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Right to Demand Reasons for Suspension


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My letter will cover:

 

  • They've barred me from talking to staff from that organisation, I'm very friendly with a number of people. I want clarification that if someone now contacts me and wishes to maintain a non-professional relationship with me, this is acceptable.
  • The company premises is also a very public place, I want clarification what 'company premises' means. Does it mean the office space or does it extend to the public areas. I actually have to walk through this to get to my station when I am in town.
  • I want my belongings.
  • I want them to cancel my conference registration before the remaining charges are taken from my card.

 

I'm not going to raise any other issues. I've received a number of messages of support this morning as the word has somehow got out. It's had a very calming effect on me. Plus typing it all out on here has helped massively.

 

Thank you all for 'listening' and your advice.

 

I say: Forget all of that.

Point 1 and 2 is just plain stupid: Nobody apart from a court of law can bar someone from talking to friends.

If they own the land used publicly to go to the station, most likely there's a right of way registered at land registry and they can't overrule it, anyway, what are they gonna do if they find you crossing this path?

Nothing.

Your stuff is yours, so if they don't return it, sue them.

Make sure you send an email listing all the stuff you want back (including your gold watch), so it's all recorded.

Regarding point 4, cancel the card and tell the bank not to pay out any more money.

Then claim what you have already paid via the normal procedure.

You don't work for them anymore, they can't tell you what to do.

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Hi

 

I've sought legal advice on this. I've focused mainly on my suspension on this forum and have not told you the full events leading up to this. I'm not the only person to have complained about a certain individual and I'm not the only one to have suddenly left following a grievance against this person. I'm also the third person to have done my job in less than a year. Also the accusation of speaking to non-staff members on another organisation's premises does not sit right. It's one of many lies.

 

The support I've got today from peers in my industry has been untold. A group of them rallied together to drag me out for a drink tonight. Yep, good old harasser me :)

 

My belongings - they have told me because I am not allowed on company premises these will be sent to me.

 

The premises - I am going to ask them to clarify. I can't tell you about the premises because it will expose the company.

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Hi

 

I've sought legal advice on this. I've focused mainly on my suspension on this forum and have not told you the full events leading up to this. y.

 

1. Then why post here?

 

2. Advice without full background will be inaccurate

 

If you need to be c!oak and dagger here, I suggest you stick to advice from your lawyer who presumably has the whole story.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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1. Then why post here?

 

2. Advice without full background will be inaccurate

 

If you need to be c!oak and dagger here, I suggest you stick to advice from your lawyer who presumably has the whole story.

 

 

 

Because my initial query was regarding the situation surrounding my suspension not the problems I had been experiencing before that. I asked what I could do to find out the full details surrounding this suspension. I've been open and honest about that situation, I've told you about the harassment claims and the situation that led to my dismissal, plus the conditions of that dismissal. This has now got bigger than that. Would you like me to post a 9 month history of all the problems I've experienced? Therefore there is no need to turn on me.

 

A couple ex-employees of this company reached out to me last night and this discussion led to my decision to contact a solicitor, who may or may not be able to help me.

 

I've got some amazing advice regarding the suspension which I have followed and I'm grateful for that. I'm disappointed that this discussion has now turn negative towards me.

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Would you like me to post a 9 month history of all the problems I've experienced? Therefore there is no need to turn on me.

 

..........

 

I've got some amazing advice regarding the suspension which I have followed and I'm grateful for that. I'm disappointed that this discussion has now turn negative towards me.

 

Yet, the 'backstory' is relevant, and you've missed the point that the advice you've received might be:

a) correct for the limited story you've given, but

b) wrong for the actual, whole story.

 

I see Emmzzi's post as highlighting this, not "turning on you", nor going "negative on you". You perceiving it that way does indeed make me wonder if there is a whole different backstory.

Do you often find that you consider people either "really helpful to you" ("amazing advice") or "turning on you"? (as you seem to feel Emmzzi has, and the colleague you were friendly with even before working with them who you subsequently unfriended on FB after the "relationship went toxic").

