Arrow/Drydens Claim form -old MBNA card debt (Statute Barred)

[truaguns]

Hi all,

 

Was just going to complete the defence myself as I didn't want to trouble you all with (what I believe is a pretty simple defence), but hopefully this can help others, who are in a similar situation.

 

This morning (dated 6th June) received a claim form, details below:

 

Name of the Claimant: Arrow Global (Drydens Solicitors)

 

Date of issue – 6/6/17

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

1. The claim is for the sum of CA £7.5K in respect of monies owing by the defendant on a credit agreement held ny the defendant with MBNA under account number **************** upon which the defendant failed to maintain payments.

2. A default notice was served upon the defendant and has not been complied with.

3. The balance owed was assigned from MBNA to the claiment, and the defendant has been notified of the assignment by letter.

Contact Drysdens Solicitors on ......

 

What is the value of the claim? CA 7.5K

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? CC

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? Before 2007

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes, after SB date had passed

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not sure

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? No

 

Why did you cease payments? Financial Difficulties

 

What was the date of your last payment? End February 2011

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No offered £1 per month untilI was in a better financial position but was ignored so ignore them and their letters.

 

I'm assuming this is a pretty simple statute barred defence, the last payment was Feb 2011, so first cause of action would have been end March 2011. Looking at my credit report it says in June 2011 payment was up to 5 months late.. (5BB), defaulted in August 2011.

 

Is there any point me filling in the AOS for an extra 14 days, seems I'm just giving these leeches extra time.

 

Just to be clear my defence will be:

 

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on 06/06/2017.

 

2 The Claimant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

 

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £7500 (approx) or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

Hope I've covered it all. Main question was do I really need to AOS to give them extra time?

 

Thanks for all the help, both now and in the past.

 

Just a quick note, it's odd they are not claiming interest. Not seen this before, just £410 court fee and £100 solicitors costs. Does that mean they've already paid £410 to issue the claim..?

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CCA Request running to the claimant

leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

don't sign anything

.

 

 

 

hold on the defence till nearer day 33 in case they produce anything you've forgotten about

 

 

most probably be:

 

 

alternative whereby claimant intimates SB date=defaulted date and that has been registered months after the last payment

.

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on dd/mm/yyyy.

2.The date last payment made was the dd/mm/yyyy

3.The Default Noticed was issued dd/mm/yyyy and served several months after the initial breach thus the cause of action delayed by X months and the Limitations period prolonged to 6 years and X months which in effect allows the creditor to stop time running and the creditor having effective control of when a limitation period begins or even starts to run.

4.Therefore the Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation acticon 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any true cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

5.The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

.

[BankFodder]

What date did you offer them the £1 per month?

[truaguns]

March 2011, I also enclosed a cheque for £1 that was never cashed. Should I really be requesting CCA etc when I'm using SB as absolute defense?

 

Already registered with MCOL, previous defenses, with help from this amazing site.

 

Sorry edit, what I mean is, if I'm using SB defence, should I really be contesting whether the claim was (before SB) valid?

[BankFodder]

It can never hurt to have a bit extra - and for the sake of £1, why not?

 

You have just enough time of you file and AOS

[truaguns]

Not being argumentative, but if I only just have enough time the system is a joke. I just opened the letter, what if I had been away for a few weeks?

 

OK I'll get the CCA and 31.14 running.

 

Thanks again for the help

 

EDIT, was just thinking if I submit the defense without AOS, this would put them under some pressure. They should have, for want of a better expression, all their ducks in a row before issuing these BS claims. Do they have to adhere to the 2 weeks (without AOS as I would)..?

 

EDIT sorry was too slow to edit this

[dx100uk]

March 2011, I also enclosed a cheque for £1 that was never cashed. Should I really be requesting CCA etc when I'm using SB as absolute defense?

 

Already registered with MCOL, previous defenses, with help from this amazing site.

 

Sorry edit, what I mean is, if I'm using SB defence, should I really be contesting whether the claim was (before SB) valid?

 

 

we've had a bit of a rethink behind the scenes of recent regarding sb.

there's no harm in the CCA & no real harm in the CRP though not compulsory on SB...

 

 

if they want to contest SB, they will have to produce written proof at the ws/disclosure stage, if they run that far with it.....

 

 

if your issue date was the 6th, your AOS is not due till 19th day via mcol [23rd re w/end]

your defence is not due till the day 33 [7th re:W/end]

 

 

as soon as you file it they have 28days...

but can always pay to lift if they do let it stay...

 

 

the +£7.5k balance might well see them run this and hope for judge lottery .

[truaguns]

Judge Lottery? I know in some cases the judge would be making a decision based on the evidence presented, but surely when it comes to SB it either is or isn't?

 

I've looked at my old documents and sent them a letter on 21st Mar 2011, stating I could pay £1 per month as a gesture of goodwill until I was in a better financial position, this was ignored. So I didn't bother paying it.

[dx100uk]

yes judge lottery.

the judge could opt for defaulted date being SB date

hence the version of the SB defence I've given you

doesn't matter what, if you get judge lottery you wont win.

we've seen it before here a few times.

