Registered disabled - violation for parking in a disabled bay!

[sgtbush]

Pay the damn ticket, it was issued correctly. YOU DID NOT,AT THE TIME, DISPLAY A CURRENT AND VALID BLUE BADGE.

Cases have been brought for people using blue badges fraudulently.

Now granted not just using an expired blue badge but were do you draw the line.

A solicitor in Liverpool was fined and had a suspended jail sentence for fraud after she was found to be using her mothers blue badge to park outside of her work. She was also struck off the SRA.

 

You had a choice. You could of not parked, turned round, gone home, got your valid badge, returned and you could of avoided all this mess.

You also could of parked in a normal space and paid the parking fee.

 

Their is no disabled register

Being disabled does not automatically grant a blue badge.

 

Taking your argument on equal rights, can a deaf person park in a disabled space. They are disabled too you know.

 

Pay the ticket, you'll give yourself a heart attack with the stress.

[Sad sam]

Waoh, I didn’t expect some of the abrupt replies.

I got a jist of the position and yes, I have sent of my NtO appeal.

As I have previously said it would be nice if there was clear advice to the disabled to assist when parked, say in an instance where you forget to display your badge.

 

I would have liked to see some precedents quoted, but not 1 has been offered, even though you refer to them!

 

I asked for anyone’s knowledge re ECHR or Equality and Human Rights Commission, as other sites seemed to state that the BB position is not enforceable, if you are registered disabled. But the replies seem to ignore this.

 

The thread has eroded with many just dishing out personal ridicule rather than meaningful advice.

 

Firstly, the park & bays state Disabled free parking. There is NO clear sign regarding the BB requirement. This seems to be forgotten by many or not even read.

Around Warrington there are many parks all with different requirements, some only requiring the clock, so try to remember every different requirement for every park, especially if the requirements are not displayed.

[Sad sam]

 

he could have appealed with a simple apology for using the old badge and sending a copy of the current one and asking for the matter to be looked upon as a matter of mitigation

 

 

Did that as I stated & got nowhere, hence I asked for further advice. Its in my first post!

[sgtbush]

Waoh, I didn’t expect some of the abrupt replies.

 

You have not had abrupt replies.

You have replies that state the obvious and the council fine was issued correctly .

I am absolutely flabbergasted that your argument with the council has gone off at a tangent quoting equality acts tho and disability register that.

Do you know how long its taken for us, disabled people to get a fair shake of the stick? Your making a mockery of the system.

And before you spout off at me,

I AM DISABLED,ihave full DLA, a blue badge and a mobility car.

I was blown up by a IED in Kuwait in 1991 in gulf war 1.

I only have 6 inches of a stump on left thigh, nothing of my right leg due too my pelvis being completely shattered. I have half a pelvis left. I have no use in my right arm, no right eye or ear and half a metal skull. I have no bladder and only around a third of my intestines left.

 

Next time buy a ticket if you forget your blue badge instead of fraudulently using an old one and thinking you can get away with it.

 

Stop quoting equal rights and disability rights.... I know, I've been there and for you to try and get awy with it when you know you did wrong frankly disgusts me and the plight and fights that we disabled people have to do to get our equal rights honored.

You really need to give your head a wobble.

 

To admin, forgive my bluntness in this post, edit or delete as you see fit

[Sad sam]

Pay the damn ticket, it was issued correctly. YOU DID NOT,AT THE TIME, DISPLAY A CURRENT AND VALID BLUE BADGE.

 

Pay the ticket, you'll give yourself a heart attack with the stress.

 

So eloquent. Clearly you have not read my first post.

OMG talk about going of topic. I have a BB, so how do I relate to your solicitor friend.

[Sad sam]

You have not had abrupt replies.

You have replies that state the obvious and the council fine was issued correctly .

I am absolutely flabbergasted that your argument with the council has gone off at a tangent quoting equality acts tho and disability register that.

Do you know how long its taken for us, disabled people to get a fair shake of the stick? Your making a mockery of the system.

And before you spout off at me,

I AM DISABLED,ihave full DLA, a blue badge and a mobility car.

