Backdoor PRA CCJ - Old LLoyds Credit Card Debt - sent to pulled down house site!!

[zamlat]

I have a case with PRA,

made a CCA request for information and deeds of assignment,

they only write a letter to say they have requested for the information from OC and the deeds of assignment is a confidential information consisting of their business secret, but they agreed in the letter that they will bring it to the CCJ set aside hearing but they said they will blank out confidential info.

 

What defence options do I have in this scenario ?

 

No CCA request was honoured

What happened in case the deeds has been altered as stated

Also the fact that I have not been given opportunities to review the document before hearing ?

If they are challenging my set aside application, I have not been presented their WS?

[zamlat]

Hi good people,

 

I have recently made a set aside application against a CCJ,

I then made a CCA 77/79 request to the claimant (PRA),

who then wrote back to me to inform me that they have requested the documentation from Original Creditor (OC).

 

Also I made a request to see the deeds of assignment too,

they stated that they do not provide a copy of the deeds of assignment,

but could as a matter of good gesture provide a copy during the set aside hearing,

with all the confidential information blanked out.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Are they allowed to present blanked out information as evidence in this sort of case?

And what is the implication of these alterations and changes to the case, could this hamper the strength of their evidence?

 

2. No CCA 77/79 was presented as of now, although the hearing is slated for mid next month.

 

3. As the set aside application was based on the fact that the claim form was sent to a demolished house, and that I only found out about it after checking my credit report.

 

4. I strongly believe that the default judgement would be set aside, and right now am working on perfecting my defense against any future claim which would be re-submitted within 12days of set aside judgement.

 

5. Also it looks like the claimant is looking to defend my set aside application,

but till now I have not been sent a copy of their WS.

 

 

Should I write to them to confirm whether they are seeking to defend against my set aside application,

if they said yes, should I ask them to send me a copy of their WS?

 

6. Post set aside, I need help drafting a good defense for the claim to be re-submitted.

 

7. Is it possible to send my draft defence to someone with legal background to review and comment for me?

 

Kindly provide comment for each of the point stated above.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

seems like you've been reading freeman sites regarding this deed rubbish

you need to now forget about that twaddle.

 

have you a copy of the CCJ and the claimform??

 

if not you need to ring northants bulk and get those both sent to you as an email pdf.

 

if you didn't inform the owners of your debts nor the original creditor of a move

then they were quite legally entitled to serve the claim to an old address and thus get a default judgement

 

if that be the case then that's no reason for a set aside, neither is the failure of any CCA request

the default judgement trumps the need for any paperwork after the event.

 

they don't need to state anything to counter your set aside if the above are your only reasons

[zamlat]

Let me answer your question

have you a copy of the CCJ and the claimform?? I am not sure if you have read this whole message before this post.

 

Let me answer, and please kindly read through the post carefully before commenting.

 

The CCJ was discovered while checking through the credit report, no claim form was seen because it was sent to a demolished address.

 

I believe the claimant has a duty to ensure that the claim form is sent to the current address of defendant by conducting some due diligence and credit report checks, electoral roll checks etc.

 

My view is that some of them deliberately sent claim form to the old address knowing fully well that the person no longer live there so that they could obtain default judgement.

 

About what you said on freeman site, i dont even know what you are talking about, i know nothing about the site you just mentioned.

 

The reason why am here was to get concrete answers to the questions raised by people with appropriate experience or legal background.

 

Per this statement - if you didn't inform the owners of your debts nor the original creditor of a move then they were quite legally entitled to serve the claim to an old address and thus get a default judgement

 

I notified the OC of the move, i have a copy of the letter to the OC, also updated electoral roll with new address and also the address had already been demolished with the judgement was obtained, meaning the claim form would have been sent back to the court by the Royal Mail because the post code no longer exist.

 

I did a post code search and obtained photo evidence of demolition too.

 

Per the deed of assignment that you rubbished. I believe without this how can PRA proof that I owe them? have you checked PRA v Brunt?

[dx100uk]

Let me answer your question

have you a copy of the CCJ and the claimform?? I am not sure if you have read this whole message before this post.

 

Let me answer, and please kindly read through the post carefully before commenting.

 

The CCJ was discovered while checking through the credit report, no claim form was seen because it was sent to a demolished address.

 

I believe the claimant has a duty to ensure that the claim form is sent to the current address of defendant by conducting some due diligence and credit report checks, electoral roll checks etc.- well sadly whatever you believe is wrong, legally, they are quite entitled to serve the claim to the last address you told the original creditor or the now debt owner.

