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Court help please , let D go 1st - lost case!!


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Hello,

 

Yesterday, 19/02/2017, at 12:00pm, at Kingston County Court hearing,

I (the Claimant, litigants in person) sworn in and as I started to give my evidence-in-chief.

 

 

Suddenly, the defendant`s barrister told the judge that their witness has get a 4:00pm flight and has to leave the court at 2:30pm.

 

 

Politely, I suggested to the judge if he wants to hear the defendant`s witness first.

 

 

The judge agreed and the witness then sworn in and gave evidence.

 

 

Please, can you tell me if such action is legal?

Was there an irregularity of the judge conduct?

 

I lost my case and I am planning to seek permission to appeal.

 

Your answer / help would be appreciated very much.

Thank you.

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You © proposed the D give their evidence first.

Given the wide latitude the judge has, and the fact that you proposed it (and then the judge agreed!), I can't see how this is procedurally improper.

 

Did you ask for permission to appeal? (& if not, why not?)

What grounds do you wish to appeal on?

 

You've posted on someone else's (almost 2 year old!) thread.

Hopefully site team will move this to its own thread.

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own thread created

we need far more info

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You © proposed the D give their evidence first.

Given the wide latitude the judge has, and the fact that you proposed it (and then the judge agreed!), I can't see how this is procedurally improper.

 

Did you ask for permission to appeal? (& if not, why not?)

What grounds do you wish to appeal on?

 

You've posted on someone else's (almost 2 year old!) thread.

Hopefully site team will move this to its own thread.

 

Sorry, this is my first time to use form.

Yes, I hope they will move it to its thread.

No, I did not ask for permission to appeal but I am thinking to sent a letter/application with reasons for seeking permission to appeal.

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As you consented I think an appeal being successful is very unlikely.

 

I posted this on the old thread but 1.5 hrs to get from Kingston to an airport (Heathrow presumably), make it through security and make your boarding time 30 mins pre flight seems far fetched.

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But I am thinking to sent a letter/application with reasons for seeking permission to appeal.

 

On what grounds do you want to base your appeal?

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Clearly, this point on its own would not get me anywhere, but if it were to be added to other points which would shows that there were other irregularity as to how the judge conducted that hearing. Simply, it would add some weights to my argument for permission to appeal.

 

I do except that the judge should not act at the hearing as an advocate for the litigate in person, also it must be excepted that it is a part of the judge`s duty to be on the lookout for points, which the litigate in person may be entitled to raise or to be correct it. After all, the judge has a duty to both sides to be on an equal footing.

 

Also, I am sure that once I required the transcript of the whole hearing including the judgment, it will show more points where I believe the judge was wholly unreasonable in exercising her discretion on the facts before her in the way she did.

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we need far more info

what is the case all about please??

 

 

IMHO its got NOWT to do with them going first

and more to do with you have no case in the first place

or a very poor POC.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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After all, the judge has a duty to both sides to be on an equal footing.

 

Also, I am sure that once I required the transcript of the whole hearing including the judgment, it will show more points where I believe the judge was wholly unreasonable in exercising her discretion on the facts before her in the way she did.

 

Not getting the decision you wanted doesn't mean the parties weren't placed on an even footing.

You'll have to be more persuasive in your argument (which you've failed on once already!) than that.

 

In an adversarial system at least one of the parties will always feel they didn't get their way ...... so you'll need firmer grounds than that.

As dx has noted: if you want help, you'll need to give way more detail!.

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Soon, I will be giving quite a lot of my case details and information.

 

Thank you for removing and creating my own thread.

This is my first time to get involved in using “FORUMS”, and it looks like it will take me some time to get the hang of things!

 

Once I have submitted and served the form (N164) for my permission to appeal, I will be giving quite a lot of my case details.

 

 

I am sure some or all of the participants will get involved, because the defendant in this case is a well-known multibillion company.

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Okay. Here are the details.

I had to take out any names and put the “XXXXX” .

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

 

A brief Background of the hearing:

 

On the morning of the trial, the Defendant`s barrister submitted a 9 pages skeleton argument, and I submitted a 4 pages letter to the court.

 

 

At 11:00am, both parties entered the courtroom.

The judge was busy read some documents.

The judge then asked both parties to wait outside court whilst he finished reading the documents.

 

 

It was abundantly clear that the judge did not give himself the necessary time to look at both parties documentations, which were submitted to court on 6th June 2017 in accordance to judge XXXXX `s order dated 9th May 2017.