[truaguns]

Oh OK. Seems pointless having a SB rule and not applying it. Anyway I'll send the forms off later today, see where it goes from here.

[dx100uk]

forms?

CCA/CPR you mean?

[truaguns]

Yes sorry, CPR / CCA.

[truaguns]

Just had a quick read up on this BMW Vs Hart case, which seems to be where the fuzziness of cause of action / default date comes from for SB. Seems the debt was hire purchase and not applicable to credit card debt?

[AndyOrch]

Just had a quick read up on this BMW Vs Hart case, which seems to be where the fuzziness of cause of action / default date comes from for SB. Seems the debt was hire purchase and not applicable to credit card debt?

 

Correct but try convincing a Judge that

[dx100uk]

= judge lottery.

 

 

dx

[truaguns]

Nothing new to say but I've just been reading some other threads and read this:

 

sb runs from last payment DATE

NOTHING TO DO WITH dn DATE

 

It refers to a loan, would this be different than a CC debt. Just getting a bit confused with different advice. I spoke to someone else about SB and they insist that the date runs from last payment (plus a month or so) or acknowledgement of debt and nothing to do with DN date, as above.

 

Just seems a bit of confusing if these agencies are trying to change the law and judges go alone with them. So if, for any reason a DN was never applied to the account in question the debt would never become Statute Barred?

[dx100uk]

exactly let it run

 

typically arrows use restons sols

 

but thanks to CAG and mainly andyorch

 

on defended claims whereby we defend its SB

rectuns haven't a good track record recently....

 

so that could be why they are trying drydens..

[AndyOrch]

The Limitations states that the cause of action is the date the limitations runs from.

 

So to put that in to perspective.......the cause of action is when a creditor is entitled to take action to recover the debt.....the cause of action is when the debtor defaults or breeches the agreement.

 

Credit cards are normally 3 missed payments and then the creditor should issue a default notice which allows a further 14 days to rectify the breach but it can be argued the first missed payment is the true breach.

 

Loans are very similar except its usually a case of first missed payment and the whole of the balance becomes due but again 14 days to rectify....whereas credit cards are just the missed monthly payments (arrears)

 

HP is different again subject to the terms and conditions of the agreement and in particular the BMW VS Hart case, which is very unique.

 

Overdrafts are different again....but 28 days to provide alternative options to settle and then a further 14 days once a recall termination has been issued.

 

So if the cause of action is the start of the limitation of 6 years it all depends on when the creditor issues the default notice (or so they would have you believe) but its not its from the breach of the agreement and whether the creditor acts promptly or not is their prerogative...but as I have stated many times a creditor can not control the passage of time subject to when they feel like issuing a default notice...and as you state if they never issue one then according to creditors and judges using their interpretation then the agreement could never become statute barred.

 

Funny the Law and its interpretation.

[truaguns]

Funny not the word I would use ;-)

 

Oh just one more point, I stopped payments on a number of different cards at exactly the same time, they all have different dates for the default (ranging from June 2011 to October 2011). So according to some peoples interpretation of the law they all become SB at different times? Surely that can't be right.

 

I'll keep quiet for now, until (if) they reply to the CCA/CPR requests.

[AndyOrch]

Funny not the word I would use ;-)

 

Oh just one more point, I stopped payments on a number of different cards at exactly the same time, they all have different dates for the default (ranging from June 2011 to October 2011). So according to some peoples interpretation of the law they all become SB at different times? Surely that can't be right.

 

I'll keep quiet for now, until (if) they reply to the CCA/CPR requests.

 

Not some peoples interpretation ...just appears to be creditors solicitors and district judges who go along with them.

[truaguns]

Had letter from Drydens,

they're trying to get hold of requested items and they agree to an extension of time by 2 weeks.

 

 

Had nothing else concerning the CPR/CCA requests.

The claim date was 6th June.

I'm thinking I should just submit my SB defense before the cut off date which is around the 8th June?

 

I'm sure they are going to come back with the defaulted date is the cause of action so it's not SB'd,

 

 

this is a long shot, but is there anyway of checking a courts previous judgements.

Just thought it would be an idea on how they're likley to go in these sort of cases...?

[AndyOrch]

Defence due this Friday 7th July.

[truaguns]

Thanks and, I meant July...

 

Wuuld I pre-empt there response to the SB defence, like so:

 

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on 06/06/2017.

 

2.The date last payment made was the 28/02/2011

 

3.The Default Noticed was issued several months after the initial breach thus the cause of action delayed and the Limitations period prolonged to 6 years plus, which in effect allows the creditor to stop time running and the creditor having effective control of when a limitation period begins or even starts to run.

 

4.Therefore the Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of The Limitation Act 1980.

 

 

5.If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any true cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

 

6.The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £7.5K or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

Or just go with the standard SB defense?

[AndyOrch]

If you foresee a possible argument due to cause of action and dates being tight...the above is the correct defence to use.

[truaguns]

Thanks Andy, just wondering if I am arguing against myself, they don't even know the SB defense is coming. Can you adjust a defence after it's submitted in response to anything they might say?