 

My view is that some of them deliberately sent claim form to the old address knowing fully well that the person no longer live there so that they could obtain default judgement. - done on 85% of 750'000 claimforms issued every year.

 

About what you said on freeman site, i dont even know what you are talking about, i know nothing about the site you just mentioned. - deed of assigment you mean notice of assignment .

 

The reason why am here was to get concrete answers to the questions raised by people with appropriate experience or legal background.

 

 

 

 

 

you need a copy of the claimform and the particulars of claim to properly set this aside

you need a copy of the judgement ccj to see if you can could be forthwith or monthly, we/you don't know.

 

 

We need to have the correct info then we can advise properly.

the way you are heading via cca/no paperwork is pointless

the fact judgement has been granted wipesout any need for any paperwork.

 

 

dx

Edited July 25, 2017 by Andyorch
edited

[AndyOrch]

Seems we got off on the wrong foot here

 

zamlat...as long as you have the proof the Judgment Claimant was aware of your address your set a side should be successful......you will have to also demonstrate that you do have the basis of a defence with merit also....

 

Given the points you have made above ...they should be sufficient.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

why did you not simply say you have proof you told the oc of an address change in your 1st post?

anyway

there you go.

that's all you need to set it aside

 

 

but you'll or we'll still need the particulars of claim from the claimform as you'll still need a defence for the debt itself to accompany the set aside reason.

[zamlat]

What details do you need from the claim form? I will give them.

 

you need a copy of the claimform and the particulars of claim to properly set this aside

you need a copy of the judgement ccj to see if you can could be forthwith or monthly, we/you don't know.

 

 

We need to have the correct info then we can advise properly.

the way you are heading via cca/no paperwork is pointless - see comments below

the fact judgement has been granted wipesout any need for any paperwork.

 

 

dx

 

My view is that some of them deliberately sent claim form to the old address knowing fully well that the person no longer live there so that they could obtain default judgement. - done on 85% of 750'000 claim forms issued every year. ( what do you mean by this? you mean 85% of claim was sent to correct address? we do have a reference to this? any news paper article to back this statement up? This would be useful if you can substantiate this with an evidence.

 

I need to reiterate this for you, it seems you have no patient to read through properly before writing stuff.

My argument to set aside is beyond paper work, it's based on some of the reasons I have already stated many times.

 

The paper work request came just to be prepared for the defense when the new claim form is submitted. It would be nice to have the papers ready when the new claim form is submitted by the claimant.

 

You said you want to know the details on the claim form, what exact details do you need? do you have any legal background to provide advice?

 

Seems we got off on the wrong foot here

 

zamlat...as long as you have the proof the Judgment Claimant was aware of your address your set a side should be successful......you will have to also demonstrate that you do have the basis of a defence with merit also....

 

Given the points you have made above ...they should be sufficient.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thank you Andy, I think you sound much more helpful.

You said '.as long as you have the proof the Judgment Claimant was aware of your address your set a side should be successful', what sort of proof are you referring to here? All I have is a copy of the letter sent to the OC, photos of the house demolition, proof that the post code no longer exist from Royal Mail, proof that electoral roll was updated.

 

Per defense, to get ready for this I have made a CCA 77/79 request which the claimant has agreed to provide, including the deeds of assignment to them. The deed of assignment is the only proof that the debt has been sold to them. I have never heard from them before no notice of assignment was sent, probably sent to a demolished address which I believe would have been returned to them by Royal Mail.

 

The reason why am here is to seek more reasons for defense, where the amount being claimed is totally inflated and I disagree with. Any clear statements around default notices etc. I have my defense notes written already just need some more views from someone with appropriate experience to add to it.

[AndyOrch]

What details do you need from the claim form? I will give them.

 

The Particulars of claim (verbatim) then we can check what they are actually suing you for and check your defence is CPR compliant.

Thank you Andy, I think you sound much more helpful.

You said '.as long as you have the proof the Judgment Claimant was aware of your address your set a side should be successful', what sort of proof are you referring to here? All I have is a copy of the letter sent to the OC, photos of the house demolition, proof that the post code no longer exist from Royal Mail, proof that electoral roll was updated.Then that should suffice....the main one being the letter to the OC informing them.

 

Per defense, to get ready for this I have made a CCA 77/79 request which the claimant has agreed to provide, including the deeds of assignment to them. The deed of assignment is the only proof that the debt has been sold to them. I have never heard from them before no notice of assignment was sent, probably sent to a demolished address which I believe would have been returned to them by Royal Mail. Well all that is in all our standard holding defence which you will find in the Financial Legal Success Forum..off this one.

