PPM/gladstones Claimform - 2 PCNs fallen permit - Flats Winterthur Way Basingstoke

[dx100uk]

std letter they send to everyone

go read freds thread or any gladdies claimform one.

 

when the time comes you object to a paperonly hearing

[tissot]

So the time has come,

 

Gladdys has 'emailed' me the particulars of claim. (All correspondence so far has been via mail)

They must have got my email address from PPM when I was originally asking why I was getting a ticket in my own space.

 

Which I am not happy my email has been passed on (I know its my own fault but I didn't know these things until finding the CAG)!

 

PSA for the PDF (Redacted).

 

I guess now is time to get my WS together.

 

Is there anything I need to send them or the courts in reply ?

 

Kind Regards,

 

Tissot

BUNDLE - Redacted.pdf

[dx100uk]

so you've had your N180 then?

[tissot]

so you've had your N180 then?

 

I did indeed, No to Mediation etc !

 

Also had the letter about a paper only hearing which I objected to.

[dx100uk]

ok well lots of witness statements here already

rip theirs to shreds in yours..

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?482796-UkCPM-gladstones-claimform-PNC-St-Michaels-Church-Church-Square-Basingstoke.-***-WON-CASE-DISMISSED-***/page2

[tissot]

Here is my WS so far, would appreciate anyones input at this point so i dont start barking up the wrong tree.

 

1. I would contend that the operator does not have a clear, contemporaneous, signed & dated contract with the landowner (or a chain of contracts between the Landowner, Managing agent and the operator) that gives them the right to issue charges in their own name.

 

2. Whilst it is accepted that they may have a contract which is signed by the Managing agents of the land, the Claimants have failed to respond to my CPR 31:14 sent on the 12/03/2018 for the disclosure and the production of verified and legible copies of any documentation or relevant contracts with the land owners, at the time of the alleged offence that allow the claimant (Parking and Property Management) to issue claims upon the landowners’ behalf.

 

3. It is strict proof that as the owner of the vehicle is the legal occupier of 000 Winterthur Way ,Victory Hill, they therefore have an expressed right to park in parking space No. 000 without becoming subject to the operators terms and conditions.

 

4.This is backed by the signed tenancy agreement between the tenant and landowner, see;

 

ASSURED SHORTHOLD TENANCY AGREEMENT – Clause 19.2 Page 12;

 

CAR PARKING SPACE

 

19.2 To park in the space allocated to the property/Premises if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space.

 

5. The clauses in the Tenancy Agreement covering car parking spaces (19.1 – 19.6) have no reference to any legally binding contracts with any operators or mentions of having to display any permits.

 

6. Therefore, as the vehicle was parked in the allocated space with express permission of the landowner or their Managing agent, this overrides any contract that the operator forms with the vehicle owner in question via the signage placed on the site of Victory Hill.

 

7. In Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.

 

8. In Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] it was also found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.

[dx100uk]

Where's that from.. Here?

[tissot]

Where's that from.. Here?

 

It's a mixture of different ones from different posts. Then edited so suit my case. I assume from that response I'm doing it wrong !

[dx100uk]

I'd stick to Cag as my post 80

[ericsbrother]

You need to add quite a bit,

you need photos of the signage there and then argue about that as chances are they atren offering a contract anyways but a notice of prohibition or deterrence and thus there can be no offer for you to consider.

 

Your point 2 fails to use the right language,

the contract needs an assignment from the landowner that allows the aprking co to enterinto contracts with the lessees/tenants and public and to make civil claims in their own name.

 

They may claim agency and if they do then they have no locus standi as they will need a letter from the landowner to say they have permission to prosecute this matter for them and as the parking co arent solicitors even that will be limited inasmuch as the LL can only go after trespassers and you arent one.

 

also at the end you mention landowner and/or managing agent. The agents have nothing to do with anything and the landowner has assigned a lease to your landlord that giver them ownership of that sopace to do what they like with it.

 

also you will have to make copies of everything you refer to so that the full script may be read where possible so referring to your tenancy is immaterial if the lease doesnt state the same. these should be appended to your WS in your bundle.

 

what you say is true but you must offer some meat to go with the bare bones and also hit them with any procedural impropriety as well so if they have got the wording of the NTK wrong then they cant claim a bean from anyone, let alone the keeper.

 

It isnt worth arguing about who was driving but read (and copy) the whole POFA so you understand what I am on about, they have to get the wording right or game over.

Edited June 26, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[tissot]

Thanks EB,

 

Will start editing it now,

 

I have included photos of the actual signage in post 6 and they have included a digital copy in their bundle post 77.

 

I don't quite know how to decipher the sign into something I can use, if at all ?

 

I also do not have or have access to the landowners lease.

 

Does that mean I cant use the primacy of contract argument ?

[dx100uk]

layout of signs?

 

not for you to produce supremacy of contract ...theirs to prove otherwise

[tissot]

layout of signs?

 

That sign is on the fence directly behind my space.

[dx100uk]

you not got their WS yet

and that generic sign in the above att must be the exact one you have a photo of...

[tissot]

I assumed post 77 was their WS ?

 

And you are correct the sign is slightly different in their bundle to the one I posted a picture of.

[dx100uk]

no its their poc

ta da!!

[DragonFly1967]

With what you already have, you should be able to make short work of this in court if Gladrags are daft enough to go that far (I know, who am I trying to kid? )

[tissot]

So in terms of the signage there is nothing I can put in my WS about the wording of the contract that I can see ?

 

Also to follow on from EB about point 4 of my WS, as I don't have access to the LL lease, am I doing myself over talking about the Tenancy agreement ?

[dx100uk]

why not….?

when have you go to send your WS by?

[tissot]

why not….?

when have you go to send your WS by?

 

I am awaiting the letter from the courts, the POC had to be in by 4th July which they put in early. So should receive confirmation from courts any day now for me to put my paperwork in.

[DragonFly1967]

Remember, your full witness statement does not have to be served on Gladrags and sent to the court until 14 days before your case. Don't send it in too early as doing so would give Gladrags a chance to change theirs, and don't think they wouldn't. They do not play with a straight bat.

[ericsbrother]

you need to get a copy of the deeds of the property from the Land Registry

, that will contain most of what you need regarding what the leaseholder got for their money.

 

It will cost you £3 for a download.

 

make sure you use the Govt website and not some bandit lookalike

[AuntieSoo]

Please can you share the status of your case?

 

A friend of mine is being taken to small claims court by gladrags chasing payment for consecutive pcns issued because the temporary permit had the wrong dates

- the owner's car was parked in their allocated space as per the tenancy agreement (Winterthur).

 

My friend does not use the car for work and was unaware of the multiple pcns on the car windscreen.

 

Any docs you can share greatly appreciated.

Anyone know if you can be fined multiple times (ie on consecutive days) for the same 'offence'.

 

Thank you.

Edited September 20, 2018 by AuntieSoo

[dx100uk]

No you need to start a new thread

Of you own please

 

And its not a fine..where have you got that from??

[AuntieSoo]

Semantics - fine or charge? Parking Charge Notice - can you update the thread on where you are with fighting the charge?