I was blown up by a IED in Kuwait in 1991 in gulf war 1.

I only have 6 inches of a stump on left thigh, nothing of my right leg due too my pelvis being completely shattered. I have half a pelvis left. I have no use in my right arm, no right eye or ear and half a metal skull. I have no bladder and only around a third of my intestines left.

 

Next time buy a ticket if you forget your blue badge instead of fraudulently using an old one and thinking you can get away with it.

 

Stop quoting equal rights and disability rights.... I know, I've been there and for you to try and get awy with it when you know you did wrong frankly disgusts me and the plight and fights that we disabled people have to do to get our equal rights honored.

You really need to give your head a wobble.

 

To admin, forgive my bluntness in this post, edit or delete as you see fit

 

With out those that challenge equal rights we would have none.

Us disabled .... OMG. Sorry I do not believe your fable.

 

Learn the definition of fraud. Its my badge, no fraud.

 

If there are Equal rights to protect Disabled persons, how then have I done anything wrong.

 

You write like a keyboard warrior. You are totally unbelievable.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Sad sam
spelling error

[sgtbush]

Belive what you want, I dont care, it affects me not one jot. FYI I am disabled and had to fight for everything I have. I've had enough hassle from the Moj in getting medical treatments, prosthetics and compensation so your predicament is chicken feed in comparison.

 

You still need to give your head a wobble and get things in perspective.

 

Lets get back to the facts.

You used an invalid blue badge and you were ticketed.

Itsthe drivers responsibility to check each and everytime they park they abide by parking regulations and by-laws.

 

You did not.

You had a choice

You ran the gauntlet and come off worse.

Stop trying to blame everyone else.

Take it on the chin and move on

 

Build an empathy bridge and get over it.

 

Pay the fine and learn from it.

 

Stop looking for sympathy or people to Say oh that's terrible to do that to a disabled person...

[sgtbush]

So eloquent. Clearly you have not read my first post.

OMG talk about going of topic. I have a BB, so how do I relate to your solicitor friend.

 

You used your blue badge that was invalid. How does the CEO know you have a valid one "at home"

Are they part time clairvoyants now?

 

The point is your actions have consequences if you use a bb inappropriately.

Yours was a ticket

Hers was far more serious, blatant fraud, and she ended up with no job and a suspended sentence

[stu007]

I have had a good read of the thread and can see where you are coming from but please you need to tread carefully on this in case they decide on this occasion to make an example and take it further, (see link below) just be careful

 

1. Did you Display a Blue Badge? YES although it was an Expired Blue Badge in your Name

 

2. Was the Blue Badge Valid? NO it was an Expired Blue Badge in your Name.

 

3. Your Vehicle is Registered Disabled? MAKES NO DIFFERENCE to the Penalty Charge Notice issued by the Local Council CEO.

 

4. You were issued a Parking Charge Notice from the Local Council CEO for "Parked in a designated disabled persons parking space without displaying a valid disabled persons badge".

 

5. Although you have a valid Blue Badge and on this occasion due to different cars and a slight lapse in forgetting your valid Blue Badge thus displaying your expired Blue Badge makes no difference to the Local Councils CEO issuing that Penalty Charge Notice? No it was an Expired Blue Badge Displayed.

 

6. Were the actions of the Local Councils CEO in issuing the Penalty Charge Notice correct? YES as you displayed an Expired Blue Badge.

 

7. You do realise that if it is classed as a misuse of a Blue Badge, if they took it further you could face up to a £1,000 fine and confiscation of your Blue Badge. See this link:

 

The Blue Badge scheme: rights and responsibilities in England

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england

[Jamberson]

What a waste of bandwidth.

 

Sad Sam - please follow your right of appeal, explaining it was a mistake.

 

As expected there are zero cases of people being punished for this kind of thing. Don't worry.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Hachi]

I must say I am surprised at some of the replies.

 

This situation is bigger than this 1 instance. What happens when you forget to place your badge? Or your dog knocked it down.

