quiet.

 

The judge actually said

"You are wasting my time. And you are wasting the defendant's time".

The judge seemed to be pretty annoyed.

 

what I don't understand now though is how the judge could have got it so wrong - Restons have produced a list of grounds that the judge erred when making the order.

 

Restons have now been given permission to appeal the original judge's order.

Edited by kafkabee
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They not have he She sent anyway. Apart from what's already been said, that Ali e will kill the claim.

 

Cabot and restons saw the amount and ate rubbing their grubby hands.

 

Remember, Cabot don't chase Legit debts. They're bottom feeders

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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was it restons though themselves or a local rep?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I bet it wasn't.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Restons Grounds Of Appeal

 

Ground One - The judge erred in finding that the Respondent had a real prospect of successfully defending the claim and dismissing the claim for summary judgement.

 

Ground Two - The judge erred in making the order for specific inspection and disclosure of any default notice, it being irrelevant to the parties' pleaded cases.

 

Ground Three - The judge erred in making the order for specific disclosure and inspection of any default notice, it being a document that was not and had never been in the Appellant's control.

 

Ground Four - By making a peremptory order with which the Appellant could not comply, and by providing the sanction of having its claim struck out if it did not comply the judge acted such as to disproportionately and unjustly deprive the Appellant of a fair hearing of its claim.

 

Ground Five - The judge erred in refusing to permit the Appellant to make redactions to commercially sensitive parts of the deed of assignment, when those parts had the potential to damage the Appellant's business and were irrelevant to the matters issuing.

 

Ground Six - The judge made the costs order at paragraph 2 of her order without permitting the parties to make submissions, amounting to a procedural irregularity such that the order should be set aside.

 

Ground Seven - The judge erred in making the order that the Appellant be responsible for the costs of the application and the hearing in any event, given that the issue of a default notice was one that had never been raised before and on which the Appellant might sugsequently be vindicated.

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the deed shows how much they paid for the debt

typically

 

surprised the judge has demanded that be produced as it is commercially sensitive

 

oh and the rest can be ignored not relevant

the ones mentioning default notice are

they've taken this tact of recent in not mentioning default in the POC?

then they say you cant see it.

however a default notice or the lack of one in the prescribed terms of part 87 is fatal to their claim.

it must exist and be compliant under CCA

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

The CAG forums are awesome and amazing.

 

I should mention that I've also received another letter from Restons asking me to provide them with a 'Skeleton Argument' in advance of THEIR appeal.

 

The way I see it I don't have to communicate further with Restons.

I'm assuming that the Appeal Hearing will be taken up with Restons' submissions to the court and then I will be given the opportunity to make comments?

Is it acceptable for me to interject/object or do I have to wait for permission to speak?

 

At the pre-judgment hearing the judge without being explicit about it, indicated that it was in my interest at the time to actually say very little.

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Going by the reasons that the rep appealed against , it feels of absolute desperation and has all the tell tale signs of a very desperate solicitor for hire

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Yes, cheers and thanks to the info on the CAG forums I was able to keep going with this. But, it hasn't been pleasant over the years with the harassing letters and phone calls, etc. something the judge acknowledged at the pre-judgement hearing. The judge made a point of the length of time this has been going on.

 

I would love to know more about Ground Five.

 

Goodness me they are bullies!

 

Is it appropriate to ask for examples of what makes up each ground for appeal???

 

Perhaps other forum members can advise?

 

[Ground Five - The judge erred in refusing to permit the Appellant to make redactions to commercially sensitive parts of the deed of assignment, when those parts had the potential to damage the Appellant's business and were irrelevant to the matters issuing.]

 

Restons submit that:

 

"After the judge had resolved to make paragraph 1 of her order, it was requested that the Appellant be permitted to redact commercially sensitive parts of the deed of assignment. This was refused.

 

The disclosure of commercially sensitive information, which might for example include the price paid on the assignment, does not assist the parties and wider knowledge and dissemination of such information may plainly risk injury to its business.

 

Such information is irrelevant and ought not to be ordered to be disclosed in any event, and the judge was wrong to do so."

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Regarding continued calls and letters, have a read of Harrison vs link

 

Reg

 

adding their will retort about deeds, a judge can request it to ensure the debt is indeed valid.