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Emmzzi isn't being negative, she is telling you the truth based on what you said! If someone fails to disclose pertinent facts then the advice we give is often incorrect. And, to be honest, we see an awful lot of "my new lawyer says that your advice is rubbish" when (a) we know it isn't and (b) they found this new lawyer and consulted with them in a five hour period between midnight and 5 am! People on these sorts of boards are frequently attacked for trying to help people - astonishing but true!

 

If you intend to consult a solicitor, please be cautious. Most are very reputable and honest, but there are some who exploit angry and distressed people looking to clear their name by running up bills when they know that legally there are no real options. The problem is that if you don't know the law, you don't know they are doing this until you owe them a lot of money. And if you knew the law you wouldn't be talking too them in the first place! The fact is that unless the employer has committed a CRIMINAL breach, there is very little likelihood that anything that happened in the run up to this is of value. I am sure that there are problems, and a lot of them. I can also predict with 98% accuracy - without even knowing about them - that they are not things that you could legally act on. Until someone gets to that two years of service, there is very very little that employers are prevented from doing, and bullying, harassment, and general nastiness are "allowed". And regardless of length of service, grievances are rarely contractual, and as a result there is no right at any time to appeal the employers inaction or decisions.

 

Do not part with any money, and don't sign anything, unless you are sure you know what your are doing.

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Thanks Sangie for being the voice of reason

 

I took the 'I suggest you stick to advice from your lawyer who presumably has the whole story' to be aggressive. I understand where this now came from.

 

Thanks for the advice about the solicitor. Don't worry I will not be departing with any money, I can't afford to. I will see what this solicitor has to say during the initial consultation. A friend upon hearing what had happen put me in contact with the solicitor by the way on an introduction e-mail so contact was already made before I could say 'thanks' or 'no thanks'. Then these ex-colleagues got in contact and they encouraged me to get the free legal advice.

 

I will let you know what this solicitor has to say.

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Yet, the 'backstory' is relevant, and you've missed the point that the advice you've received might be:

a) correct for the limited story you've given, but

b) wrong for the actual, whole story.

 

I see Emmzzi's post as highlighting this, not "turning on you", nor going "negative on you". You perceiving it that way does indeed make me wonder if there is a whole different backstory.

Do you often find that you consider people either "really helpful to you" ("amazing advice") or "turning on you"? (as you seem to feel Emmzzi has, and the colleague you were friendly with even before working with them who you subsequently unfriended on FB after the "relationship went toxic").

 

Fortunately Sangie has explained why Emmzzi posted what they did so I understand the reason for this post.

 

You have to excuse me but I still don't understand why my backstory would help with the harassment claims against me, but here it is.

 

The colleague who complained about me is very controlling of my workload and my decisions. We don't work for the same department and they certainly don't have the authority to manage me; we are the grading. In meetings he speaks on my behalf and when he discovers I am working on a project for another department, he has his own projects meetings with them (without me) and takes the led. With regards to work for his department, he would send me a request and if I didn't immediately jump he would threaten to report me to his manager or my own manager. He would report it to his manager, the Head of the department who is the company bully, and moments later I will get an e-mail from my line manager telling me just to do it. I then have to delay the urgent work I was working simply because this person said jump. Further to this, if I said no to a request because it was not physical possible to deliver he would against raise this with his line manager and my negative would be discussed in the next director's meeting (my line manager is a director).

 

Further to this, he would pass the work he was suppose to be doing for me to complete. I complied with these requests because I was new and didn't want to be seen as negative. He would also pass all his mistakes to me to fix and then firmly place the blame on me.

 

I was patient with all this. I conducted myself well in meetings and continue our friendship outside work as if none of this was happening. We did discuss what was happening at work and he said his attitude was being driven my his line manager. I wasn't too convince my this explanation as I had seen this behaviour in meetings when his line manager was not present. I explain to him what the impact was to me and he said there was nothing he could do about this.

