Tax Credits Overpayment - no income of my own

[mrsd1]

Hi all,

 

I received a letter yesterday from Rossendales saying I had to pay almost £3300

within 7 days due to HMRC saying I owe for overpaid Tax Credits from 2009-2010.

 

 

I disputed the overpayment at the time, as HMRC wanted proof of my childcare costs

and I was in dispute with my childminder at the time for an incident with my daughter

where I removed her from their care and they refused to give me receipts,

saying their paperwork was with their lawyer as they were going to do me 'for slander'....

 

 

I explained this to HMRC and said I couldn't provide the receipts.

Haven't heard anything for at least 4 years now,

and all of a sudden I have this letter from Rossendales saying they are collecting it.

 

My personal circumstance has changed massively since the dispute,

I am now married and a homeowner,

however I am currently on maternity leave which will become unpaid after the end of February,

where my only income will be my child benefit (my husband wants me to stay at home).

 

Question one - if I have no income myself, what can I say to Rossendales?

Question two - will they take my husband's wage into consideration? I wasn't living with him at the time of the supposed overpayment and the debt would not be his.

Thanks in advance

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

I will try and find someone who can help.

[mrsd1]

Thanks. Any advice would be great. They have just texted me asking to call them.

Not sure how they have my mobile number...

[Bailiff Advice]

Can you post back to let us know whether the letter that you have recently received is called a Notice of Enforcement. It should have a date of issue and a date by when you must contact the company to either pay or to make a payment proposal. Can you let us know both dates.

[mrsd1]

It doesn't say Notice of Enforcement on it.

It just has details of the Client, amount, reference number, their reference and the date of 11th Jan.

Then the letter says i have 7 days to pay in full or to contact them to make a payment plan.

[citizenB]

I suspect this is Rossendales working in their capacity as Debt Collection Agent rather than as Bailiffs.

 

 

If you are able to depersonalize the letter they have sent you and upload to your thread, we will be able to tell you for sure.

[mrsd1]

Think Ive attached it...

[citizenB]

Righto they are acting in their capacity of Debt Collection Agents NOT Bailiffs

- whilst I would advise you wait for more knowledgeable people to respond

- I think you need to raise the issue of the dispute again

asking them to provide proof of the balance and how it has been calculated.

 

Do you now have access to the receipts that were being withheld by your childminder ?

 

You should be able to send a Subject Access Request to HMRC

(this is a request for data and might provide information regarding the balance).

 

IMHO, I think you should keep everything in writing when contacting Rossendales

- either receipted email or by snail mail with proof of posting.

[Bailiff Advice]

It doesn't say Notice of Enforcement on it.

It just has details of the Client, amount, reference number, their reference and the date of 11th Jan.

Then the letter says i have 7 days to pay in full or to contact them to make a payment plan.

 

CitizenB is correct in that this debt is from the Debt Collection part of Rossendales (as opposed the the bailiff/enforcement agent side). Accordingly, they cannot seize goods of yours and neither can they charge enforcement fee. If the debt is dipsuted then I would do as CitizenB advises and dispute the debt in writing.

[mrsd1]

Thanks for the replies. I still wouldn't have receipts from the childminder, they have moved since.

What would the subject access request do if I'm still unable to prove my childcare fees? Do I raise the dispute with Rossendales and how do I go about that?

 

I feel that as I cannot prove my fees, this will never be written off, and then I am back to needing to pay it, at what point do I tell them I have no income of my own? Will they demand payment by my now husband?

[ericsbrother]

a complaint to your MP about HMRC would be worthwhile, not because they will definitely get anything sorted but because they will be minded to have a go at the minister whose portfolio it is.

Sometimes it can yield results, depends on MP.

[citizenB]

If this "debt" is solely yours, then they shouldn't be able to make your new husband responsible for it.

[dx100uk]

several threads here on DCA's chasing Gov't benefits or whatever debts.

 

ignore the DCA totally

 

liaise with HMRC direct

 

if necessary send HMRC a Free SAR.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

Subject Access Requests (SAR) can be received by email, letter or fax, but the request must be in writing. The request will be to see copies of all customer records including telephone calls

 

The customer can make a request for all records, telephone calls or computer records. This is known as a full SAR request. Any requests for correspondence, claim forms or award notices should be dealt with as ‘routine business’

 

A SAR request can also be for copies of

 

telephone calls only. This will be dealt with by the Call Retrieval Team situated at the Contact Centre head office in Manchester

telephone calls and correspondence. The Call Retrieval Team will deal with the telephone calls on this request and Tax Credits Office (TCO) will deal with the correspondence.

The SAR Team gather the information once they have established the type of SAR request

 

The information needed for the SAR must be sent to the SAR Team within 5 working days of any HMRC Office receiving the SAR request

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tcmanual/tcm0138280.htm

[mrsd1]

Hi,

I have been advised I owe HMRC Tax Credits overpayment dating back from 2009 of £3300.

I have been through disputes and SAR etc,

but as I am unable to provide childcare receipts from this time,

I cannot get out of having to repay.

 

My question though:

 

The debt is from when I was a single parent, living alone with my daughter.

I am now married, and I stay at home with my new son and my daughter.

I have no income other than child benefit.

 

My husband has nothing to do with this debt as it was from before we lived together.

We have not claimed any tax credits since moving in together in 2011.

 

Will HMRC demand payment from my husband for this debt?

Or can I call them and ask them to put any repayment plan on hold until a time when I am working again (likely to be from Sept 2018 when my son will be able to have funded childcare.)?

[GamerNic]

They cannot ask your husband to pay your debt, however if you call to discuss a repayment plan I don't know what they look at for incoming/outgoings assessment. Had a quick look and the form is not published so unless someone has seen it before, don't know if his income included in calculation.

