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    • We are not offended. But we try to give you advice all the way and you seem to want to go your own way including hiding the identity of the breeder – for whatever reason, I can't possibly fathom – except that during the time that you have been hiding their identity, other animals presumably may have been at risk and other purchasers also may have had difficulty. Had you posted the identity of the breeder here, people might have stumbled on this information and become aware. It seems to me absolutely normal that if you start taking advice from somebody then you stick with it. We are not offended, but is a bit frustrating to feel that we are putting effort into helping you – but in fact you are off doing your own thing and not necessarily in your best interests. Anyway, you've sent a 28 day letter so you have to stick with it. You say you haven't done this kind of thing before so you need to read around and find out the steps involved in taking a small claim in the County Court. Now you have a decision as to whether to look at the advice we give here on that or go to Which? or whoever else you may have been consulting. One of the problems about having gone to Which? is that although they have effectively given you a letter of claim to copy out which gives 28 days before taking legal action, they didn't explain to you that 28 days wasn't necessary and that the pre-action protocol only requires 14 days. So you came away from them not really understanding the whole story and the choices you had. I'm afraid I was find it very frustrating that these organisations which purport to inform and empower consumers don't tell them the whole story.   The reason why Which? gives this kind of softer advice is because they don't want to alienate themselves from corporate interests and they don't want to seem to be to pushy. Unfortunately we have found over 15 years that in order to assert your rights properly, you need to be pushy. The County Court papers are the great Equalizer between you and all sorts of commercial interests including huge multinationals. Still, let's see maybe your breeder will respond within 28 days with something satisfactory. However, you better be prepared and ready to take the next step – if you know what that is
    • Well it sounds like a breach of contract which has substantially deprived the purchaser of the entire benefit of the contract – which amounts to a breach of condition which means that the contract can be treated as terminated. After that  section 75 consumer credit act   See if there has been any communication with the finance company. Send them an SAR – do it now.
    • I didn't realise there was much difference, this is my first time doing anything like this so maybe a bit ignorant. Sorry for any offence caused.
    • We probably signed it around Oct 2018 On the original sofa we received back in jan 2019. Harvey’s agreed to replace that one as it basically fell apart within months so the replacement was on the same agreement which we ordered October 2019 We have around £900 outstanding on the finance.     
    • Well don't think I'm being territorial about it, but you come to us for help and then you use templates and advice from other organisations. I don't understand why you mix and match. 28 days is far too long – especially given the difficulties you have had so far. Pre-action protocol only requires 14 days. The 28 day now takes you slap into Christmas and New Year's et cetera and causes additional complications. You should understand that organisations like Which?, Citizens Advice and so forth are all very well but their approach is far too gentle and am afraid that to deal with companies or traders that won't honour their consumer obligations to you, you need to be assertive and keep them on the back foot. I'm not too sure how you think that giving the breeder 28 days rather than 14 days places you at any kind of advantage or that the breeder is likely to be more cooperative. Short, rigid deadlines are far more likely to keep your potential defendant focused on the issues. You have sent the 28 day letter now so there's nothing you can do about it. However I think you need to settle on where you are going to take your advice from and stick with it. We are quite happy to stand aside – and it would be better if you did decide because unlike Which? and citizens Advice we don't get paid and we put our effort in for free.
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Transaction lists and credit card statements


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This is a bit of a technical question for long standing bank employees or other retail banking experts about the way data is sent to a customer following a DSAR. I wasn't sure which forum to post it on because it could be relevant in PPI complaints and bank charges, sorry if it should be elsewhere.

 

my query is;

why does a bank send you lists of transaction histories instead of copies of the original statements for current accounts and yet for credit card accounts they send you a full hard copy with all the original data just as you had received it years before.

 

 

When I phoned the bank to ask, the clerk said that's just how they are printed from microfiche.

 

Does anyone know why you cannot request a copy of the original current account statement?

I can't imagine the banks removed all your original statement details and just retained the transactions and account number before they archived it, or did they?

 

Thanks to whoever can explain the process

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cause they only have to keep transaction history on a bank account

its not covered by things like the consumer credit act and isn't a 'bill' like what credit card statements are like.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is a bit of a technical question for long standing bank employees or other retail banking experts about the way data is sent to a customer following a DSAR. I wasn't sure which forum to post it on because it could be relevant in PPI complaints and bank charges, sorry if it should be elsewhere.

 

my query is;

why does a bank send you lists of transaction histories instead of copies of the original statements for current accounts and yet for credit card accounts they send you a full hard copy with all the original data just as you had received it years before.

