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    • Birmingham council are wrong.   However, you probably left yourself open to this problem by not changing the keep details.  You should do this now.   Also are there any other lurking problems which could come up and bit you?  You should make proper arrangements to redirect post or to inform creditors etc. This is the kind of scenario where you end up getting backdoor CCJs which then become difficult to deal with
    • What do I need to send on SAR? Do you have an email from them ?    I have 1 year with them .  I ve been made some international transactions because I ve been buy a car and a house I was need to send monthly money . I m a self employed, so I earn my money by myself . I didnt do nothing wrong with them . When I open my account I let them know that I m self employed and I can prove that .   I m in a desperate situation as I m not having any money for my company that I just open to can run 
    • Birmingham City Council,  told me because the car is on my name I am responsible  for it and I can't have anyone take the blame.  
    • Send them on SAR immediately. Do it today. Read up on this forum and elsewhere on the Internet about crifas. How long have you had the account? Have you been having large sums of money going in or out recently – especially paid in cash? This kind of unexplained behaviour generally relates to something that triggers a suspicion that your account is being used for money laundering or some other kind of fraud. If that's what has happened then you will find it almost impossible to get information about it and also almost impossible to find out when your account might be made available to you. If a CIFAS marker has been applied to your account, the bank takes upon itself absently Draconian powers and you will scarcely even get any assistance from the FOS who quite frankly are simply a poodle to the financial services sector
    • In addition to dealing with the individual problems that this person is creating for you, you obviously need to deal with it holistically because there is a problem of identity fraud which may well continue and will certainly affect you and your family throughout your lives. Nobody should underestimate the seriousness of this kind of thing. Although people will commonly apply the label of "identity theft", what you are actually dealing with here is "identity fraud" and it is well understood in academic circles. The police were quite wrong to say that there was nothing they could do. I'm afraid that this reflects under-resourcing coupled with poor staff development and a poor attitude. There are offences being committed here and the girl herself is committing fraud contrary to sections 1(2a), & 2 of the Fraud Act 2006  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents   Of course the police will find it very difficult to do anything and given their resources, I suppose they have other priorities. However, you could be certain that if your family was related to the head of the local police force, they would be dealing with it PDQ. You say that this has been going on for a number of years – but you don't say how long. Maybe you had better give us a detailed account of what has happened. Please set out in a bullet pointed chronology so that we don't have too much narrative but a good structured idea of what has happened. This should include a list of the problems which have occurred and how they have been dealt with and also complaints which you have attempted to make. You definitely need to start taking this very seriously. How old is your daughter? In terms of opening mail, you should open every letter that comes to you and if you find that it is associated with this fraud, then you should photocopy it/scan it into a computer and start building up a file. I hope you have kept some of the correspondence and other documents which you might have received. Please let us know what you have. You are definitely going to have to start accumulating a robust file of evidence and I suggest that the first thing you do is you start sending SARs out to all of the organisations which have been involved and see if you can tease out of them any personal data that they might have which is apparently linked to you. Either they will provide you with a statutory disclosure – or, of course, it will be amusing if they say that they are more proof of your identity and that they won't let you have the disclosure because they are not satisfied that the data they have relates to you. I don't think you're in a position to make any serious complaint until you have put together a convincing file of evidence which shows that there is systematic identity fraud. We will help you to start to do this and help you to structure the file that you will put together and then we can begin to explore avenues to make a complaint. It also occurs to me that they could be a basis here for making a complaint under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 although this would be an unusual application of the act – but we can have a look when you put together your file.  
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Administrative penalty notice- how do they expect us to pay?


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Thank you once again tomtom256.

 

Something else I wanted to ask you - with us having an interview on the 24th - will our benefit on the 21st still be paid or will it be stopped?

 

You've been a great help. We both really appreciate it.

 

If the work has stopped and the claim is ok, then it should be paid as normal as there would be no reason to suspend payments.

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If the work has stopped and the claim is ok, then it should be paid as normal as there would be no reason to suspend payments.

 

The work stopped in December so hopefully that means it will be paid as normal. Thank you very much.

 

Trying to calm down and put prison out of my mind.

 

Thank you everyone.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just on my way on my IUC. Extremely scared hoping they take my extenuating circumstances into account.

 

Thank you to everyone for all your help!

 

You have given us a lot of information we wouldn't have known about had I not made contact with this forum. So thank you very much for that.

 

We just have to hope for the best now.

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Phew! So glad that is over.