In any of the cases if you have the legal right to a disabled bay, why should a PCN be upheld.

 

I agree and accept in any case were an officer cannot determine with certainty that a vehicle is being used for the carriage of a disabled person, it should receive a PCN.

However once the authority receives proof that the vehicle was being used/parked correctly ie for the use of a disabled person then the ticket should Always be revoked.

 

Mistakes happen, why should the disabled be punished for a simple error. That is not fair or reasonable.

 

 

Parking on Council land is for ALL disabled. Equality Act is very clear on that as is Parliament.

Section 149(4) states how this applies to the treatment of disabled persons:

 

The steps involved in meeting the needs of disabled persons that are different from the needs of persons who are not disabled include, in particular, steps to take account of disabled persons' disabilities.

 

Confusion, forgetfulness MUST hence be considered by LA.

 

But I asked a question, if the BB scheme is clearly for ON-ROAD use, how can you receive a ticket off-road?

 

My uncle had an issue where he parked in a BB holders space only, he knocked it off the dash when he got out and didn't realise. He came back to his car and had a ticket. I submitted a challenge online with a picture of his BB which was valid at the time and got the ticket cancelled. Your badge was not valid, it could of been revoked and you no longer need one for all the CEO knows.

[Sad sam]

On another site I have found specific references to applicable acts & presidential legal cases.

 

I knew I was in the right. The Equality Act takes precedence over any 'contractual' term.

 

As the judge stated the Operator had a legal duty to make a reasonable adjustment' for a genuine disabled person, that an Operator's terms & conditions to display a Blue Badge would circumvent the Equality Act 2010.

 

Its a shame this threat was hi-jacked. If knowledgeable people had input it would have been done & dusted on page 1.

[dx100uk]

and the above operator was?

not a local authority?

[Ethel Street]

On another site I have found specific references to applicable acts & presidential legal cases..

 

Please provide a link to that site so that we can all read it.

 

Thank you.

[Jamberson]

I'm sure that is correct. DDA obliges reasonable adjustments for disabled people, not specifically for those who happen to have blue badges.

[sgtbush]

Please post the ECHR case number so we can do some digging. I have searched and cannot find one case.

There Is, however, a case with a reccomdation on the law to be changed, but the case went against the defendant.

 

I fall back on my original argument.

So a deaf person can park their car in a disabled space, legally, without fear of penalty?

 

They are disabled after all.....

[Jamberson]

The reasonable adjustment depends on the nature of the disability. Councils should be (are) obliged to make provision for people whose mobility is impared, not for people with other forms of disability. It would be a reasonable adjustment to allow parking (ie cancel a PCN) for someone with difficulty accessing the shops, but not reasonable to allow the same for a deaf person.

[sgtbush]

But that's the crux of sams argument.

Disabled people regardless should be allowed to use disabled parking spaces without a bb.

In my opinion they shouldn't be called disabled spaces, they should be referred to as mobility spaces.

 

That's the argument on disability equal rights that Sams trying to point out.

 

But disability spaces are not for all disabled people. They are for people with mobility issues that seriously affect their lives.

[Jamberson]

Yeah, exactly. And I agree with him.

 

He said in his first post, "My disability, severe heart failure, means it takes effort to get to the shops."

 

So the council is obliged under DDA to make provision for him and others in a similar situation, which would mean in practice, allowing him to use those parking spaces. Not the same for someone who's deaf though.

[sgtbush]

I agree too. They should be allows to use the disabled parking bay as Lon as they show their valid blue badge.

 

Quoted from 1st post

I note other posts state the European Court of Human Rights, ruled that disabled parking spaces were there for ALL disabled people and not just blue badge holders;

 

 

so anyone disabled and driving a vehicle, or a vehicle carrying a disabled passenger who are REGISTERED disabled can lawfully use these spaces there is no need to display a blue badge, which is

as placing additional measures. Has anyone come across this?.....

 

 

They are using the human rights act to defend the position. This is an invalid argument.

 

They state ANY registered disabled person (using the human rights act) should be allowed.