 

The reason why am here is to seek more reasons for defense, where the amount being claimed is totally inflated and I disagree with. Any clear statements around default notices etc. I have my defense notes written already just need some more views from someone with appropriate experience to add to it.

 

Have a look at other similar threads in the forum I have stated and you will see how an initial holding defence is drafted..initially you put them to strict proof to disclose the documents they rely upon..if they manage to disclose and proceed then you attack in detail within your witness statement which follows allocation....if it gets that far and not discontinued after the initial holding defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mercyblue]

You cant issue a claim to a non existent address see cpr 6 (6.6(2)) specifically. As the claim cannot ever have been served the default judgement is erroneous and must be set aside part 13.3 shouldn't apply here. Admittedly that is just my opinion but I'm pretty sure I could make that fly.

 

Secondly once the creditor was aware they had sent a claim to a non existent address meaning that they knew full well the defendant couldn't possibly have received the claim (which nicely blows out any argument using cpr 6.9) why they didn't themselves apply for a set aside.

 

Thirdly someone has signed a statement of truth on that claim form what due diligence has that person done to ascertain the "facts" on the claim form are true considering the actual fact that they didn't even have a valid uk address. I assume you have already made the set aside application otherwise you could name them as a witness and actually ask them!

 

The last thing the claimant will want is somebody been asked about their (shoddy) working practices in a courtroom. No doubt the claimant will use the usual "administrative error" but there cant have been any fact checking on the claim so how can we take any of the claim at face value.

 

I would make it clear that I would expect in any future claim that some sort of audit trail could be provided to show how the so called facts have been derived, again putting their working practices to scrutiny. Hopefully that would be enough to make the claim go away.

[zamlat]

The Particulars of claim (verbatim) then we can check what they are actually suing you for and check your defence is CPR compliant.

 

1.THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF 13xxx.xx FOR DEBT AND INTEREST.

2.ON xx/xx/03 THE DEFENDANT ENTERED INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH LLOYDS FOR A CREDIT CARD UNDER REFERENCE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx .

3.ON 30/11/09 THE DEFENDANT DEFAULTED ON THE AGREEMENT WITH AN OUTSTANDING BALANCE OF 13xxx.xx.

4.ON xx/xx/14 THE DEBT OF 13xxx.xx ASSIGNED TO AKTIV KAPITAL PORTFOLIO AS, OSLO ,ZUG BRANCH, WHO ITSELF ASSIGNED THE DEBT TO PRA GROUP ( UK ) LTD

5.ON xx/xx/14. NOTICES OF ASSIGNMENT WERE SENT TO THE DEFENDANT IN ACCORDANCE WITH S136 LAW OF PROPERTY ACT 1925. PAYMENTS OF 200.00 RECEIVED UP TO xx/xx/16

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. THE SUM OF 13xxx.xx

2. STATUTORY INTEREST PURSUANT TO SECTION 69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT ARATE OF 8.00% PER ANNUM FROM xx/x/16 TO xx/x/16 360.82 AND THEREAFTER AT A DAILY RATEOF x.xx UNTIL JUDGMENT OR SOONER PAYMENT.

 

Have a look at other similar threads in the forum I have stated and you will see how an initial holding defence is drafted.

.initially you put them to strict proof to disclose the documents they rely upon

..if they manage to disclose and proceed then you attack in detail within your witness statement which follows allocation

....if it gets that far and not discontinued after the initial holding defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Kindly provide the link here, as you know we have thousands of links on here, kindly help with the correct link.

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?190-Legal-Successes

[zamlat]

You cant issue a claim to a non existent address see cpr 6 (6.6(2)) specifically. As the claim cannot ever have been served the default judgement is erroneous and must be set aside part 13.3 shouldn't apply here. Admittedly that is just my opinion but I'm pretty sure I could make that fly.

 

Secondly once the creditor was aware they had sent a claim to a non existent address meaning that they knew full well the defendant couldn't possibly have received the claim (which nicely blows out any argument using cpr 6.9) why they didn't themselves apply for a set aside.

 

Thirdly someone has signed a statement of truth on that claim form what due diligence has that person done to ascertain the "facts" on the claim form are true considering the actual fact that they didn't even have a valid uk address. I assume you have already made the set aside application otherwise you could name them as a witness and actually ask them!

 

The last thing the claimant will want is somebody been asked about their (shoddy) working practices in a courtroom. No doubt the claimant will use the usual "administrative error" but there cant have been any fact checking on the claim so how can we take any of the claim at face value.

