CEL ANPR PCN Claim Form - no permit oct 2016 Frognal Court Finchley Rd Lon NW3

[FosterFam]

Name of the Claimant CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD

 

Date of issue – 08 June 2017

Date to acknowledge = 26th June

date to submit defence = 10 July

What is the claim for –

 

"Outstanding debt and damages

Ref no and date of parking £236.00

 

Total Due £236

The claimant claims the sum of £251.83 for Outstanding debt and damages including 15.83 interest pursuant to S69 of county courts act 1984

Rate 8.% PA from dates above to 7-6-17

Same rate to Judgment or (sooner) payment

Daily rate to Judgment 0.05

Total debt and interest due 251.83

I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form."

No location given on the claim form but looking at chase up letters the location was Frognal Court, London, and was because authorised vehicles only

 

What is the value of the claim? £251.83

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? CEL

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? NO

Hi all

 

Hope you can help my husband has received a claim form for a ticket we ignored last year thinking they would go away, I'm in trouble now for ignoring it but hope you can help with the best way to dispute the claim

He was visiting a property in the area he parked for work and we are unsure who owns the land to check if he would have been 'authorised'.

We didn't keep the original notice so don't have the original photo which looked like it was taken by a person on a phone and they haven't put any details on the claim form.

I can plan to go back there to take pictures of signage if needed.

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

follow this for now

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?478430-CEL-Claimform-PCN

 

it will get you moving.

and fill in the background RE:CEL

[FosterFam]

thanks will have a look

[ericsbrother]

the total lack of any content to the claim stands you a good chance of getting this booted out beofre you have to do anything serious about it

 

 

acknowledge the claim and then on the 22nd june you write to court to ask that the claim be struck out for having no merit and a failure to provide any particulars that show a cause for action against the defendant.

[FosterFam]

Hi ok thanks, should I still acknowledge and defend and then write to ask for claim to be struck out ?

[dx100uk]

you must:

 

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

don't sign anything

.

dx

 

 

 

 

text of CRP

 

 

to the solicitors

[Your address]

.

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the claim form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. the contract between [parking company name] and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

3.copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] & [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request within 14 days and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

You are reminded that as this case is yet to be allocated to a track, CPR31:14 does apply, a refusal to comply because you 'think' at this stage you dont have too will be used against you in any filed defence.

.

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT

[ericsbrother]

yes,

you MUST acknowledge and then get the CPR 31.14 going

 

 

then when you get to the time you must submit an outline defence

you use the strike out request for n the claimant not showing cause for action, following civil procedure etc. fail to ack and defend makes anything else you wish to do redundant.

 

This is all made clear on every other thread that court claims are mentioned so strat doing your homework

 

Hi ok thanks, should I still acknowledge and defend and then write to ask for claim to be struck out ?

[FosterFam]

thanks will get going with all of that

[FosterFam]

Claim acknowledged and selected defend all.

 

 

CPR 31.14 going tomorrow by recorded post.

 

 

Do I have to wait for the 14 days they have to respond to CPR request to ask for the claim be struck out by the court or can i still do this on the 22nd June which is only 7 days,

 

 

looking at other posts it seems I should wait for the 14 days to be up on the CPR request ?

[dx100uk]

or at some time before day 33

[FosterFam]

Hi all particulars of claim received by standard post this morning, does this change anything ?

CEL Particulars of Claim.pdf

[ericsbrother]

this is the worst particulars of claim I have ever seen,

it fails to mention

what you owe and why,

the date and place of the event that gave rise to a possible claim

and is just a generic cut and paste that seems to be part of a witness statement rather than the detail of a claim.

 

 

No breakdown of the amount,

no mention whether the claim is for a contractual sum or a breach of contract,

in short so lacking in substance it is impossible to begin to submit a defence.

 

reword this staement slightly and send it off the the courts service.

If you have used the online facility to acknowledge the claim then you may have trouble getting this read so find a postal address as well,

such as Northampton bulk centre or thei processing unit in Wigan

 

I would still ask for the claim to be struck out as having no cause for ation and being without merit under CPR16.4. highlighting the above

 

When you have to submit an outline defence you start this iff with the same comments and then use a more general bullet point of no contractual laibility as defendant is not driver and there is no keeper liability as POFA not adhered to.

 

That will be enough for now,

CEL will most likely drop the claim if it isnt thrown out by HMCTS for being garbage

[FosterFam]

thanks - i will do that,

I had thought it was just a standard format they issue to anyone

as the only details they have put are on the 'schedule of information'

but not sure how true the arrival and departure times are

I guess they could have made them up.

 

 

If it did end up in court they would have to prove the arrival and departure times wouldn't they ?

[dx100uk]

yes and you've sent a CPR anyway.

so............

[ericsbrother]

It will end up in court if you don't point this out to the courts service

even asking for a strike out at this stage doesn't stop the matter getting to a hearing, it just makes it the first thing CEL will be asked

 

read about other claims being chucked out for insufficient cause for action and get your letter in.

You can add a sentence or 2 to your defence on these lines as well as a separate letter.

 

The next part of your defence will be no keeper liability created under the POFA and defendant demands STRICT PROOF from CEL of who was driving at the time as they are the proper defendant for any possible claim.