 

 

When I phoned the bank to ask, the clerk said that's just how they are printed from microfiche.

 

Does anyone know why you cannot request a copy of the original current account statement?

I can't imagine the banks removed all your original statement details and just retained the transactions and account number before they archived it, or did they?

 

Thanks to whoever can explain the process

 

Simple explanation is this.

 

Current account statements when issued originally are for a set period e.g one month or three months worth of statements. The statements might be for say 7th May to 6th June, so not starting on 1st of month, as it depends on date the account was originally set up. The statements are not stored on the Banks system, as January 2017, February 2017 etc. Therefore when they come to deal with an SAR, they enter the start date/end date and it just prints off a long list of transactions for the whole period. They can't just hit one button to recreate all statements issued as they were previously.

 

The information contained will be just the same though.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you for both responses.

 

I get that about the credit card statement being a bill,

 

but you don't receive all the original data with a current account transaction list,

for instance on a direct debit notation.

 

All you would see is the date,

the name of the business being paid

and the amount debited,

not the reference number which you might need for a pre regulation ppi complaint.

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do you know it was there in the first place?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So ask the Bank for the missing data to be shown on the transactions.

They just need to set the correct parameters and any data will be printed off.

It might be that branch staff don't know how to do this, but if they asked their IT, they can do this.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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do what?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

but if you know that information is missing, you must already have it, so why is this a problem?

or

what is it that's missing that you think you need?

 

 

we can keep guessing what you are trying to ask all night at this rate?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I used to have the info and now I am trying to get the bank to find it. Hopefully if unclebulgaria67 tells me what the correct parameters tomorrow I'll be able to make some progress, thanks and goodnight

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dates are what UB is talking about

what info are you missing

to do with what?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites
I used to have the info and now I am trying to get the bank to find it. Hopefully if unclebulgaria67 tells me what the correct parameters tomorrow I'll be able to make some progress, thanks and goodnight

 

What i meant, is that you need to ask the Bank to show all transaction information in full, as it would have done on the original statements, rather than just a summary of transactions.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Some might. It depends on their archive system. Financial services companies don't always have brilliant IT systems and frontline staff might not have access to data. I would expect all companies to have full data going back 12 years, but beyond that it is more difficult, as very old records may just get deleted.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Okay thanks, my bank supplied all the current account transaction lists going back to 1990 but the original direct debit references numbers were missing, so in your opinion do you think they were probably deleted when no longer required? I was hoping they may have left a footprint somewhere in the bank' s archive systems.

 

I did notice that in the case of a direct debit set up by my bank for one of their own products, the reference number was still visible on the transaction list but not other businesses direct debits from over twenty years ago.

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From what you have explained, your Bank supllied all data they had available. With an archive system, you can't recreate what is not there. It is not like a live system of data, where you have option of what data you want to print out.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Thanks unclebulgaria, on that point, what if all the data was there at the time the transactions were archived to microfiche, would the bank go to the trouble of removing some of this data from microfiche records, in the future, just because it was no longer required?

 

As I said in my previous post my bank had retained and archived their own direct debit reference numbers on the transaction lists but not those of other businesses that I was paying at the same time. Can you explain this or any other knowledgable poster reading this thread? Sorry if I am making hard work of it but I would like to understand the process of data archiving and retrieval by the banks.

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RS what info are you trying to findout who the DD went too?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thanks dx100,

I have the names of the other businesses,

the dates

and the amounts paid by direct debit on the transaction lists ,

 

 

I just need the DD reference numbers that were shown on the original statements during the 1990's because they often contain the account number of the credit finance.

 

This is the information I am searching for and the SAR did not reveal it.

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so why cant you gain those by sar to the named original creditor?

as this is in the PPI forum, i'll guess its to do with reclaiming PPI?

you don't need the account numbers to sar the OC

ok you need the account numbers to fire a reclaim off but it should be easy to match the bank DD dates to payment date from the OC's statements?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites
Already tried that, the original creditor said they cannot locate any details without the account number, sending them a copy of the direct debit transaction did not help due to its age

 

What about a list of Direct Debit authorities on the bank account ? Can the Bank supply that.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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I might try that, however, would the bank retain DD authorities going back twenty years in microfiche. Don't they delete DD details six years after they've ended?

 

There might be an electronic record of DD's, but probably not microfiche. The Bank would have processed adding the DDA and then it is most likely to have been destroyed if it were a paper version. Most DDA's are set up electroncally with the originator communicating the details to the Bank via a centralised system.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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