Arrow/Shoos SPR claim - 1997 M+S card debt **CLAIM DISMISSED**

[dx100uk]

d1 looks to have the end missing

[As905]

Thnx for spotting that.

Not sure how I managed to lose that last line.

Now corrected.

 

Can see what you mean about posters getting things wrong which can influence results.

 

Do you think that is enough to be able to send to the court during the week.

 

Do I need to send a copy to Shoosmiths also?

 

Don't see it mentioned in the guidance notes that I should, but thought I'd ask you just to be sure.

[dx100uk]

no the clerk takes care of that.

don't forget you can email it.

 

if I remember the SPC right I think they then have 14 days I think once they have it

 

go check read the attachments in this sticky

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476735-The-Simple-Prodedure-Rules-For-Claims-Under-£5k-in-Scotland-From-Nov-2016(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[As905]

Thanks so much for your help so far.

We have a very poor broadband service due to living in a rural area, and sometimes lose it for days especially in weather like just now.

Something to do with it being an overhead cable and being 8 k from the exchange.

So I'm reluctant to use email for this.

 

Will certainly go and read up on the sticky you linked to.

Hopefully Arrow won't be able to produce a signed copy of this CCA.

 

I'm slightly encouraged that they won't as I recently asked RBS for one from around the same time i.e. 1996 ( another account which has been sold by RBS) and they sent back a generic blank agreement with made up info on it for credit limit, and penalty charges which are obviously from around 2011/12.

So fingers crossed.

[dx100uk]

I would email it say Monday or Tuesday.

ask for them, which they do anyway

to send you an ack that they have received it and are happy with it

relate to your location and the flaky internet

 

if yo don't get an ack

then snail mail it weds

 

here is a link that will show you like claims

although English it will give you an idea of their MO

 

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=M%2BS+claimform+arrow&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=M%2BS%20claimform%20arrow&gsc.page=1

 

just remember that Scottish SPR is very much more relaxed than the English system.

[As905]

Ok thanks will try that.

 

 

Had a look through some of the threads you kindly provided a link for,

 

I noticed in one thread, Arrow Global eventually turned up a signed agreement from 1989,

but unfortunately the poster didn't continue with the thread,

so couldn't read how ithe case worked out in the end.

 

Hoping that won't happen in my case,

but realise this is just the start of the process,

and Shoosmiths won't give up easily.

 

The initial thread you gave me a link to ,

has been great and also gives an idea of how Shoosmiths might approach this,

with further advice on how to try and respond.

 

Must admit I'm not looking forward to this,

but trying hard to keep things in perspective for now,

and not get too anxious about it.

 

Thanks again for all your help and will post up as things proceed.

[dx100uk]

don't be thinking its a big deal.

most of the cases are held informally in a small room or low court room

[As905]

Got a response from the court .

 

Sheriff wants to hold a case management meeting.

Pdf of letter received attached.

 

He has asked Arrows to provide copy of documents 7 days prior to case management date which is beginning of November.

 

He also sounds very keen that we should sort this outside of his court , although I could be misreading things.

sherresp.pdf

[dx100uk]

Good news for you then

I can't ever see those documents appearing so they'll most probably vacate the hearing or wriggle to get it sisted or postponed for 6 MTS as that other SPC case here already

 

Pers I'd do nothing

[As905]

Hopefully the documents won't materialise.

Not sure to what lengths Shoosmiths will go to win a case.

 

Suppose it depends on costs .

From reading the other SPC thread I take it, it I still have to attend even if documents not received.

 

Thanks so much for your help so far,

I'm sure I will need some more advice in the very near future on this.

[dx100uk]

I doubt they'll cough

Sheriff will kill it without you even going

[As905]

Court date in a couple of days and still no sign of an agreement or anything else.

 

they haven't complied with the Sheriffs instructions.

 

Are they going to try and spring an agreement on me on the day or are they going to try and argue the case without the paperwork.

 

Should I phone the court and ask for advice, or just turn up and see what happens.

 

Bit worried I might be led by the nose into something by their lawyers due to my lack of knowledge here.

[dx100uk]

they cant produce anything in court

not allowed

 

you cant ask clerks for legal advise...