 

I would make it clear that I would expect in any future claim that some sort of audit trail could be provided to show how the so called facts have been derived, again putting their working practices to scrutiny. Hopefully that would be enough to make the claim go away.

 

Thank you so much Mercyblue, at last I have someone who have carefully read my post before commenting. Thank you very much.

I like those questions raised, they are legitimate questions which I can confidently ask during hearing.

Thank you very much.

[zamlat]

I will like to know the legal position on seeking compensation or counter claiming for wrongful CCJ which has been successfully set aside, especially if the CCJ has cause the defendant to loose their job and unable to secure gainful employment while the CCJ was in force, costing over 12 months of income and bad credit rating.

 

What legal ground is available to seek for damages, compensation or counter claim against wrongly applied default judgement, which has been successfully set aside?

 

Experience people with strong legal background is allowed to comment on this post, take no offence please. Any statement must be backed up with proper legal case or evidence.

 

Thanks good people.

[zamlat]

Thanks Andy

[BankFodder]

If you want opinions from people with a strong legal background and upon which you can rely, then you need to seek the services of an insured qualified legal professional.

 

If you want some help here is a matter of goodwill then that will be fine.

 

Other than that, it's not possible to ask your question on the scant information that you have given.

 

Lay out the story and maybe we can have a look

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Is this connected with your other thread please?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?479725-Set-Aside-hearing-Defence-options&p=5047857#post5047857

 

HB

[dx100uk]

if it is

then a set a side is not a win

so not a reason for compo.

 

 

you will have to successfully defend the resultant hearing regarding if you owe the card debt that caused it.

[zamlat]

I like the title on this page, true reflection of what happened. Great Job. I like to PM to Andy for some reason I cant because I have not posted enough is that right? Can Andy kindly send me a PM so hopefully I will be able to respond. Thanks in advance.

[zamlat]

Hello there. Is this connected with your other thread please?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?479725-Set-Aside-hearing-Defence-options&p=5047857#post5047857

 

HB

 

Kind of connected, I want to understand what remedies are available, if it was found out that the CCJ has cause harm because the process that led to judgement had not followed the legal requirements, where it was obvious the statement of truth is clearly statement of lies and no due diligence. Where judgement was obtain through backdoor means where the forms were sent to demolished house with none existing address, address had been pulled out by Royal Mail.

Edited August 1, 2017 by zamlat

[zamlat]

if it is

then a set a side is not a win

so not a reason for compo.

 

 

you will have to successfully defend the resultant hearing regarding if you owe the card debt that caused it.

 

 

Do you have any defense ideas for pre 2007 credit card agreement?

[AndyOrch]

You can PM the Site Team irrespective of how many posts you have made.

[zamlat]

You cant issue a claim to a non existent address see cpr 6 (6.6(2)) specifically. As the claim cannot ever have been served the default judgement is erroneous and must be set aside part 13.3 shouldn't apply here. Admittedly that is just my opinion but I'm pretty sure I could make that fly.

 

Secondly once the creditor was aware they had sent a claim to a non existent address meaning that they knew full well the defendant couldn't possibly have received the claim (which nicely blows out any argument using cpr 6.9) why they didn't themselves apply for a set aside.

 

Thirdly someone has signed a statement of truth on that claim form what due diligence has that person done to ascertain the "facts" on the claim form are true considering the actual fact that they didn't even have a valid uk address. I assume you have already made the set aside application otherwise you could name them as a witness and actually ask them!

 

The last thing the claimant will want is somebody been asked about their (shoddy) working practices in a courtroom. No doubt the claimant will use the usual "administrative error" but there cant have been any fact checking on the claim so how can we take any of the claim at face value.

 

I would make it clear that I would expect in any future claim that some sort of audit trail could be provided to show how the so called facts have been derived, again putting their working practices to scrutiny. Hopefully that would be enough to make the claim go away.

 

Also post judgement,

the judgement was obtained since last year,

they would have made some attempts to enforce the judgement,

and would have attempted to send out letters which would have been rejected or returned to them by the post office,

 

they know clearly that they have obtained the judgement on a non-existing address and should have done the right thing to perform some some due diligence

 

a basic credit file check would confirm new address even if they deny the OC has not pass on change of address letter to them.

[dx100uk]

sadly no

they are quite correct to file to the last time you informed the OC or them of a change.

but as you'd already told the OC

its well out of order.

 

but I think that's given anyway and you have the reason to apply for the set aside

but need a defence for the debt itself

did you find one from our successes forum?

[AndyOrch]

Do you have any defense ideas for pre 2007 credit card agreement?

 

Do we have the details/history of the debt/dispute and claimed particulars ?

 

Andy