 

 

How on earth they can say it's detrimental to their business is laughable and reminds me of a shady United States lawyer trying to pull a fast one on a judge

  • Confused 1

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Regarding continued calls and letters, have a read of Harrison vs link

 

Thank you I'll have a read of that.

 

oh and the rest can be ignored not relevant

the ones mentioning default notice are

they've taken this tact of recent in not mentioning default in the POC?

then they say you cant see it.

however a default notice or the lack of one in the prescribed terms of part 87 is fatal to their claim.

it must exist and be compliant under CCA

 

Thanks dx - and at the hearing the rep referred to what he called my "rubbishy defence."

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As restons always do

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Judge directs

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok, cheers.

 

Well done for getting this far.

 

Your story is pretty much identical to mine.

 

Restons really are a bunch of idiots.

 

I would say yes, if the appeal is granted then attend.

 

In my experience the judges are getting pretty peed off with the way Restons operate.

 

If they truly had a case against you they should have got their act together 18months ago by the sound of it.

 

beatrestons thanks - how did your Restons story end?

 

[edit] ah sorry - the clue to the answer to that question seems to be in your username.

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Thank you I'll have a read of that.

 

Thanks dx - and at the hearing the rep referred to what he called my "rubbishy defence."

 

They're sols for.hire.

They don't care if the debts legit or not.

They just want their share of the amount on that paper.

 

 

As you've seen, they'll stoop to any level to try and get it.

Even though it is not legally enforceable.

The judge knows that.

He's even called them out..but restons being restons They're saying the judge is wrong.

 

To me it sounds like the judge is very clued up on Cabot and restons and their tricks so he's making them dig a hole for themselves. And theyre too dumb to realise it.

 

Also Remember, Cabot don't chase enforceable debts.

So you know what to do now.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Ok, cheers.

 

beatrestons thanks - how did your Restons story end?

 

[edit] ah sorry - the clue to the answer to that question seems to be in your username.

 

Spot on, the clue is in the name :). They chased us for £3K.

 

We owed Halifax £7K, set up a DMP with Stepchange and fully paid off the £7K.

During the 12 years of the DMP Halifax charged £3K in interest, despite promises not to etc.

 

After the DMP ended they passed the 'debt' around the houses and then it ended up in Cabot's hands.

 

To cut a long story short we had the usual letters from Reston's, and the claim which we defended. It was stayed.

 

A year later Reston's applied to have the stay lifted and their intention was to request the judge to strike out our defence bla bla bla. A hearing date was set.

 

They sent a barriste, to represent them.

Pretty intimidating and was trying to make deals with us immediately prior to the hearing to get us to pay the £3K so we 'woulndnt be wasting the judges time'.

 

At the first hearing the judge requested more info from Reston's within 8 weeks, set a new hearing date and berated them for delays, being poorly organised and not putting it through the small claims system.

 

At the second hearing they couldn't produce the info but said it was because it was over Christmas and requested more time so another hearing was set for 4 weeks later.

 

Meanwhile we had finally got more info from Halifax including recorded phone conversations but there were SERIOUS gaps.

 

At the third hearing we attended, they didn't show up.

At this point we took advantage of some free advice from a solicitor.

 

He wrote them a letter detailing all the things they had done wrong

, processes they had not followed,

gaps in their evidence and suggested they go away.

 

They sent a letter back saying they had decided to no longer chase the debt.

 

Great outcome in the end but so much hassle to get to that point.

We used annual leave so we could attend court,

weekends were spent going through statements, letters, preparing evidence.

 

Ultimately though Cabot/Restons lost out as they would have spent a lot of money fighting it. Pillocks!

Edited by fkofilee
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Brilliant. Thanks for your reply.

 

Welcome to the lawful dystopia of RestonLand.

 

When our nightmare started and then intensified over a 4 year period we weren't really sure how to proceed beyond making the CCA request which Cabot and Restons have never responded to.

 

Obviously I'm hoping that the judge will chuck their appeal out as they have not complied with the original judge's order.

 

However, I still have this nagging feeling of uncertainty about the outcome.

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The CCA request to our creditor helped us the most.

 

We then did one to Cabot requesting details of internal communications between Halifax/Cabot/Restons. That was fun reading! Panic and gaps.

 

From what you have said it SHOULD all be OK

, but I know what you mean about the uncertainty.

 

Hope you get a judge who wants to kick their immoral arses.

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