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Hi just looking for a bit of last minute advice. Im going to Tribunal in a week but hoped my employer would crumble way before this point . The basics are i am an employee who works on price job as a two man crew at residential homes. At the end of 2015 my company introduced a massive change of work process including a large pay cut. The change involved another contractor completing part of the works and all crews becoming one man crews . At the time i refused the change and after a meeting with my local and area manager it was agreed i could stay as a two man crew and on same pay . Roll forward to feb this year out of the blue they started paying me the reduced rate without notice. After the most unprofessional , singled out and non listened to grievance procedure of all time i had to raise a tribunal when the time ran out . My company have broken every company grievance policy going even at the end my HR department kept promising to get back to me but never did. Now they brought in a solicitor and they claim it was purely and overpayment from the end of 2015 and they have done nothing wrong . Any advice would be cool thanks

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what does your contract say? sounds like zero hours contract?


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I get a guaranteed minimum wage per week so i dont think it is

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can we have the exact wording (minus the employer name) please?


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No employment with a previous employer counts as paft of your continuous period of

employment unless you have been transferred to us under the TUPE regulations. If this is

the case, this will have been previously confirmed in writing to you.

2, Job Title and Place of Work

You are employed with us as a -------------- within the

Communications business stream. You will be allocated a primary geographical location from

which you will operate day to day, however will be required from time to time to work in

other locations as necessary to meet our client workload requirements.

As our contract requirements change, move and come to an end we reserve the right to

change your place of work to any site within the United Kingdom with reasonable notice.

If you transfer during your employment to a different business stream where different terms

relating to Holiday and Overtime apply we may transfer you automatically to the terms of

the new business unit, this will be confirmed in writing to you prior to the transfer.

You warrant that you are entitled to work in the UK without any additional approvals and

will notify us immediately if you cease to be so entitled at any time during your employment

with us.

As paft of your role you may be required to work in areas or in Government propefi that

insist on security clearance. Therefore you may be requested to apply, through the

company, for the necessary clearances.

3. Ey

You will be paid at a 'rate per task'. Each task will have a points value and each point you

earn will be paid at the rates detailed in the piece rates appendix. You will be guaranteed to

earn either the hourly rate of 86.4t per hour for your working time in any week (Monday to

Sunday) or the value of the tasks you complete that week, whichever is the greater.

Separate arrangements apply in respect of holiday pay and are detailed in section 7 below.

You are paid weekly, two weeks in arrears by bank credit transfer, SAVE THAT on 6 weeks'

notice we can move you to be paid monthly/4 weekly. Should we do so, your earnings will

continue to be calculated on a weekly basis.

No overtime payments will be made unless the overtime worked has been authorised in

advance by your Manager and takes place on a Sunday. Overtime is not guaranteed. Rates

of overtime pay are determined by the project to which you are assigned.

Your pay will be reviewed annually and may be increased from time to time at our discretion

without affecting the other terms of your employment. There is no obligation to award an

increase. There will be no review of pay after notice has been given by you or us to

terminate your employment.

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Ok - so it looks like the dispute is over a change in this bit? - "paid at the rates detailed in the piece rates appendix"

 

a) how many people affected

b) trade union?

c) how much notice did you get

d) what's the actual cash impact in an average week?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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A,All installers were affected about 20 in sussex but lots nationwide

B,No trade union involved

C,No notice just rolled it out , did even care if everyone agreed or not

D,£160 per week on average

Surely because the new price structure was designed for single techs , being kept as the only 2 man crew shows that they were very aware .

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but being kept as a 2 man crew was at your request?

 

I'm not quite understanding how the crew size is relevant. I'm sorry, it must be a pain explaining, but it will probably help with your ET case if you can explain it in a way the layperson can understand.


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new installs were done by 2 man crews , existing properties were done by 1 man crews .

 

My job is installing cable tv which as a 2 man tech meant taking the cable from the pavement across the customers garden to their property then completing the install .The new process involves another contractor talking the cable to the customers home thus apparently making it able to be installed by 1 tech .

 

The price change varies by about 30% to over 50% less . My argument at time was

 

A. Lots of property are streets with no front gardens to go across (they said thats just the way it is )

 

B. could be a 3 hour job and after the other contractor spends 5 mins chucking a cable across a garden how does this make it capable for a 1 man tech to do

 

3. Bad weathers means 1 man tech would get soaked outside then couldnt enter property ,

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.

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Let me see if I have this rght

- they are moving to one man crews, doign half the job each man

- you are on a two man crew, so costing them more per job

 

To be fair, I can see thier point. Overly simplfied, but

 

Before: Send 2 people, take 2 hours; pay 4 hours pay overall.

After: Send one person for an hour, then another person for an hour; 2 hour wage saving.

 

the piece rate is the same either route

 

If the variation was backed up by some time and motion type studies, it my well be entirely reasonable. I suspect their argument may be that it is not their fault you are slower thn other installers - have you heard them mention this?