Also, judge XXXXX `s order stated that “the hearing should take no longer than 1 hour”.

 

One hour later, at 12:00pm, both parties were called back to go to the courtroom.

The judge was still reading.

 

 

He then asked me “what do you have to say about that?”

I then told him “about what?”

 

 

He raised the Defendant`s skeleton argument, which he had just finished reading it, and said “about the wrong entity?”

I told the judge that I had covered this issue in my witness statement.

 

 

I then directed him through my statement, the paragraphs and the quotations from the 40 pages XXXXX case.

He then continued to read and listened to both parties arguments.

Eventually, the judge accepted my argument and rejected the Defendant’s argument.

 

He then picked up the Defendant`s witness statement, and asked “if Mrs. XXXXX here?”

the Defendant`s barrister then pointed at the lady sitting next to her and said “yes she is here”.

 

 

I was a surprised to hear this as I was planning to cross-examine her.

Before the hearing started, the Defendant`s barrister did ask me if I had any objection to two female students from her office to be present at hearing.

I agreed to this, however, nothing had been said about their witness being present during the entire trial.

 

The judge then asked me to go in the witness box and take the oath.

Whilst the judge questioning me about my statement, suddenly, the Defendant’s barrister stood-up and told the judge that her witness has to leave the court by 2:30pm, because she had a flight to take and had to be at the airport by 4:00pm.

 

 

I, politely, suggested to the judge if he wants to hear the Defendant`s witness first.

I am aware that usually at the court, the Claimant give evidences first, then the Defendant.

 

 

I felt that the judge was not familiar with the case and had not finished reading all the documents; therefore, I thought he would adjourn the hearing for another date.

 

 

Surprisingly, the judge agreed and I stood down.

The Defendant`s witness proceeded to give her evidence.

 

 

As the witness did not provide her address in her statement, the judge asked her “what is your address?”

The witness who is a Senior Manager and has being working for XXXXX for the last 2½ years, however, she did not know her XXXXX address, which seemed unusual.

 

 

Furthermore, the defendant`s barrister did not have XXXXX address.

I asked the judge to look at my 4 pages letter, which had XXXXX address.

 

 

In my letter to the court I had addressed this issue, as judge XXXXX`s order dated 9th May 2017 has many restrictions / requirements regarding both parties witnesses statements.

 

 

The order clearly states the following:

“It is of the utmost importance that the parties do comply with this direction.

Otherwise, the claim of a claimant who has not complied may be struck out by the court or the defence and any counterclaim of a defendant who has not complied may be struck out and judgment given against them.”

 

“Witness statements of the parties and their other witnesses (which are to be typed in not less than 1.5 spaced 12 point font) should:

 

a) set out the case number and name at the top and then state full name and address of the witness;”

 

The trial judge did not appear to be familiar with all the facts and the documentation

, he also was not aware of judge XXXXX`s order dated 9thMay 2017.

Clearly, the Defendant is in breach of that order.

 

While cross-examination the Defendant’s witness,

I established that their reason for stopping me using the XXXXX was due to receiving a race discrimination complaint dated 15th February 2017 from a female customers.

 

 

Although starting from 16th February 2017 there were numerous emails communication between us regarding a standard “feedback” from one of the customers, none of the emails addressed the serious race discrimination complaint, which in itself is a violation of their employment contract/serves agreement XXXXX.

 

 

The Defendant’s witness`s reason for not writing about the complaint was due to their “customer’s privacy policy”, and they only can deal with such complaint either by phone call or in meeting, but not by writing emails and asking a direct question about it.

 

The first time I found out about the complain was from the Defendant`s witness statement dated 6th June 2017.

My 4 pages letter to the court addressed this issue and shows that the complaint must had been a phony complaint and untrue, especially because the complainer stated that this was not the first time she has complained “I have previously made a complaint about this guy and his racist behaviour toward my partner”.

 

 

If this statement were to be true, then why did XXXXX not look into her previous/first complaint?

I have no knowledge about her previous complaints nor did I receive any feedback or telephone call or emails regarding this complaint.

Clearly, if I had not taken any legal action, they would not have given the details of such complaint and their reason for stopping of the XXXXX.

 

In the judgment,

the judge referred to the emails communication, and said that although I was very suspicious about XXXXX real intention, XXXXX did not spell out the reason for stopping the XXXXX, this was due to their approach in dealing with such issue and they do not want to ask a direct question about the race discrimination complaint.

