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    • I am just tidying up the above and noticed something that I'm not sure is important or not. On the claimform they state:- Claimant purchased the balance on the account on 06/10/2016. The letters I received were all dated 24th November 2016   Once I'm ready I assume it's self explanatory entering the information on the moneyclaim site? I've looked around on here and can't see any particular instructions so I'm assuming it's a copy/paste of the defence above?   Thanks
    • Why do you need to write what down please?   AoS is acknowledgement of service via the MCOL website as per dx's instructions. CPR 31:14 is a legal document you need to send to the other side, asking for information.   HB
    • DX - looked back to my old threads on here - the Ordinary Cause was, indeed, thru Nolans, on behalf of Cabot.   Nolan's requested a Joint Motion for the dismissal of this action by way of Decree of Absolvitor, in favour me (Defender), with no expenses due to or by either party   As they couldn't supply any paperwork, my lawyer suggested (I managed to get Legal Aid for this) that unless they dismiss they'd be due me money, and they agreed. This happened around the end of June/beginning of July 2016. What should I do with them now?
    • Hi ok thanks for replies. I had trouble finding how to reply on  my phone and don't have a computer, so am at the library which is pathetic and closes at 5pm so hard to get there   Name of the Claimant ? Excel Parking claimants Solicitors: BW Legal   Date of issue – don't have on me but it was in Sept 2018 (previous claim from 2017 resurrected) * Court date is 17th Dec -Next Tue   Date of issue   ^^^^^ NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING THE TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN THE COUNT [example: Issue date 01.03.2014 + 19 days (5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 19.03.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2014] = 33 days in total   What is the claim for – PCN Not displaying a valid ticket for the private car park 468 Bury New Road, Prestwich I have copied their WS below with map location, signs, etc     **IMPORTANT** WE NEED TO SEE THE FULL POC MINUS YOUR PERS DETAILS>> NOT AN ABRIDGED VERSION**THIS MUST INCLUDE THE LOCATION   What is the value of the claim? original ticket was £100 plus additional fees so its at £255   Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? Original Excel Parking   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not sure what this is?     I WILL TRY TO ATTACH THEIR WS - having trouble Do I just scan it in and attach it?   In the mean time my outline defence is:   No locus standi as have not produce a signed contract Under CPR 31.14 that the claim be struck out on the grounds of no locus   *I requested the contract and they did not provide it initially, however in their WS they have produced a signed contract from the pension fund who own the land    I was not the driver of the car. I have no evidence of the driver's identity. This dates back many years (2015) and difficult to remember who could have been driving  *their WS states I only said I was not the driver at a late stage and when filing an amended defence, and appears I developed a defence to avoid liability. I have stated this from the start.  Also that I alleged no correspondence, and the onus is on the driver to update DVLA. I did update DVLA, but I moved numerous times due to domestic abuse. This was in my set aside Also question how I would be able to comment on the signs if not the driver of the vehicle, as she would not have first hand knowledge, therefore it is the claimants position that she is being disingenuous I put Excel to strict proof that any contract can exist  *Their WS states it falls foul of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999(UTCCR 1999). Claims the regulations don't apply? keeper of the vehicle - as the protocols of the POFA have not been followed so no keeper liability created. DVLA data was supplied for the single strict purpose of enquiring who was driving, not for bringing a case against me years later  Signage not a transparent contract insufficient in terms of their distribution  wording and lighting hence incapable of binding the driver, which distinguishes this case from the ParkingEye Ltd v. Beavis case  Sporadic and illegible charge not prominent nor large lettering site/entrance signage breach of the BPA Code of Practice. The entrance sign is on the left side so not the drivers side. The signs have no mention of any debt collection additional charge  The signage was not lit and not transparent contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.  The entrance sign refers to the terms and conditions on another sign The signs did not have planning permission under the Town and County planning. I have an email stating there was no planning permission from the council. * Their WS says they do not need planning permission by being an approved operator of the trade association, and it is not for the county court to determine planning permission.   The signs do not fall under deemed consent.    * Their WS states my defence appears to be cut and pasted from websites relating to parking whose aim is to assist motorists on contesting PCN's. Large portions are non sensical and irrelevant to the claim   Unacceptable as the defendant has signed a statement of truth whilst clearly not being the defendants knowledge   THANKS FOR YOUR HELP x   You mention I can get it struck out as they haven't sent me a bundle? They have sent me their WS online, no hard copies but I'd prefer not to go if possible  
    • Redacted and merged to one PDF   Attached is my witness statement and supporting evidence that I am going to give to the court, the court have said they will not even look at it until the day of the hearing, so I am OK to send it to them only a few days before the hearing.    Do you think it is worth me sending this to BW Legal, in the hope they will drop the case before it goes to court? Or am I better not showing my hand to them, so they cannot amend their evidence based on what I have stated?   If anyone would be kind enough to read through my statement and give me their thoughts, that would be very much appreciated.  ilovepdf_merged.pdf
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Brassica12