 

Thought I'd do an update as you have all been so kind to us and helped us throughout this ordeal.

 

I'll start from the beginning.

 

The investigator was polite and professional. Not at all like he was on the phone.

 

He asked me if my partner had done any work other than at Christmas 2013 and early 2014.

 

I of course was totally up front and honest with him and gave him all of the dates that my partner has worked. He said that matched up perfectly with the information he had.

 

He told me that we were looking at a total of 13 weeks 'undeclared' work which makes total sense. He informed me that the reason was that they hadn't received payslips from 2014, 2015 or 2016 so as of right now that is all classed as undeclared.

 

I then informed him of the reasons why I may have been negligent in following up of any payslips sent. About telling my family about the years of sexual abuse, my mental health deteriorating and then my total mental collapse in April 2016 in which I didn't want to live.

 

He said the overpayment as of right now is about £3,200 of undeclared earnings including housing benefit.

 

He told me that isn't what we owe though as my partner could legally earn so much in a financial year without any overpayment.

 

I asked him if it was likely that I was going to go to prison and he laughed and said no not at all which was a massive relief!

 

In 2013 (which he had in a totally different folder as it was resolved and totally dealt with like I said in my previous posts) my partner earned a lot more in that year than any of the following years.

 

We were docked the money in 2014 whilst they totted up how much he could earn without overpayment and then in the end we received every penny back in a big refund.

 

Anyway, the interview lasted for about 35 minutes and at the end of it he said that he was going to recommend to his manager that they take no further action!

 

He said that in 99.999999% of cases that he recommends no action on, his manager listens to him and he assured me that there would be no further action.

 

I could have sobbed. Two weeks of sleepless nights. Worrying about prison. Worrying about how we are going to pay a fine. Knowing that we aren't going to be fined or prosecuted is a HUGE weight off both of our minds. This has really affected both of us from a mental health standpoint but now we can finally breathe again! You have no idea how much of a relief it was to hear him say the words 'I'm going to recommend no further action'

 

He did say that the overpayment was a separate issue though and the relevant team needs to now determine how much of that 'overpayment' and 'undeclared earnings' is actually an overpayment. Same with housing benefit and their team. He said it should be dealt with within three months.

 

I do have one question if I may

 

If it turns out that we have been overpaid and we have to pay it back - at what rate will this be taken? Will it be a significant chunk of our benefits? Say if it comes back that the overpayment is £1000 - how long will that be spread over? Roughly?

 

Both me and my partner want to thank everybody who has helped us here and given us the relevant information we needed to approach the interview from the best way possible. We appreciate it so much.

 

Now we just need to wait for the letter to say a) If there is an overpayment and b) if they are taking any further action (although he said it's extremely unlikely)

 

Thank you!

 

From two very relieved people. :-)

Edited by dragon29
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Mine is £11.10 a week but if it causes financial hardship you can repay at a lower rate, you just have to fill in a form with your in goings and out goings.

 

Glad it went well for you and put your mind at rest.

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  • 2 months later...

As some of you may remember I attended an IUC in March where I was told that he was going to recommend no action and we would just have to pay the overpayment which is being dealt with coming out of our benefits.

 

Received a letter this morning saying I have to go to another interview and that I'm being fined £780 instead of prosecution.

 

How are we meant to pay that in a lump sum?

We can barely live as it is on the money we've got.

How do they expect us to pay SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY POUNDS

- we can hardly afford to eat as it is so

how do they expect us to pay that much?

 

As I said in my previous post both me and my partner have mental health problems and this has exacerbated them.

 

If we can't pay it, will they send us to court?

 

Prison is entering my mind again. I feel sick.

 

In addition to this

I've been reading online that if I accept this admin penalty we will have our benefits taken away for 4 weeks.

 

 

Please can someone explain how we are meant to

a) live

b) repay our overpayment through our benefits if they are going to take away our benefit for 4 weeks.

 

I'm freaking out!!

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Try to calm down and just see how it goes.

 

Before you go to the next meeting, write back to whoever has issued this Administrative penalty notice and appeal against the amount. Provide them with full details of your income, expenses and savings, so they can see your current position. And make them fully aware of your vulnerable position i.e your health.

 

I suspect that you can go through a full appeals process, before the amount of any penalty is set and you can then agree repayments over a period. You might be able to pay a small amount per week out of future benefit income over a longish period until it is cleared.

 

But make sure you write back as soon as possible.

