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Lloyds - repossession likely


Frantic50
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Hi there

 

I have today received court papers for possession of our home and really need some help.

 

A brief outline of the story so far :

 

In 2011 took out a business loan for £143K (£12K of which was an EFG loan) secured on residential property.

 

Business closed in 2012.

Lots of issues with Lloyds including the fact they claimed back the EFG and also have tried to claim it back from me.

 

Repossessed the commercial property which was the 1st charge and as a result of 'fire sale' was left with a short fall of £100K which they are now claiming against the house.

 

Statements sent have been incorrect i.e. saying we owe more than we do etc, etc

 

There are too many issues to list but subsequently we have been fighting this for five years.

However, received the papers and just want to check a few things as never been through this before.

 

A set of papers have been sent to both me and my partner who is on the joint mortage.

 

There is a defence form (N11M).

Do we both fill one of these in ?

The information will be the same as it is about income/expenditure etc.

 

Do we send this form back to the court prior to the date of the hearing ?

I assume we do otherwise the court will not be aware of the issues we have had.

 

Also, can we add additional pages to the document as the space provided to fill in with information is very small.

 

The times for the hearing are different for me and my partner.

I'm in at 12.00 and she's in at 12.20.

I pressume we go in together as it is a joint mortgage.

So I am a bit confused by this.

 

Also, the paperwork submitted by Lloyds says

"this mortgage is of an all monies nature" which I was unaware of.

 

I have also read on various threads that this is a big problem and courts are powerless when it comes to negotiating any repayment.

 

If anyone can help answer any of these questions I would be most grateful.

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sorry no-ones helped yet

repo is not my bag as such

why have you both got to do forms?

 

 

is this a joint debt

and do you both joint own the property?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sneaky......all-monies-clause

 

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/issues/9-may-2005/all-monies-clause-should-be-made-clear-to-borrowers/

 

Certain lenders have such a clause and, where this exists, the mortgage secures not just the amount your client borrows now, but also any other sum that any person signing the mortgage comes to owe to the lender in whatever manner, at whatever time and at whatever branch, and with or without the other party’s knowledge or consent. These are really sneaky clauses – great from a lender’s perspective because they effectively convert unsecured borrowings such as personal loans, credit cards and overdrafts into secured debt but bad news for borrowers who have little idea that their potential liability has been widely extended

 

The following link may be of interest

 

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=690382cd-a5fd-47dd-8ceb-4cd231738395

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for that Andy. Sneaky ! .... you can say that again. Had no idea this was an 'all monies' loan. Didn't even know what that was until the last couple of days. Our local Council Housing Advice Team have advised that a court can do nothing else other than grant a repossession when an 'all monies' mortgage is involved. Do you know if that is the case ??

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Not if the loan was in your name only...they can only consider your share of equity on a joint mortgaged property.Please tell me the mortgage is not held with Lloyds also?

 

You state you have both been served papers,,,did your wife sign the EFG ( Enterprise Finance Guarantee ) loan also?

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy

 

The business loan was only in my name. As was the EFG. My wife signed the document allowing for the house to be used as security as the residential mortgage is in both our names. And yes, sorry to say mortgage is with Lloyds. Was Cheltenham and Gloucester (which I believe was Lloyds in some guise or another).

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Is it possible to scan in and upload the claim form (redacted) ?

 

A copy of the Loan agreement if you have it.

 

What type of EFG Loan?

 

What dates are we working towards with regards to submitting the N11M

We could do with some help from you.

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5. THE GOVERNMENT GUARANTEE

 

By providing lenders with a government-backed guarantee for 75% of the value of each individual loan, subject to a cap on the total exposure across a lender’s annual portfolio of EFG-backed lending, government and lenders share the risk and facilitate lending that would otherwise not take place. The guarantee provides protection to the lender in the event of default by the borrower – it is not insurance for the borrower in the event of their inability to repay the loan. As with any other commercial transaction, the borrower is responsible for repayment of 100% of the EFG facility. The 75% guarantee to the lender does not mean that the borrower is only liable for 25% of the debt. Where defaults occur, the lender is obliged to follow their standard commercial recovery procedures, including the realisation of any security held and calling upon any personal guarantees which may have been provided, before they make a claim against the government guarantee. The interest rate charged and any other fees and charges applied to the loan are commercial matters for the lender. In addition to the costs and fees charged by the lender, businesses supported under EFG are required to pay a 2% annual premium which partially covers the cost of providing the guarantee. The premium is assessed and collected quarterly in advance throughout the life of the loan based on the outstanding capital balance of the loan (for invoice finance and overdraft guarantees the premium is assessed on the agreed facility limit). The borrower is provided with a premium schedule by the lender as part of their loan documentation and collection is made by Direct Debit under the description ‘BIS LOAN GUARANTEE’.