NCP windscreen PCN - Stanmore LU Car Park - not within lines - now various ZZPS-WRIGHT HASSALL Letters

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Hi, Appreciate some advice on my situation.

 

I am the keeper and owner but was not the driver for the following situation which I have ignored totally upto now.

 

Circumstances of the charge and correspondence to date

 

February – driver parked at London underground car park run by NCP.

Paid for ticket but did not park correctly within the marked bay so Parking charge notice issued for £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days. This PCN ignored.

 

Forty days later I get the NTK letter from NCP which I don’t respond to.

 

Thirty days later get letter from ZZPS stating the details of the parking and advising that I should now pay £160. This letter ignored.

 

Twenty days later a further letter from ZZPS states that if the charge is not paid then they shall pass to WH and the charge will increase by £30 to £190 payable. This letter ignored.

 

Forty days later get FORMAL LETTER OF CLAIM from WH stating that the balance is now £196 and if I do not pay within 14 days of this letter they will commence County Court proceedings.

 

 

I am still within the 14 days of this letter and have made no response.

 

So I am the keeper and owner but not the driver who I believe is the only party liable to pay the charge??.

 

My choices as I see it are to either

 

 

  1. Continue to ignore. or
  2. Respond to WH letter stating that I was not the driver and they should seek the driver. I know who the driver is but am I obliged to disclose this?? Can I ask for a fee for disclosing this information??

Would like some advice on how each course of action might develop from here.

Regards

Brassica

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zzzps/WH same office same printer same PC.

you've ignored to date

[p'haps not the best thing to do since 2012 turn around]

 

 

but as you've done so so far

continue to ignore IMHO.

just not a claimform.

 

 

read the letter properly

I think you'll see it does NOT say WILL commence anything

they cant

only NCP can.

 

can I gather this was a windscreen PCN?


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Hi, Thanks for replies chaps.

 

Yes WH letter states that "we anticipate being instructed to commence County Court proceedings against you without further notice."

 

PCN was affixed to the windscreen?

 

What about the naming of the driver - The NTK asked me to do this if I was not the driver and this was 90 days ago. Does this length of time without me responding count against me or not??

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these are speculative invoices

they can make all the silly time limits they like

doesn't mean anything.

 

 

so this was def a windscreen ticket ..you've put a ? above

 

 

do you still have it?


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Yes it is a windscreen PCN which I still have.

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Check if the car park is covered by TfL/LU and their bye-laws. If it is, the Protection of Freedoms Act will not apply, so nor will keeper liability.

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Hi,

 

 

I've been all over the TFL/Lu web pages and cannot find any reference to certain car parks and bye laws applying. How would I find out??

 

 

Regs

Brassica

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we don't know which one

sorry we haven't asked that.

 

 

dx


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It is Stanmore, sorry I did not mention it before.

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According to:

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/car-park-asset-list.xlsx

it is one of theirs.

 

 

And the byelaws:

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/terms-and-conditions/byelaws#on-this-page-0

Apply - especially Railway Byelaw 14 in respect of parking.,

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Many thanks for your replies. I need help please Raykay to understand your information

 

from the list in your link Stanmore LU car park is covered by the railway byelaws. So you said in post #7 that the Protection of Freedoms Act does not apply and neither does keeper liability.

 

Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) was complied with by the driver as a ticket was purchased so it appears that no penalty is due. The car park ticket was paid for but the car was "not parked correctly within the markings of the bay space". No mention of this in the byelaw.

 

Can I continue to ignore the request for payment in confidence because the byelaws apply and do not cover the reason of "not parked correctly within the markings of the bay space". Meaning there is no claim on me or the driver?.