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I'm really worried at the moment about them taking our benefits away and us having nothing to live on. There was no deceit on our part and now we are being punished even more. We have no savings. At all. For us to lose our benefit would be catastrophic.

 

Do I have the right to appeal? If I appeal will it be of detriment to me if the appeal is denied?

 

Me and my partner are so terrified right now.

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threads merged

please keep to one thread

 

 

and stop worrying.

 

 

its no big deal.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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How in the world is it 'no big deal'? - we don't have a magic money tree outside.

 

Constructive advice only please. Things that will actually help rather than saying it's no big deal. It's a huge deal to us.

 

I tried to edit but it wouldn't let me.

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why are you being fined?

the end result will be the same as last time most probably.

small amount out of benefits.

 

 

so why this 2nd time are they doing it?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is an administrative penalty to stop it going to court.

They are already taking the overpayment from our benefit each fortnight.

 

We were told that no further action would be taken but obviously not.

 

My real worry apart from the Administrative penalty is the fact I've read that we could have our benefits stopped for a period of time if we accept the penalty.

 

There was no deceit in this. I thought we'd got that clear at the IUC. Clearly not.

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Uncle B has suggested you respond to them in writing. Your letter should include the fact that both you and your partner are vulnerable persons. That you are already making repayments via your benefits.

 

 

It does rather sound to me as though there might be a bit of an administrative cock up.

 

 

You might also want to contact Citizens Advice Bureau - explain the situation to them and ask if they can help you.

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yep this doesn't sound right to me.

its for the same issue as before.

someone's ticked a wrong box.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites
Uncle B has suggested you respond to them in writing. Your letter should include the fact that both you and your partner are vulnerable persons. That you are already making repayments via your benefits.

 

 

It does rather sound to me as though there might be a bit of an administrative cock up.

 

 

You might also want to contact Citizens Advice Bureau - explain the situation to them and ask if they can help you.

 

What do you mean by 'Administrative cock up'?

 

Would it be of help to pay for a doctors letter explaining my situation? We can't really afford it but we have a friend that may help with a small amount. If I include that along with income/expenditures would that give us a bit more gravitas?

 

I thought this contravened DWP policy and that they had to take mental health into account?

 

Am I wrong in thinking that?

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yep this doesn't sound right to me.

its for the same issue as before.

someone's ticked a wrong box.

 

The issue before was for the overpayment though. This is a penalty to stop it from going to court. We just can't afford to pay £780 though. Surely as this is a first offence and I have mental health problems which I clearly explained at the IUC they would be a bit more lenient with me.

 

I feel like crying.

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its a cock up

they cant do BOTH

deduct from benefits & send you to court..mad world if they do!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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They can apparently because they are.

Well they aren't sending us to court YET but if we don't accept this penalty they will and even if we do accept it our benefits will be stopped for a period of time to be confirmed.

 

 

How are they expecting to get the overpayment that they take from our benefits each fortnight back if they stop our benefits?

 

It's sickening.

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If they sanction us we can't live.

 

I will be saying this in my appeals letter

I am currently writing a draft of along with the fact that I don't feel like they took any of what I said in my IUC regarding the fact I had a full mental breakdown last year (of which I'm still recovering from) and the fact everything came out about being sexually abused and dealing with the police and then the CPS into consideration when coming to this decision. I don't think they've taken any of it into consideration at all. They can't have done if they have come to this decision.

 

Either that or they are heartless and don't care about the fact that this time last year I didn't want to live.

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The ad pen amount is a percentage of the overpayment, the amount is set by legislation.

The actual percentage is dependant upon the overpayment dates.

 

You are being offered ad pen as they believe that the case against you will succeed in court.

If you don't accept they may well prosecute.

 

The penalty is recovered in instalments after you have repaid the overpayment, so no it's not a lump sum.

 

Yes there is a loss of some benefits after you accept an ad pen.

Usually for 4 weeks if a first offence.

 

There is no right of appeal against an ad pen decision.

You accept or decline.

If you decline they will then decide if they will prosecute or not

Please do not ask me for advice via PM as I will not reply.

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Well I'm writing them a letter anyway as I feel that none of my mitigating circumstances were taken into account and I'm appalled to receive this after being so transparent at my IUC and being told no further action by the investigator minus the overpayment.

 

So please tell me

 

How are we meant to live and pay bills if they take our benefits off us for 4 weeks?

 

We have ZERO savings!

 

They have to be heartless after everything I told them.

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