 

This simply is not the case

[Jamberson]

Going over the same ground, when the OP says "all disabled people" he means there should be no distinction based on whether the people hold Blue Badges. Using the Human Rights Act to defend the argument is entirely legitimate, because it's the law.

 

Moreover the DDA references disabled people generally, not specifically Blue Badge holders. It would cover, for example, having hearing loops in buildings - which is nothing to do with Blue Badges or exclusivity for Blue Badge holders. Other reasonable adjustments include parking provision for people with mobility issues, both for those who hold blue badges and for those who do not. They are all covered by the act and therefore have the same rights.

 

Councils have a difficult task in deciding who is allowed use these spaces, and they use the Blue Badge as a way of identifying legitimate users. As I see it, CEOs are right to issue PCNs to vehicles they suspect are parked illegitimately in disabled spaces (ie, those without a valid Blue Badge on show). The next reasonable adjustment needs to be made in the appeals process, where a disabled person can show they are entitled to park there due to the nature of their disability, and the council should waive the penalty.

 

It's easier all round if people apply for and correctly use Blue Badges, so that situations like this don't arise. However they aren't obliged to under DDA, and have a legal right to use the obligatory parking provisions.

[Sad sam]

Councils have a difficult task in deciding who is allowed use these spaces, and they use the Blue Badge as a way of identifying legitimate users. As I see it, CEOs are right to issue PCNs to vehicles they suspect are parked illegitimately in disabled spaces (ie, those without a valid Blue Badge on show). The next reasonable adjustment needs to be made in the appeals process, where a disabled person can show they are entitled to park there due to the nature of their disability, and the council should waive the penalty.

 

It's easier all round if people apply for and correctly use Blue Badges, so that situations like this don't arise. However they aren't obliged to under DDA, and have a legal right to use the obligatory parking provisions.

 

Thank goodness back on track with sensible meaningful debate.

I totally agree with your sentiment and position.

 

 

Separately:

Is it reasonable to go to the shops & demand you return home to get the badge you forgot to bring with you, when disability means it is a struggle to get to the shops in the first place?

Or to just pay up?

Waste of bandwidth?

Or fraud prosecution for displaying a BB?

 

Some of the vitriol spewed by some posters has been disgusting. Others in a similar position will read this and be so disheartened.

Some with sever financial issue & some see it as a cash cow for middle men.

 

Or is it a fairer situation that were you forgot to bring your badge, or forgot to display it, that the legitimately issued PCN is revoked upon proof of a valid BB? Seems like a reasonable adjustment.

 

Take heart - The Equality Act takes precedence over any 'contractual' term. If you are unfortunate to be in a position whereby you can legitimately park in a disabled off-road car park, with a valid up to date BB & get a ticket for not displaying it, dont worry.

 

I will post the outcome once my case is reviewed at the appeal stage.

[mikeymack2002]

I did post up a document from the House of Commons library where it clearly stated that disabled bays on private land are advisory bays only and cannot be enforced upon. If you look at my previous posts you will find it.

[Ethel Street]

Sad sam,

 

I repeat my earlier request.

 

As you are still reading this thread it should be straightforward for you to link us to the site you refer to.

 

Thank you.

 

Please provide a link to that site so that we can all read it.

 

Thank you.

[Ethel Street]

I did post up a document from the House of Commons library where it clearly stated that disabled bays on private land are advisory bays only and cannot be enforced upon. If you look at my previous posts you will find it.

 

Is this the document? If so it's the one Sad sam has refered to a number of times.

 

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01360#fullreport

 

In Sad sam's case he wasn't parked on private land, it was a local council car park.

 

But if he had been on private land the report doesn't say disabled bays "cannot be enforced upon". It says:

 

 

• Privately-owned car parks (e.g. most supermarkets car parks):

 

effectively, the landowner (usually a parking enforcement company acting on their behalf) has the power to impose reasonable restrictions. So, in theory (and indeed often in practice) a space can be marked for particular groups, e.g. disabled people, and the company enforcing the parking restrictions may issue a penalty charge to people for parking otherwise than in accordance with the relevant markings or signs.