 

Just in case things change & you were to make a joint tax credit claim -they might claw back your overpayment from there.

[ericsbrother]

Have HMRC actually proved the overpayment exists?

They like to assume things because the law allows them to do so and force you to prove a negative

 

They can only take it from any benefits that you may receive, either now or in the future and at a rate determined by your disposable income but that will include hubby's.

 

 

if you dont get any benefits, including state pension they cant collect it at present,

I wouldnt be in a hurry to be paying anything to them yet and see what happens when you return to work and would wish to claim for childcare costs then.

 

Limitations Act prevents them from taking any other action so dont be volunteering to pay them with real money

[mrsd1]

Thank you both for your replies.

 

The trouble with the whole thing, and why I had it in dispute previously, is that back when this all was being paid, I had a big falling out with the childminder I was using, for hitting my child.

 

 

I withdrew her immediately from their services and it all became rather nasty, with them making threats etc.

 

In all of this,

I had no receipts for the childcare I had paid for (stupidly had paid cash, first childminders I had ever used and hadn't asked for receipts as didn't expect things to go like they did)..

 

 

I had no proof that I had actually paid any childcare.

The childminders refused to give me receipts,

telling me that they were with their lawyers

(I'm guessing as I was paying cash, they never declared it themselves, but that's another matter).

 

So despite me disputing it, and being entitled to the payments in the first place, I haven't been able to prove anything, so I have to pay them back.

 

I've actually just rang them, the guy couldn't have been nicer.

 

 

My debt has been put on hold, in a few months I can expect another letter asking if circumstances have changed etc etc and I'm to contact them once I am working again, but until I am, I can't be expected to pay it off.

 

I feel like a huge weight has just been lifted off my shoulders,

I've had the letter a week now and have not been sleeping and too scared to mention to my husband in case they demanded the money from him.

 

 

I had a previous letter in January 2016 and had ignored it hoping it would go away and it always niggled at me that it would catch up.

 

If anyone else is in similar circumstances, they were really lovely and just call them and get it sorted. Don't bury your head in the sand like I have been for so long.

[dx100uk]

it is unreasonable for them to want you to produce receipts for something that happened over 6yrs ago.

[mrsd1]

The disputes etc all happened a few years ago.

 

I have been stupidly ignoring it for a long time hoping it would just go away on it's own.

 

I'm sure that the timings were all ok back then with them asking for the proof,

 

I just haven't been able to sort it out and it's been a few years since they asked for the money back,

until Jan 2016 and again last week.

[ericsbrother]

you still dont get it,

you dont have to pay them back and they cant force you to.

 

As said,

they can take it out of your pension or other benefit at some time in the future but only at a cartain level.

 

I would still be fighting this,

have you made a formal complaint about it?

If so did they respond and did you then dispute that response and ask your MP to take the matter up with the Governamnt Ombudsman? No?

 

well you know what to do next and it isnt sitting there bemoaning your accpeted fate.

Get after them and make them justify their actions and assumptions..

 

If someone else is a tax dodger then you say you are happy to make a statement to the effect of I paid £x per week for y weeks to whoever and they never gave me a receipt etc and if there is anyone who can help corroborate this name them as well.

 

It is not about getting someone else into trouble, it is about rubbishing HMRC's claim

Edited June 30, 2017 by dx100uk

[mrsd1]

Update to this thread -

 

I've just had a man pounding on my door (I was getting out of the shower, my toddler son is napping)..

. I go down and see who it is and he says he is from HMRC and wants to come in to go through my finances.

 

 

I was shocked and scared, I had been reassured on the phone in June that the debt was suspended and that all I would get is a letter and would just have to call them again to suspend further until I start working again and can start to repay them.

 

The guy is coming back on Friday morning (I was in a towel and in tears on the doorstep)...

I called HMRC and they've said it is genuine and that I should never have been told that I wouldn't have people knocking on my door again

(I was under the impression that I'd just need to call whenever they wrote to me and let them know when I work again, so would not have bailiffs etc or threatening letters anymore)

 

I'm still sat here in tears, I don't understand what he is going to look at or how I prove I have no income of my own other than child benefit.

 

I can't believe they can just turn up unannounced and pound on your front door

- I'm actually physically shaking and almost had a panic attack when he left.

 

 

I have nothing to hide but then I have never falsely claimed but could never prove otherwise and just feel this is all out of my control now.

[London1971]

I would imagine it's not HMRC direct, more than likely a powerless DCA pretending to have the powers of a Bailiff or the Police!

They are trying to make you feel like you are a criminal, which you are most certainly not!

 

You do not need to answer your door,

write a letter of complaint to HMRC that you had a threatening man knocking on your door,

while you were alone with your son and was terrified for both of your safety.

Personally if he comes around again, just call the police, without hesitation!

 

Next thing you need to do is start an appeal,

Google how to do this.

It involves to start sending off an

 

SAR

Filling in Tax credit form TC846

 

The repayments they are asking for are ridiculous, the reality is that HMRC will take your income into account and none of this will go on your credit file at all! I had a £12,000 'demand' and the figure of £50 per month was discussed, once I actually found someone sympathetic at the Tax Credit Office.

 

I managed to get the whole ridiculous overpayment overturned. anyway !

 

I also found that once I received the SAR (500 pages!!) I found holes wide enough to drive a bus through. Someone at the Tax Credit office had exaggerated my salary by £6000!

 

Also may I ask? Have you tried making another claim. If you are entitled to even a fiver per month, they will take it all as payment and get right off your back!!

 

Hope this helps, any questions feel free to ask!

[dx100uk]

powerless DCA

 

 

you fell for it.