 

Over time people within the organisation realised I was good at my job so started to come direct to me with their requests and started to ignore this colleague's demands that he be involved. He started to get more controlling of my workload and demanded that I updated him regularly with the status of all my work. Remember he is not my superior, doesn't work in my department.

 

One day I simply had enough so went to my line manager to discuss this behaviour. My line manager asked me to put this in writing and he would take in to the Director of that department. I was initially careful not to name names because what if it was the Head driving this attitude. When my line manager asked 'it's x isn't it?', I explained the situation about the Head and his response that it was b*llsh*t (his exact response). He promised me initial feedback before the end of the week as he was going on holiday but never did.

 

At this time I was offered another job but I didn't want to leave if my situation at my current job was to be resolved, so I spoke to HR in my line manager's absence. They promised to follow this all up and reassured me that they would do their best to help me. They also questioned how I was finding working with my line manager, which surprised me. I explained that he was an absent line manager and had told me he expected me to manage myself. I had no 1:2:1s with him, he never officially approved my holidays and if I needed to request something or had a problem it was best to speak to one of the other senior managers. I also explained that I never received notification that I had passed my probation period. When asked what I felt could be done, I simply said 'I think he needs an administrator for that department'.

 

Shortly after this conversation with HR my situation worsen. This colleague was becoming even more controlling. He would complain about me if I didn't turn up for meetings (I was on holiday or had clashes). He started to question my productivity with my team members and my line manager. I approached him about this and he said 'if I can't see what you are doing then you're not doing anything'. I explained that his only concern should be the work I do for his department. His response was "I'm the xxx expert!". I stepped away at this point.

 

Others in the company became aware of his behaviour towards me and approached me to let me know that they also had problems with this colleague. They also said they were happy I had joined and were grateful that I was taking control of the situation as they never liked having to go through this person to send a request to the person whoever is doing my role.

 

This colleague approached me in a bar to discuss my concerns. He said he missed our chats over coffee (I stopped them because he would report into his line manager plus...) and drinks after work (he started to decline my invites on the basis he was too busy or too tires but I would see him in the local bar 5 minutes later (all he had to say was I'm going out with other people) the other reason for no coffee chats). I told him that I did not wish to discuss as it was not the time nor the place. I was out drinking with friends and wanted to have a good evening. He persisted so I left.

 

The next day my line manager called me into his office to discuss 'informal complaints' made against me to HR. He gave me names, the colleague, his head and the director of this department, and asked me if I was surprised that had complained about me. I was given what had happened the night before and told my manager what happened in the bar. My line manager then proceeded to tell me that these 3 people had asked him to dismiss me in favour of my team colleague who had just recently started (they are very friendly with the Head). He then says he is going through a difficult divorce and really doesn't want another issues on top of that. Immediately I realised that this wasn't right and I needed to get out.

 

 

 

I was meeting a friend after work that day and did so. I bumped into a colleague from my department and all 3 of us drunk a lot of wine and had an amazing time. My colleague and I rushed to get the last train home (we live on the same line) and while doing so bumped into this difficult colleague. I ignored him, my colleague stopped to talk to him. The difficult colleague asked how I was and I grumbled okay. He persisted on asking on how I really was and I said 'you should know having reported me to HR'. I honestly can't remember his response but I burst into tears. Difficult tried to comforted me by hugging me and told him not to but again he persisted. My department colleague rescued me and made sure I got home okay.

 

The next day, when I had sobered up, I realised I shouldn't said what I did plus it was embarrassing for Difficult to have an emotion drunk to deal with so I apologised in writing. He accepted my apology and said he understood why I was so upset and suggested we moved on from this situation. At the same time, I was too upset to come into work so I contacted a senior manager to discuss this. I explained the situation and he agreed that it was obvious that the ENTIRE situation was becoming too much for me, so to work from home that day.

