The Health and Work conversation coming to an ESA claim near you soon!

[speedfreek]

So with the imminent closure of numerous Job Centre Plus offices around the country, there will also be the rollout of the new spangley, fandangley and utterly spiffing Health and Work Program.

 

iirc as well as being mandatory for all WRAG, it will also encompass mandating people in the Support Group to appointments for a discussion on how they can help.

 

Amazingly 'by leaving me alone to get better' is seen as to negative by the DWP Nudge Unit so we're all about to have to have something called a Health n Work conversation at one of the few (harder to get to) JCP offices remaining.

 

All you need to know is encompassed in this Rightsnet thread on the subject https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/11020

 

Apologies to Mr Manville for completely bastardising and ripping off his good work but it's for a good cause

[reallymadwoman]

Interesting to note that the system, like that for claiming PIP, only allows for contact with claimants via the phone.

 

Also interesting to note that they are relying on a description of the claimant's condition presumably copied from a fit note to decide how ill they are and if they might be exempt or need a deferral. Given that an apparently straightforward diagnosis, e.g. depression, could cover anything from mild to suicidal, I'm not convinced that is a robust system.

 

Nearly 10 years after ESA was first introduced, DWP have still not got their heads around the fact that not all disabled people can use the phone because ......wait for it ..... roll the drums .....some disabled people have a disability!!!!!! It really is appalling and severly penalises some claimants - for example, the guidance says that if they can't make contact by phone they should write to the claimant, the letter no doubt being despatched via their usual abysmal delivery service which takes 4 - 6 days, but only gives the claimant 7 days to respond, presumably by carrier pigeon since that's likely to be the only way fast enough.

 

Just thinking also that if the reason they couldn't reach the claimant by phone was that they were in hospital, then there's a pretty good chance of someone being sanctioned for failure to attend when they didn't even get the appointment.

[Sparks_]

I thought they couldn't mandate those in the support group to do anything?

[reallymadwoman]

These things supposedly take place before you're put in a group and therefore when they have no idea of how sick/disabled you are nor how likely you are to improve, they should be done at about 4 weeks into a new claim.

 

I do wonder how long it will be before existing claimants are 'invited' to participate.

[down'n'out]

I thought they couldn't mandate those in the support group to do anything?

 

The HWC is about being able to mandate new ESA claiments to a WFI before the claiment is placed into a group(before the WCA), or put another way, to be able to sanction ESA claiments ealier.

[tomtom256]

The HWC is about being able to mandate new ESA claiments to a WFI before the claiment is placed into a group(before the WCA)' date=' or put another way, to be able to sanction ESA claiments ealier.[/quote']

 

Or a novel idea perhaps it's so they can review the illness to stop further unnecessary intervention down the line.

[down'n'out]

Or a novel idea perhaps it's so they can review the illness to stop further unnecessary intervention down the line.

 

"Review the illness" should not be made by a work coach/JCP (NOTE: The illness does not need to be discussed, giving such information by the claiment cannot be mandated)

[tomtom256]

"Review the illness" should not be made by a work coach/JCP (NOTE: The illness does not need to be discussed' date=' giving such information by the claiment cannot be mandated)[/quote']

 

I didn't mean medically, review can mean numerous things.

 

As in the work coach meets the person, looks at the reason the person is claiming as it's already on the system, so they already know why you are claiming anyway, so that they can better advise the customer and maybe not waste future time calling that person in for pointless activities when say they claim for example a brain injury etc were improvement is pretty much not going to happen. Get it sorted from the outset and it solves a lot of the current issues.

 

Alternatively we could just pay out with no checks conducted?

[down'n'out]

As in the work coach meets the person, looks at the reason the person is claiming as it's already on the system, so they already know why you are claiming anyway, so that they can better advise the customer and maybe not waste future time calling that person in for pointless activities when say they claim for example a brain injury etc were improvement is pretty much not going to happen. Get it sorted from the outset and it solves a lot of the current issues.