 

 

He went on saying that he was satisfied that XXXXX did not breach their employment contract and that I was not reasonable in refusing to respond constantly either by meeting or by the telephone or by emails, hence, dismissing my claim.

 

The judge did not give or make any orders.

He only gave his judgment.

The Defendant`s barrister suggested that she will draft the order and then send it on to the judge. The judge agreed.

 

My Application for permission to appeal:

 

I was very surprised about how the trial judge handled the case, the documents and the evidences that were before him.

I believe that he was not ready to deal with this case.

He could have adjourned the case until such time that he would have had enough time to go over all documents.

I will be obtaining a transcript of that trial, which will show how the judge conducted the trail.

 

 

However, for the time being here are my reasons for asking for a permission to appeal:

 

1. It was abundantly clear that the judge was not fully prepared to deal with the trial, he could ordered an adjournment, particularly given that there was no urgency to deal with this case. I believe this amount to a serious material irregularity, and that the judge failed to apply the most basic principles of justice. It is my submission that the judge had failed to refocus his energy towards carefully consideration to the facts and had reached a wrong conclusion.

 

2. The Judge failed to take into account matters which he should have taken into account, such as judge XXXXX `s order dated 9thMay 2017, and my 4 pages letter to the court addressing the issue of the alleged complaint. Clearly, the Defendant is in breach of that order.

 

3. The judge was wholly unreasonable in exercising his discretion on the facts before him in the way in which he did, as it was clear that he had not gone over all the documents and evidence before him. It is my submission that the judge was unreasonable and his order is flawed not only procedurally, but also as to the legal basis on which it was founded.

 

4. It is elementary to strike a fair balance between the competing interests, and in order for the justice not only to be done but it seen to be done, the Judge should have considered the concept of “equality of arms”. Hence, I believe my right to a fair hearing under Article 6 of the Human Right Act 1998, if not actually breached, is diluted.

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I'm still none the wiser.

Your reasons for appeal are so vague that almost any unsuccessful litigant could claim similar.

 

One party wins, one loses.... that is what happens with an adversarial system.

I can't see how you loosing automatically means that you can show the judge wasn't prepared, didn't take relevant matters into account, was unreasonable / had not gone over the documents, or treated you unfairly. you'll need to give much more specific examples and proof to stand a chance of an appeal, otherwise almost every case would go to appeal (after all, someone doesn't get the result they wanted!).

 

So, taking one point and developing it: how can you show your Article 6 rights have been impinged, other than "I lost, so the judge can't have treated me fairly"?

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So, taking one point and developing it: how can you show your Article 6 rights have been impinged, other than "I lost, so the judge can't have treated me fairly"?

 

Well, let`s wait and see what happens.

 

Yes, let us wait and see.

However, if you can't show it here (and just for one point you raise), how will you persuade a judge ...........

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Unfortunately I am not seeing any grounds for appeal from what you've described.

1. It was abundantly clear that the judge was not fully prepared to deal with the trial, he could ordered an adjournment, particularly given that there was no urgency to deal with this case. I believe this amount to a serious material irregularity, and that the judge failed to apply the most basic principles of justice. It is my submission that the judge had failed to refocus his energy towards carefully consideration to the facts and had reached a wrong conclusion.

 

Unfortunately this par for the course Max ... you need to take the judge through the relevant points when making your submissions.

 

2. The Judge failed to take into account matters which he should have taken into account, such as judge XXXXX `s order dated 9thMay 2017, and my 4 pages letter to the court addressing the issue of the alleged complaint. Clearly, the Defendant is in breach of that order.

 

Is the issue here that there was some confusion over the witness' address? This is strange but I can't see why it would prejudice the trial.

 

3. The judge was wholly unreasonable in exercising his discretion on the facts before him in the way in which he did, as it was clear that he had not gone over all the documents and evidence before him. It is my submission that the judge was unreasonable and his order is flawed not only procedurally, but also as to the legal basis on which it was founded.

I'm not sure I understand this. You can only appeal on the basis of a serious procedural irregularity OR an error of law.

 

4. It is elementary to strike a fair balance between the competing interests, and in order for the justice not only to be done but it seen to be done, the Judge should have considered the concept of “equality of arms”. Hence, I believe my right to a fair hearing under Article 6 of the Human Right Act 1998, if not actually breached, is diluted.

I am struggling to see a serious procedural irregularity or an error of law from your post.

 

I can't see identify from your post any material procedural irregularity affecting the fairness of the hearing.

 

You haven't given enough details concerning the underlying facts and legal basis of your case in order for me to identify whether there is an arguable point of law.

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