 

I started to write a work diary that day. I needed to record what happened throughout the day. The non-productivity accusations worried me and I was now being accused of something unknown. I also make an appointment with the work counsellor as my mental health is now starting to deteriorate. I'm not sleeping and I have panic attacks as I am approaching the office - I'm constantly later as a result. I tell my line manager about my sleep problems and he says it's to do with the heat.

 

After the station situation my relationship with Difficult improved and my team colleague mentioned that I seemed happier.

 

Fast forward a week and Difficult is back to his old behaviour. He asked me to change a function in the system I manage - I can't it's standard and can not be customised. He threatens to report me to the Head, and does. I go straight to my line manager, who tells me I am reading to much into this. I explain the threat is in writing and you can clearly see it, but am happy to let it lie. I explain I am writing my work diary.

 

For the next two days my line manager checks on my whereabouts. Even when I've just popped out for lunch for 20 minutes. The assumption is he needs to see me so I ask him if he does. He says he is only checking on who is in the office. I tell the colleague he asked this and the response is 'that's odd, he never asked about anyone else and I was the only one here'. Again I realised something is not right but I've nothing to worry about, I've done nothing wrong by popping next door to get a sandwich. As a matter of fact, I'm working my lunch as usual.

 

The following Monday, the suspension happened and you know about that.

 

My new team colleague. They've been brought over from the States and was promised the job long before I came along. They advertised my job for them as a formality. I didn't know this nor did the person who use to do the job. I met my predecessor for coffee to discuss the position and they advise me against applying due to 'office politics'. It was my dream job so I proceed to apply. I never heard back after I applied so assumed I didn't get the job. I got a random phone call from a headhunting agency asking me if I would like to work for this company as a contractor. I jumped at the chance. Just as I was about to sign a contract I got a call asking if I had applied for a permanent role and would I prefer that. Of course I said yes. Two weeks after I started my job was advertised, I approached my line manager and asked why this was so. He explained about the American applicant and that this was a formality. He gave me the job because he needed someone to start immediately and it would take a long time to get them over from the States. Not to worry, we would both be doing the same job as equals as we complimented each other. They arrived thinking they were my manager and upon realising they weren't immediately started 'promoting' themselves. They also refused to speak to me for an entire week because they hadn't been set-up on the system (our line manager forgot to tell the department they were starting therefore we weren't expecting them). I broke all the rules to get them access, they hadn't been through all the security checks. I dealt with HR on their behalf because our line manager hadn't completed the necessary documentation. They reduced me to tears during this time and a senior manager took them to one side to explain it wasn't my fault.

 

Possibly not relevant but my new team colleague crashing the website for 3 hours because the credit card configuration in the database did not match the way it was in the US. So they deleted them. They never got into trouble for this and it was never discussed. It was treated as a joke. We lost a lot of money. I get into trouble if I make a spelling mistake!! My colleagues and I wrote it off and moved on.

 

The conference, my line manager tells us both we can go. My difficult colleague tells two of us from the same team can't go. When I say my line manager has given me permission as always he says he is reporting it to his line manager. I go straight to mine who tells me to ignore this and book the conference. However this intensifies and I hold off; the same thing happened with the last conference I was asked to attend and I had to cut it short as a result. I speak to my colleague about this and they say they have already booked. I remind them that one of us may not be going now and they say 'not their problem'. Again not worried because I do want to leave. Fast forward a couple of weeks and Difficult asks why I have not booked for the conference.

 

This same situation happens with the bi-monthly network meeting. Both of us can't be out of the office at the same time so I suggest we take it in turns. I was too busy to attend the last one, so my colleague attended. When the next is in the diary I ask my colleague if they are still happy that it is my turn to attend. They get aggressive and say our line manager what them to go. I'm confused and feeling slightly upset with all this. It's now becoming apparent this new colleague is favoured over me. They are now taking my projects from me without asking first. I catch them telling another colleague that my work is not up to standard and they need to redo it. I've not received any feedback to suggest this. I raise this with them and they say I am interfering with their work, I remind them it was once my work. The response is "I'm only trying to help". I tell them I happy for them to do so but please ask first. Actually if they asked I would be happy to give them some of my projects. A few weeks later they complain they have too much work to do.

