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    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   People will be along later to advise you, please bear with us until they're able to get here.   In the meantime, I suggest you edit your attachment because you've left your name on it. Please check it carefully and remove anything that can identify you.   HB
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Natwest cant find Loan CCA - was paying Wescot £1PCM..what do i do now??


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Good Afternoon.

 

I was wondering if someone can help me with some questions regarding an old debt I have.

 

About 5 years ago, my mother became terminally ill, I was in full time work and had to reduce my hours to help her as she refused to go into care.

 

At the time I was paying for a Loan from NatWest.

 

I knew I was going to start to struggle paying the loan amount so I went into the bank to ask for help.

 

3 times I went in asked, each time they either tried to replace it with a bigger loan over longer or just said no.

 

On the 3rd time I spoke to the General Manager who said to stop paying the loan and we will be in touch to arrange a lower payment.

I was unaware what this actually meant but did it.

 

5 Years on I have a default and debt owing to NatWest,

However they have got Westcot to manage the Debt which I pay a token payment of £1 a month.

 

Recently a friend told me about the original terms and conditions tactic.

 

I wrote to Westcot asking which they told me they only manage the debt

I then wrote to NatWest who have replied saying they cannot find them or have enough data and that the debt is not enforceable

however because I'm in default this only stops them not pursing in court.

 

 

The letter says please continue to pay because it they don't they will use what ever means by the law to get the debt back.

 

They also say the Debt is still Valid and please contact them to arrange payment if I haven't already done so.

 

My question is what do I do now?

 

My Default will drop off soon and I don't want to cause a issue which could stop that happening.

 

This is the only debt I have and its effects my credit score.

 

What should I do?

 

Any help with be greatly received.

 

I have attached the letter.

Natwest Letter.jpeg

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Easy - Stop Paying :)

 

Its as simple as that. Wescot dont do court and also as they have confirmed it is unenforceable then they can go whistle...

Nothing they can do to you :)

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I am really uneasy about just stop paying. I don't want the fact the default will drop of my credit report next year be effected in any way.

 

 

Letter says that the default only prevents them pursing the debt thought court.

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Yes which means no public CCJ :)

It wont be affected. 6 years from the default date it will drop off paid or not! :)

 

You have nothing to lose honestly!!

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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they'll fog it on to a debt buyer

you'll get a notice of assignment

then fire off a CCA request to the fleecing DCA that buys it.

 

 

cant hurt your file anymore

it will vanish on the defaults 6th birthday paid or not

never to return.

 

 

if nastywest cant find the signed agreement

then neither will they be able to supply it to a no powers DCA

they ARE NOT BAILIFFS

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX is right - These debts are sold without CCA info so they have to go back to the original Cred... If they cant then... CrapOuttaLuck...

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Good Morning Guy,

 

Spoke to Citizen Advice Debt Department and they said that the CCA request does not stop Nastywest taking me to court or getting a CCJ. They said websites like this give false information.

 

They also said that Nastywest will try to report me as bankrupt so the best thing I can do is offer a settlement and pay off asap.

 

Is this true, can Nastywest declare my bankrupt and that appears as a separate point on my credit report.

 

Also is there a template letter when replying to a unable to provide the original terms and conditions.

 

Thank you for all your help so far guys..

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NatWest cant just declare you bankrupt

and some wings of CAB have some very strange ideas about what courts can and cannot enforce

without a signed agreement

and the fact that the ORIGINAL CREDITOR ADMIT they have no agreement.

 

as I said

they'll flog the lemon on. to a DCA.

then its over, because if NW cant find the CCA

sure as eggs is eggs the DCA wont either.

 

the quicker you stop paying

the quicker it will become statute barred

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So got a response from the National Debtline regarding my situation.

 

The creditor could seek to issue a claim against you in the county court and it would be at the discretion of the court whether to grant a judgment.

 

The court would be able to grant the judgment even if there were no original agreement or terms and conditions.

 

You will require legal advice to establish whether any such claim should it be made would be successful or not as this is likely to ultimately determine whether you seek to repay the debt or not.

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well cag cant keep repeating itself.....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Agree with DX - If you enter a defence and put them to strict proof with an agreement then they would be outta luck on this one :)

Thats IF they issue a claim... They wont :)

 

Stop worrying! :)

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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You have had a lot of very good advice on here. Now I would like to tell you of my actual experience with my NatWest loan.

 

My wife had a £13,400 NatWest loan and, like you, they lost her original agreement.

We went through the same emotions as you are some 4+ years ago.

Dare we stop paying, what might happen, etc.

 

We stopped making payments to them back in February 2013 and guess what happened - nothing.

It must be over two years since we last heard from them.

The default dropped off her credit history long ago and now we are only 19 months away from the debt becoming statute barred.

 

Your choice - but the advice we received on here was the same as you have been given, and it is working well for us.

 

As an aside, we also made a PPI claim on this loan, which was actually three loans rolled forward and were awarded just over £10,000 (yes - ten thousand pounds) which they paid by cheque.

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I believe they have 8 weeks

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The CAB advice is correct. The court can enforce without the creditor having to provide a signed agreement.

 

Regards

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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127 Enforcement orders in cases of infringement.

 

(1)In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

[F1(za)section 55(2) (disclosure of information), or]

[F2(zb)section 61B(3) (duty to supply copy of overdraft agreement), or]

(a)section 65(1) (improperly executed agreements),

 

the court shall dismiss the application if, but F3. . . only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to—

 

(i)prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

(ii)the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136.

(2)If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question.

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  • 2 months later...

TheUnknownStuntsman.

 

Did you have any success with your PPI claim?

 

I to had a loan with NatWest, and they couldn't find the CCA, I have no idea whether there was PPI or not. The Debt is now statute barred. Originally, on principle, I didn't even consider trying to claim PPI, however, as they are still being difficult, I'm now considering it. Just wondered if you had any success.

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry to drag this back up but I have now stopped paying them and the default has dropped off,

however Natwest still send me an account summary every six months because they are to do so by law or something,

Because they are doing this,

does this stop the debt becoming statue barred ?

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On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 16:48, flooz said:

TheUnknownStuntsman.

 

Did you have any success with your PPI claim?

 

I to had a loan with NatWest, and they couldn't find the CCA, I have no idea whether there was PPI or not. The Debt is now statute barred. Originally, on principle, I didn't even consider trying to claim PPI, however, as they are still being difficult, I'm now considering it. Just wondered if you had any success.

 

No, they said I have already had a refund which I clearly have not and they just became awkward about it. I have a ppi company chase them but they wanted me to prove they owe me money.

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