 

Not sure I understand your point about keeper liability does not apply?.

 

 

Regs

Brassica

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look at the ticket CAREFULLY

it does say PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE

it says Parking charge notice.

and nothing you have received mention the byelaws.

 

 

dx


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As you have seen, there is no mention of parking within markings of a space in the byelaws.

 

The car park is 'managed' by NCP on behalf of TfL. NCP 'invent' their own rules for the use of the car park and issue 'notices' for not complying with those rules.

 

Prior to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, only the driver was liable for their claims - as that was the person who allegedly broke their rules.

 

Sch. 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act gave the power - under certain circumstances - to claim from the keeper if the driver was not known.

 

Land mentioned in Sch.4, s.3, is not covered by the act. S, 3© is land subject to statutory control - which includes Stanmore Station Car park as it is subject to byelaws. As is many railway company, airport company, harbour company etc. land.

 

If NCP know who the driver was, they can claim from the driver for breaking their rules, but not from the keeper. In your case, only TfL can for breaking their byelaws, and that would be case in the magistrate's court and there is a time limit of six months.

 

NCP know that, which is why all they, and their partners, can do is keep sending letters - increasing the amount each time, and various threats of county court action and County Court Judgements, and sometimes a reduced amount, hoping that the person will pay.

 

So, if the driver is not identified, NCP have no authority to claim from the keeper for breaking their rules.

TfL would need to take action within 6 months if was considered to be a byelaw offence (which it doesn't appear to be).

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You can ignore 'begging letters' from NCP and their friends, but don't ignore a 'Letter Before Action' or a claim from Northampton County Court (if NCP are daft enough to try).

 

You are under no obligation to identify the driver - regardless of any claim by NCP that you need to.

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Cheers Raykay can I buy you a beer?

 

 

So to finish the 'Formal letter of claim' I have from WH can be ignored - in your opinion?

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WH cant issue an LBA

only NCP can do court

and they don't


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So to finish the 'Formal letter of claim' I have from WH can be ignored - in your opinion?

 

I think so, it is a letter before claim, rather than a letter before action, and they only 'anticipate' county court action - another ruse to worry people enough to pay.

 

If you do reply, don't sign the letter, just print your name - you never know what other of their documents your signature may appear on!!

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Hi,

I have spent the best part of an hour trying to find out if this site is covered by any bylaws. Fail!

 

What I have found is that NCP rarely take court action and in the last 6 months have taken a total of 4 cases to court so the odds are well in your favour.

 

I suspect the letter you have received from WH is stated as Letter OF Claim Rather than Letter BEFORE Claim. The difference may not seem much to you but it does matter. There are variants of those words but to fulfil the Pre Action Protocols, they should at the very least send you a letter before claim or letter before action.

 

I would continue to ignore unless actual court papers arrive.

You could complain to WH but that is up to you. You could also do more research about whether the site is covered by bylaws


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TFL cannot use railway byelaws but they have their own and as far as I know dont have separate parking laws but rely on the Road Traffic Act, the same as any council would.

 

 

That would mean that NCP would still have nothing to do with any of tis so ya boo sucks to them, the horse they rode in on and the colonel who sent them.

 

Yes, the leter is a " we have no powers but hope that someone instructs us to do somehting but we know that is unlikley so we beg you to be scared and pay up.

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Hi,

I have spent the best part of an hour trying to find out if this site is covered by any bylaws. Fail!

You could also do more research about whether the site is covered by bylaws

 

It is a TfL car park, so subject to byelaws (see post 11).

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It is a TfL car park, so subject to byelaws (see post 11).

 

Oh I agree, it's just that I cannot find any proof of such. We have seen around airports that the bylaws in place are ignored by both the PPC and the airport and I am trying to see if TFL are doing the same thing.

Many car parks owned by these companies are abdicating responsibility ( I believe) to the PPCs and should be stopped


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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TFL cannot use railway byelaws but they have their own and as far as I know dont have separate parking laws but rely on the Road Traffic Axt, the same as any council would. .

 

TfL have their own railway byelaws, the parking byelaws are virtually the same as the Transport Act ones. (See post 11).

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Great thank you for your help chaps. I will advise further in this thread as things either escalate or our friends go to sleep on this one. Regards

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