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I left out the part where my line manager tells me when I first complained that my predecessor had cited the exact issues as their reason for leaving. He says he feels like he has failed me. My predecessor was only in the job for about 6 months.

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I suspect that Emmzzi is a northerner like me. I tell people the blunt truth and they don't always like it!

 

:-)

 

I'm the same so I completely understand. And it's probably why I'm here now seeking help.

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:-)

 

I'm the same so I completely understand. And it's probably why I'm here now seeking help.

 

Sadly, I don't think there is much to help on now.

The saga may have been useful while you were suspended, to advise on how to avoid being dismissed.

 

It is irrelevant now (since your dismissal reasons relate to your behaviour since suspension).

 

You've had the advice / help now that you've been dismissed:

1) No grounds to seek compensation for the dismissal as it wasn't based on discrimination against a protected characteristic (and under 2 years service)

2) Move on. Ruminating on 'the unfairness' is less productive than the revenge of succeeding with your life elsewhere, or, as Sangie put it:

 

Your best revenge now is to go on and get another job, then make a success of it. Believe me, it will be far more satisfying.

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The saga may have been useful while you were suspended, to advise on how to avoid being dismissed.

 

 

Sorry, at the time I honestly didn't think my saga was relevant. My head was so full of anger regarding the harassment claims that I couldn't see the connection. I just wanted to focus on clearing my name. Now that it is over I can now see how it was relevant. Again, I'm sorry.

 

You will have to forgive me right now. I'm sure in a couple of days time I will be able to move on and forget the whole sorry situation. But right now I feeling confused, angry, hurt ... all the negative emotions.

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Sorry, at the time I honestly didn't think my saga was relevant. My head was so full of anger regarding the harassment claims that I couldn't see the connection. I just wanted to focus on clearing my name. Now that it is over I can now see how it was relevant. Again, I'm sorry.

 

You will have to forgive me right now. I'm sure in a couple of days time I will be able to move on and forget the whole sorry situation. But right now I feeling confused, angry, hurt ... all the negative emotions.

 

Relevant? Almost certainly. Nothing ever happens in a vacuum. But are there legal remedies? - that is the twist. It's rare that there are, and people don't realise just how few rights they have. Even with two years service. If people realised, union membership would double overnight! Take bullying and harassment - you've had your own experience of this. Do you think that two years would have made an enormous difference? The truth is, probably not. Bullying and harassment are often in the eye of the beholder at the best of times. I regularly talk to members who are saying that their manager is bullying them. What they mean is that their manager is managing them and they don't like it! Where is the line? Well there often isn't one, so it often comes down to the stance the employer takes and nothing else. The same goes for other conduct issues between colleagues - the line (that is, what the employer believes) is not necessarily anything to do with facts and a lot to do with context and other factors. What one person calls bullying, is another person's assertiveness.

 

Just as "occupational stress" is the new little black dress, bullying is another fashion item - yes, both are really serious issues, but they are also convenient hooks. Quite a long time ago, as in decades ago, in my last real job (in case it isn't obvious, I now work for a union) I was where you are. I was accused of bullying my staff. Well, actually I was accused of bullying my sneaking, conniving deputy who had always considered I was the wrong appointment (yes, he applied for my job). Then the employer, who frankly wanted an excuse to get rid of me landed on other staff to lie about me - and in a salutary lesson for all readers, these two were "friends"! I was suspended for SEVEN MONTHS because they laid out their case in exquisite detail. It was damning. Unfortunately for them, I had hard evidence that the allegations were lies. They couldn't proceed with the disciplinary, they got stuck, and time dragged on until the union told them it was a choice of fork up or face legal action. The difference for me was that I had the right to go to a tribunal, I had shed loads of hard evidence (i have never been a trusting soul, and kept records and details of absolutely everything), and I had a union behind me.