 

Then say no breach of contract by defendant so no monies are owed to claimant by the defendant.

 

That covers all matters that you would want to raise later and lays it on with a trowel that they are barking up the wrong tree.

 

thanks - i will do that,

I had thought it was just a standard format they issue to anyone

as the only details they have put are on the 'schedule of information'

but not sure how true the arrival and departure times are

I guess they could have made them up.

 

 

If it did end up in court they would have to prove the arrival and departure times wouldn't they ?

[FosterFam]

Thanks ericsbrother, I'm just about to do letter to court requesting strike off. No response yet from CPR 31.14 they signed for it on 19-6.

 

The driver is the registered owner in this case do I still mention no keeper liability ?

 

Should i leave until nearer to 10th July to submit defence ?

 

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

I'm not sure what you mean about the driver being the registed owner,.

they have sued you as the registered keeper and have no idea who the driver was at the time and you are not going to help them find out you NEVER say who was driving.

 

 

READ ABOUT KEEPER LIABILITY AND THE POFA BEFORE YOU SAY OR DO ANYTHING ELSE

 

As for your defence,

you leave it as late as possible so they dont see what you have to say and then submit a late POC filing to correct their errors

 

As for the CPR31.14, did you give them 14 days to respond as normal?

if so then that time hasnt elapsed and you will be made to look foolish if you bang on about it in a letter to court.

[FosterFam]

Yes understood, trying to get my head round it all sorry. Leaving strike off request until 3rd July allowing the 14 days. Will do some more reading then draft defence ready to file at last minute.

[FosterFam]

Hi

just preparing defence to file on 9th July do you think this covers everything we need to ? We haven't been to take pictures of the signage on site (quite a distance for us) do you think we should do this before submitting defence or is it not relevant at this stage ? Thanks

 

 

It is admitted that Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle in question.

 

However it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim on the following grounds:-

 

1. The Protection of Freedom Act 2012 Schedule 4 has not being complied with. The registered keeper has not been proven as the driver, as such the keeper can only be held liable if the claimant has fully complied with the strict requirements.

 

2. The proper claimant is the landowner. Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED.

 

3. CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED are not the lawful occupier of the land.

(i) absent a contract with the lawful occupier of the land being produced by the claimant, or a chain of contracts showing authorisation stemming from the lawful occupier of the land, I have the reasonable belief that they do not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no right to bring action regarding this claim.

 

4. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.

 

6. The Protection of Freedoms Act does not permit the Claimant to recover a sum greater than the parking charge on the day before a Notice to Keeper was issued. The Claimant cannot recover additional charges. The Defendant also has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred the stated additional costs and it is put to strict proof that they have actually been incurred.

 

7. The provision is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss for the following reasons:

a) The claimant is not the landowner and suffers no loss whatsoever as a result of a vehicle parking at the location in question

b) The amount claimed is a charge and evidently disproportionate to any loss suffered by the Claimant

c) the penalty bears no relation to the circumstances because it remains the same no matter whether a motorist overstays by ten second or ten years.

 

 

8. Save as expressly mentioned above, the Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety and is an exact copy of particulars of claims sent to other claimants at different locations nationwide. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

9. CEL have failed to show cause for action by way of sight of planning permission for their signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 and a contract between themselves and the landowner assigning the right to enter into contracts and make civil claims in their own name by way of a CPR 31.14 request.

 

10. The signage displayed is prohibitive rather than contractual therefore no contract has been formed to be broken.

 

PS sent request to strike out to court on 5th July

[ericsbrother]

drop point 7,

that is what Beavis was about,

they dont have to show a loss,

they can use commercial justification.

 

If you leave it in you will leave yourself open to questioning on it and as it is irrelevent to your defence best avoided

 

Many commentators raised eyebrows when the supreme court ruled on this point as it menat that the principle of a level playing field had disappeared and consumer contract law didnt apply to parking either.

 

the law as it stands places each person in a contractual relationship that applies to business to business contracts but in those contracts each party has the opportunity to amend the contract before acceptance.

 

With a sign on a stick on a bit of waste land you have no such opportunity so we get the worst of both worlds.

 

I can see whay the judges made the decision, it unifies the law regarding contracts but also shows the background of most judges, commercial contract litigation and thus their specialist knowledge may make it easy for them to make an informed decision whether to park or not isnt true for the rest of us.

 

Do we take a lawyer with us every time we go to the supermarket so they can decypher the garbled english on most parking signs?.

[FosterFam]

hi quick update, defence lodged and confirmation received. no response to CPR31.14 request.

 

 

Following letter to strike out court have sent me a strike out application form N244 that I will fill in.

 

 

Guess just a case of waiting now. thanks for all your help so far.

[FosterFam]

Crikey just read the N244 application form letter and there is a cost of £255 to request a strike out - looks like that won't be an option now !

[ericsbrother]

you get the money back when you win.

Stop being a twonk and get on with it.

 

 

If you are poor there is a remission of fees from you can fill in and the cost is reduced to as little as zero.

 

 

Having the judgement on your credit files will kill any chance of a mortgage, new tenancy, mobile phone contract etc

so even if you lose it is monetary worth spending unless you intend to go bankrupt.

Wake up