 

however theres nowt to stop you ringing the clerk and confirming that they haven't complied to the court either

 

the clerk might well say they will check with the sheriff

and they'll be no need to attend has he will ex proprio motu (at his instance) [dismiss the claim ]

 

often happens

 

dx

 

 

dx

[As905]

Called the clerk today and as you suggested

 

explained I hadn't received the documents requested, and asked if they had been lodged with the court.

 

Told they haven't been, and the clerk said the solicitors might bring them on the day.

 

Which doesn't seem fair to me.

 

Clerk told me it's quite a common occurrence for documents not to be lodged on time, which surprised me, but he didn't seem too bothered by it.

 

Just my luck .

 

So court on Friday and we'll see what happens.

[dx100uk]

and if you ring again you'll get a different answer from someone else

they cant just turn up and produce no

you object and the sheriff will agree.

but I doubt they will

[As905]

My luck to get a disinterested clerk.

 

Take it I can say I need to see the signed document for clarification,

and if they turn up with documents I haven't seen say I haven't had enough time to examine and understand them or something along those lines.

[dx100uk]

I doubt they'll turn up

twill be a local rep standing in I bet.

 

they wont get anything for a 1997 agreement nor the correct T&C

they usually try the old trick of providing the application form which don't wash anyway. as its not CCa compliant

[As905]

at court yesterday, the management meeting was held in a court, full of people.

Had to sit through a load of council housing hearings first before they started on Arrow Global cases.

 

Glad I didn't realise beforehand, it would be such a public meeting, as I'd have been really nervous.

No sign of Shoosmiths, just a solicitor who was handling other cases that day.

 

Took the judge 2 minutes to explain that the case would be delayed for 6 weeks, as Arrow Global didn't have the paperwork, and without it there wasn't much to talk about, and it was very important they had it, so it could be looked at and discussed.

 

need to go back, then.

Next time round I will ask her to throw it out if they have nothing, unless you advise otherwise.

 

Considered doing it yesterday for a moment, but my gut instinct advised otherwise.

Sheriff as very nice, she was indirectly giving a man advice on another subject not related to Consumer Law.

[dx100uk]

no you push to get it dismissed

well done

[As905]

Thnx for your help and support so far, could never have dared attend a court without it.

[dx100uk]

yea its never as daunting as you think

and 9/10 the sheriff is on your side as they love to see a LiP that's putting up a fight against these fleecers

it gives them a bit of variance than the normal LiP that doesn't do their homework and fails because they simply don't put them to strict proof to prove their claim

and ofcourse the sheriff cant 'prompt' the claimant to ask for a CCA request etc...

 

there are some 800'000 claims issued across the UK every years

85% are never contested

[As905]

Have received a numbered bundle of paperwork from Shoosmiths with a letter asking me to to let them know my position nowthye have sent documents and any settlement figure I might want to make prior to next case management hearing.

 

My scanner has packed up just now,

but the documents comprise a signed application form,

no sign of any prescribe terms or agreed credit limit, interest rate applicable or any terms or conditions,

 

a load of statements ( but not from when account was opened, they start a few years later) and the Assignment Note.

No Default Notice.

 

There is also statements from when Arrow Global took over the account and I notice they have added fees for Shoosmith onto the account balance.

Is this allowed.

 

Any advice meantime much appreciated while I try to get this scanner fixed.

[dx100uk]

read upload use a camera phone or alike

but sounds like its bog roll

[As905]

Have upladed Shoosmith letter and Application form

they say is the credit agreement.

the quality isn't great.

 

it is an application form which must have been filled out by a shop assistant but is signed by me.

 

It does show repayment terms contrary to what I previously said but has no interest rate shown anywhere.

 

The other documents are just typewritten printed sheets showing transactions on account, but they start a few years after account was opened.

 

Am now concerned that Shoosmiths are going to clobber with me with hundreds of pounds of legal fees, as one of their sheets shows them adding legal fees to the account balance.

 

Copies of the rest of what Shoosmiths have sent as listed in their Evidence form. No terms or conditions provided.

 

They have used Form 10a - List of Evidence form , first part of pdf above, imagine they have now sent them to the court . They were sent recorded delivery to me.

shoosmithspapers.pdf

application ford.pdf

[dx100uk]

All of it

T&cs are important