 

6. SECURITY AND PERSONAL GUARANTEES

 

Under EFG, lenders are entitled to take security, including personal guarantees. This is standard commercial practice and an established mechanism for ensuring a degree of personal commitment to repayment of the loan by individuals with a beneficial interest in the business. The only exception from normal commercial practice is that lenders are expressly prohibited from taking a charge over a principal private residence of a borrower or guarantor as security for an EFG facility. In EFG this means there is a three-way risk sharing between borrower, lender and the government. The extent of any security or guarantee taken is a commercial matter for the lender, but any security taken applies to the debt as a whole and may not be attributed solely or preferentially to cover the 25% of the EFG loan not covered by the government guarantee. The borrower always remains liable for repayment of 100% of the loan and, in the event of a default, any remaining loss faced by the lender after recoveries will be borne between government and lender in the ratio 75:25. EFG should not be seen by borrowers or their advisers as a mechanism for putting personal assets beyond consideration. If the lender refuses to offer EFG on the basis that the borrower had access to security which they were not prepared to put forward, then the lender’s decision would be fully supported by BIS.

 

http://british-business-bank.co.uk/ourpartners/supporting-business-loans-enterprise-finance-guarantee/understanding-enterprise-finance-guarantee/

We could do with some help from you.

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I'll see what I can do. Not the most computer savy person but I'll see if I can do it. Are there any instructions on here somewhere telling how to do it? I have a copy of the claim form (quite a big document) and the loan agreement. Not sure what you mean by type of EFG Loan Andy. When we took out the loan the equity etc we had would only allow the bank to lend us £133K. We needed £144K. We were then offered the £11K difference as an EFG.

 

When it all went belly up they claimed this back from BIS but still tried to get it from me. Also, different things I have read says that they can not use residential property as security for an EFG so not sure where we stand with that as the EFG element did not cover all the money.

 

Regarding the N11M. The court date is 24 July. To be honest, started filling them in (wife and I both have one) however finding some questions really difficult to answer.

 

I doubt I'll get to sort out the scanning of the documents tonight. Need to sort some domestic/kids stuff out but will give it a try tomorrow.

 

Cheers Andy

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follow the upload

 

 

try and make multipage PDFs

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ah okay so the bulk was not through the EFG..only 11K...so a mixture of agreements or all in one agreement?

 

No problems scan when your ready but be aware the clock is ticking if you require assistance with the N11M

We could do with some help from you.

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Two separate agreements. I think if it had all been through an EFG we may have been reasonably safe regarding the house. Not sure where we stand with it only being a relatively small %. Thanks for all your assistance tonight. Really appreciate it.

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Scan both agreements when you get chance...lets have a go at this " All Monies " clause..that I assume is in the £133K agreement ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy. Attempted to scan docs in today but my antiquated scanner just wasn't up to the job. I'm taking it to work to do it first thing. Sorry to sound an idiot but not sure what I do once I've got it all scanned in and how I get it to you.

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Many thanks Frantic...I will peruse them tonight

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Just a quick question for anyone who may be able to advise.

 

In short we have a possession hearing on 24 July due to a business loan debt.

 

During all our dealings with the bank over this issue we have not been sent any form of statement since February 2014.

 

In the court papers there are two amounts owing stated.

 

One is in a letter from November 2016 and states £97K.

In the claim document is states £87K.

 

I want to ask them for an up to date statement so I know what's going on

but I wonder if I may have some small advantage in court if I can say that I do not agree with the amount owed as there appear to be discrepancies and I have not received any statements.

 

Not sure what's best.

 

Any opinions ??

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I wouldnt wait until the day but get a demand for clarity sent to the claimant and a coy to court.

If you have any comparative figures of your own then use them as well to create an impression that their numbers are wrong and thus soother things could be

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Hi Frantic...apologies..I have not forgot you ...will post some information tomorrow.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi all. Don't know if anyone can answer this? Just had yet more documents for the hearing on 24 July. This is a Witness Statement from the Banks' solicitors which it says it intends to rely on at the hearing. In it it says :

 

I respectfully ask the court that :

 

13. The Defendants deliver to the Bank vacant possession the Property within 28 days of the

order; and

 

13.1 The Bank's claim for money judgement against the First Defendant be adjourned generally

with liberty to restore.

 

Anyone know what 13.1 actually means ?

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One liners are of no assistance Frantic...can you scan and post the full order redacted ?

We could do with some help from you.

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