 

I also see you've had 4 other threads being unhappy at changes with your employer. I think maybe it's time to find somewhere else - staying and complaining can't be making you happy!


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lol I am the longest serving and most experienced tech in my area also the fastest with the best figures . Its not quite what it sounds , on average it takes about 2 hours to for a 2 man crew to install a job . With the new process it takes the new contractors from 1 to 15 minutes to get the cable to the property and then the 1 man tech 4 hours to install but looses between 30-50+percent of the install price . And yes the company i work for are the worst after 3 month grievance process they never once came back to me with any feedback or answers !.

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So hold up. Before, it took 2 men x 2 hours = 4 man hours. Now it takes 1.15 hours prep by first crew, then takes 1 man 4 hours I'd go careful. It looks like that one man is very inefficient for 4 hours. If I'm not seeing your argument, I am not sure how you will convince a judge.


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i was a two man tech before the imposed changed and after refusing the changes continued as a two man crew (the only one ) therefore when they started paying me the new reduced rate after a year and half i raised the original grievance.

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I really would just appreciate advice on the Tribunal front as its a few days because i miss read the paper work . I have not forwarded any documents to any parties does this mean i cannot use any document evidence at the hearing ?

thanks

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i Thought tribunals were very straightforward but no i realize im very wrong . During the months running up to this until now i had no idea about disclosure and after reading up on it i guess i can use no evidence documents at tribunal at all now .During this tribunal procedure i have received nothing from my employer about disclosure and bundles and im guessing thats why all of a sudden they are confident .

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What stage are you at? What kind of hearing is it that you are going to?

 

Have you spoken to ACAS?

 

Have you filled in an ET1 form?

 

Have you got an ET3 back?

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/employment-tribunals/starting-an-employment-tribunal-claim/


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Its a tribunal for an hour with decision at the end . I have filled an ET1 and received an email containing an ET3 . Acas were involved but 2 weeks ago my employers just told them they want to go to tribunal . I have the tribunal appointment on friday. I have had no contact whatsoever with my employers or their solicitors apart from the copy of the ET3 . Thanks for your reply

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Ok. It's not a pre-hearing or anything like that? What is the actual name of the type of hearing on the letter you have? Is there a date on it for submitting bundles?

 

It would be unusual for the employer not to prepare any kind of documentation to support their rebuttal of the claim, which is why I am wondering if this is perhaps a brief pre-hearing to decide if there is any merit in the case continuing. A full hearing often takes longer than an hour.


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It says notice of hearing , and says half way down 1 hour has been allocated to hear the evidence and decide the claim .

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So, I would call and check it is still ok to bring a bundle on the day

 

You are probably too late to request anything from yoru employer to add to it, and you need to make sure they get a copy in advance with time to respond, so you need to be on this tomorrow and getting it delivered to them same day!

 

You need it to match the claim; so what you wrote on the ET1 form.

 

I am guessing all the one man two man crew stuff is just background and your claim is about being paid short? Is that what you wrote on the form?

 

So you just need your contract and pay slips, and documentation saying you asked for it to be rectified.

 

And you will need 6 copies.

 

http://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/t425-eng.pdf


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yes that right basically an underpayment by my employers and what i wrote down in the ET1 . Can i send the documentation by email . And also my ex manager is prepared to email me confirming that i did not agree to the new work changes and it was agreed that i could continue on the same work structure at the same pay . Do you think this would help ?. once again many thanks i really appreciate your help

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Personally this late in the game I'd withdraw and put it through small claims court,if it's purely cash. Much less hassle. There's no guarantee your request for late submission will be agreed.

 

If not, you could see if the court would move the hearing, although I'm not sure you have any good mitigating circumstances.

 

From the link I posted you'll see your employer should have documents seven days in advance. Late, and by email, is not great. But you can ask if they'll accept them. You do need hard copies for court.


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Just to comment, the OP probably can't withdraw at this stage as they will have paid for the case to be heard - and that's a lot of money to walk away from. Small cases like this are often listed for several in a day, so an hour sounds about right - it is entirely possible this is the full hearing. But if the OP had not submitted any evidence in support of their claim, then that isn't useful - whether you understand the process or not, you are required to follow the procedures and it is your responsibility to know what you must do. If there is, effectively, no evidence, then the employer has nothing to prove or disprove. It is for the claimant to prove they are owed money.

 

It is highly unlikely that any credence will be given to the ex manager. To use their evidence it must be a witness statement, they must attend the tribunal, and an email won't cut out.

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Does this mean i cannot rely on any evidence at all on friday ??

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You may ask the tribunal to accept it. But if they go by the letter of procedure - no you cannot use the evidence. Generally a tribunal had the power to accept tabled evidence only if the evidence could not have been disclosed in advance. So, for example, something that has just come to light. Otherwise it isn't accepted. And evidence is something different from witness statements. Your former manager is a witness, not evidence.

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