 

At such an early stage of claim, there may be no full diagnosis. Possibly a case of needing referal to hospital for tests/scans etc. The esa1 form only asks for a brief description of the illness, because it may not be fully known what the illness is.

 

When ESA claiments are mandated to attend a WFI, it has already be determined by the WCA that the probability is that they are able to attend.

When a new ESA claiment is mandated to attend an HWC, it may be a case they have not even been given a diagnosis of the illness.

[tomtom256]

At such an early stage of claim, there may be no full diagnosis. Possibly a case of needing referal to hospital for tests/scans etc. The esa1 form only asks for a brief description of the illness, because it may not be fully known what the illness is.

 

When ESA claiments are mandated to attend a WFI, it has already be determined by the WCA that the probability is that they are able to attend.

When a new ESA claiment is mandated to attend an HWC, it may be a case they have not even been given a diagnosis of the illness.

 

In which case they are technically fit to attend, it's all semantics to be fair.

[carly123]

I was placed in the support group of esa because the job centre stressed me out so much that i can't even go in a job centre now,so there was now way that i could have attended a WHC and the work coaches don't decide if people are entitled to esa.

[reallymadwoman]

In which case they are technically fit to attend, it's all semantics to be fair.

 

Except that medically qualified people say they're not - there are many, many people only 4 weeks into an ESA claim who would not gain any benefit from such an interview and could be harmed by even trying to attend.

[Nystagmite]

Am I having deja vu here or did they do something similar when ESA was introduced and then scrapped it?

 

is the person going to be medically trained too? I remember when I applied for ESA, I was asked what conditions were listed on my fit note. Unbelievably, (I have a few rare ones) the chap asked me what Autism was...

[reallymadwoman]

They are in fact using the legislation from when ESA was first introduced to do these interviews and Nystagmite is correct, they did do what was called a 'work focused interview' then immediately after the WCA so presumably they had some idea how likely a return to work might be. They were scrapped almost immediately.

[tommy456]

The DWP and it's assumption that everyone has a telephone and internet access is quite a dumb assumption IMO some don't have /want either

 

As for this H&W conversation it's nothing more than a way of sanctioning the sick

[Nystagmite]

There's an assumption here that everyone can use a phone. As someone with hearing and speech difficulties, (I do talk and hear, just not as well as I should) I try to avoid the phone as much as I can.

[speedfreek]

There's an assumption here that everyone can use a phone. As someone with hearing and speech difficulties, (I do talk and hear, just not as well as I should) I try to avoid the phone as much as I can.

 

I'm the same just for different reasons!

 

Problem is...... it takes 4 years to bring an Equality Case as far as a Judicial Review judgement.....

 

HMRC have just been done by JR for forcing an internet only service after a 4 year discrimination/equality case.

 

4 more years before they comply with the judgement!

 

So given the outrage over no sound from the bell called Big Ben for 4 years I expect nothing

 

Christopher Walken to play me in the movie

[speedfreek]

More nudge Unit bull**** by Penny Mordaunt in Parliament

 

http://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-10-09/debates/663D409E-46BA-4DEA-BCDB-B9E4484C0A04/HealthAndWorkProgramme#contribution-69E18DAA-C306-479A-98C5-551C51EE865D

 

List by region of awarded HWP contracts.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/touchbase-dwp-news-about-work-working-age-benefits-and-services/october-2017-touchbase-edition-122

 

9. Providers announced for the Work and Health Programme

The Minister of State for Disabled People, Health and Work, Penny Mordaunt, has announced the 6 providers for the new Work and Health Programme.

 

Area Successful provider

Central England - Shaw Trust

North East Reed - In Partnership

North West - Ingeus

Southern - Pluss

Home Counties - Shaw Trust

Wales Remploy

 

Local government partners in London and Greater Manchester have been given funding under devolution deals and are selecting their own providers.

 

In Scotland, funding for employment programmes for unemployed and disabled people was devolved in line with the Scotland Act.

 

The Work and Health Programme is not available in Northern Ireland.