 

So I do understand the anger. I had already ripped them to shreds - employer, and lying towrags of former friends. I wanted to drag them into a tribunal and make them pay. And then some. To the point where I had lost all reason, and my union rep had to point out that the deal on the table was MORE than I would ever get at a tribunal! And I STILL wanted to go to a tribunal! But I didn't of course. I took the money and the agreed reference and went to work for the union. After a suitable holiday! So, yes, I get revenge. I get wanting to rip them to shreds. But it is pointless. That anger tears you up. It's you that gets damaged, not them.

 

Although, I can smugly point out that I am now the most senior union official for the area that includes my former employer, and I do sooooo take an interest in making sure that they see a lot of me! It's always delightful to screw with them! They thought they were getting rid of me, and actually what they got was an implacable enemy for nearly three decades! Oops!

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Thanks for sharing your story Sangie. It's given me strength to move on.

 

You would be pleased to know that things seem clearer and calmer this morning and I feel able to move on. After writing my saga I realised that the signs were there all along, from the moment I first walked into the door of that organisation. A friend has offered me a job which is a promotion to my last job. I will be taking it if I'm not offered the job I'm interviewing for on Wednesday. My old employers (prior to this organisation) have also been in contact to let me know they are willing to have me back should the right position become available. Actually the support coming from my previous company has been amazing.

 

And the solicitor, I'm convinced that nothing will come from this. It was a knee-jerk reaction fuelled by those around me encouraging me to get justice.

 

All the very best

 

B x

 

PS the early morning post about the solicitor - I volunteer outside working hours and get home at that hour.

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UPDATE

 

You were all very right, the solicitor said nothing can be done and the company are under no obligation to assist in clearing my name. These allegations will remain on my file for 6 years. They did say I should give my ex-employers written notice that the allegations are false therefore they are not to provide a reference without discussing this with me first, unless the reference is generic.

 

The best news of all is I have a new job after 2 whole days of unemployment. Ex-colleagues and managers have all rallied around to support me which is all I need to help me realise that I'm not the person this company says I am. What was a bad situation has turned around in my favour.

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UPDATE

 

You were all very right, the solicitor said nothing can be done and the company are under no obligation to assist in clearing my name. These allegations will remain on my file for 6 years. They did say I should give my ex-employers written notice that the allegations are false therefore they are not to provide a reference without discussing this with me first, unless the reference is generic.

 

The best news of all is I have a new job after 2 whole days of unemployment. Ex-colleagues and managers have all rallied around to support me which is all I need to help me realise that I'm not the person this company says I am. What was a bad situation has turned around in my favour.

 

I'm very pleased for you. That is a better vindication.

 

I really hope that you didn't pay the solicitor, because that is a load of twaddle. There is no statute of limitations on employment records. Six years is rubbish. It stays there as long as the employer says it does. And such a letter is likely to make more trouble for you. Not less. Provided a reference reflects the truth AS THEY KNOW IT then they can say what they like. The truth is that these allegations were made, and that got were dismissed for misconduct. Throw out a challenge to them about what they can't say in a reference (especially when the can say it) is the shortest route to ensuring that is exactly what they say!

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I'm very pleased for you. That is a better vindication.

 

I really hope that you didn't pay the solicitor, because that is a load of twaddle. There is no statute of limitations on employment records. Six years is rubbish. It stays there as long as the employer says it does. And such a letter is likely to make more trouble for you. Not less. Provided a reference reflects the truth AS THEY KNOW IT then they can say what they like. The truth is that these allegations were made, and that got were dismissed for misconduct. Throw out a challenge to them about what they can't say in a reference (especially when the can say it) is the shortest route to ensuring that is exactly what they say!

 

Cool. I wasn't going to bother with a letter for exactly the reasons you've given. I've already sent them a letter asking for my belongings back and to ask what they want me to with the conference bookings. I don't want to send them another letter. I've got a new job, my new employer knows why I left. I've nothing to gain. I didn't pay the solicitor anything.

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