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    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
    • here is a question for you, is yu house divided up into a retail/business area  and domestic area for business rates purposes? If not why on earth are you paying business water rates? ceertainly not for tax purposes as you can claim any legit expense without having to reclassify your home as a business premises. i would be stopping this nonsense and goping back to whatever water supplier is the domestic one for your area. there is stuff all they can do to get the £40 from you whan you do that.
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Engage Credit - Being threatened with possession within 7 days

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Hi,

I currently am in breach of a suspended possession order dating back to the 4th of september 2015.

 

 

An order was made that i had to pay an extra £1000 on top of my normal payment of £650 per month in order to pay off the arrears of £6000...

 

 

at the time i was lead to believe that i had to accept this or the judge would def evict us

in desperation agreed...i know now that was a mistake.

 

 

I actually did manage to just about get the arrears under control by selling most of the contents of my house and stopped all building works.

..which was what put me in arrears in the first place

(old house with loads more problems than originally quoted for).

 

 

I have approx £175,000 equity in the property and the mortgage was for 50% of the purchase price.

 

 

I currently have arrears of £5208 and my monthly payment is £670...

i have offered to pay £250 a month which they have refused to accept though i have been doing this each week.

 

 

I have 254 months left to pay on the mortgage which if im right would equate on the norgan rule?

to be £20 extra per month?

 

 

Today i have received a letter stating if i dont pay the arrears in full within 7 days they will be applying for a warrant of possession.

 

 

..please someone give me some advice..

, would the judge take into account the 1000's and 1000's i have spent renovating this house and give me abit of slack.

 

 

..feel desperate and like ive let my family down just as things should be getting better!

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Did you put your offer of £250 per month in writing?

Who is the lender ?

Did you attend the possession hearing when the suspended order was given ?


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Hi, yes i put it in writing and though they said they would continue accepting payments they would not agree to it as a formal arrangement

 

 

fees etc were still being added..

.mortgage is with engage Credit.

 

 

I wasnt able to attend the court hearing as i am self employed and had a long standing booking at a trade show 300 miles away.

..it would have been financially disastorous for me to cancel this.

 

 

..i explained in advance and because they 'persuaded' me to offer such a large amount they had alreday agreed before it went before the judge they wouldnt seek full possession.

..hence why i know feel like i have a death sentence hanging over me.

 

 

Being self employed my income can be sporadic but the main reason im in arrears is down to the massive building project we took on with this house in the first place..

.we are so close to being finished and we are at the decorating stage.

 

 

..this will obviously be on hold to the mortgage is sorted but we have had a new roof, new electrics, new windows, insulation, granny annexe...spent 5 years busting our guts..

Edited by honeybee13
Last sentence removed - inappropriate

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engage huh

who was the original mortgage with

they are buyers of defunked or bad ones.

 

 

little tip

get an sar runningto them tomorrow

you know all those fess they've been charging

late

letter

arrears

debt management

they can ALL be reclaimed back!!

 

 

get this episode sorted and we'll hit them with it.

 

 

hope they didn't make you take out any stupid insurances too?


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No havent got any insurances with it...currently on my account statement it says account arrears is £5034 and the fees balance is £5179..ie more than the arrears...originally mortgage was a self cert with another mortgage lender...the name of which atm i cant recall...it was sold very early on as were the majority. What is a sar?

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click sar

 

but if you've the statement you don't need an sar then

 

this could be fun!!


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This is what my latest account statement says, dated 11th of May

Original amount borrowed £143, 520.00

Original term 360 months

Loan start date 23 July 2008

Current monthly instalement £655.50

Arrears balance £5,034.25

Fees balance £5,179.73

Account balance £128, 895.29

remaining original term 254 months

 

It is also worth pointing out the equity in the property is currently around £175, 000.

Im not shirking my obligations but the fees are just crippling me...and i just never seem to beable to dig into the arrears because of them.

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Hi, the problem arose as you were unable to attend the hearing and were bullied into offering an enormous amount each month towards the arrears. Had you been able to go before the judge at the hearing with a good defence and financial statement you would have been able to get an order for arrears payments much much lower as the arrears were only £6k.

 

You could apply for a hearing in front of a judge (which you would definately need to attend), and in your statement for court explain that you were bullied into agreeing to an amount which was not affordable and told you didn't need to attend as agreement had been reached beforehand. You could make the offer of £250 per month which is a perfectly acceptable amount to pay towards the arrears.


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Is it worth writing another letter reaffirming the offer and including a income and expenditure so they can see its affordable or should i push for spreading the arrears over the term of the mortgage...is this reasonable request if it did go back to court do you think?

 

the enormous amount was because they told me on the phone i would have to pay it off within 2 months but as a goodwill gesture they would give me 6 months as this was legally what they were allowed to demand...this is why i refuse to speak to them on the phone know.

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They were misleading you !! and it's a shame you didn't get the chance to say so in the hearing, you would have got a very different repayment order I'm sure. You could certainly write to them with a budget sheet - I have affixed the one we normally use in these cases. You just need to make sure there isn't a lot left over after everything has been accounted for or they will expect you to pay that towards the arrears too. I can help you word the letter if you like ?

Budget Sheet.xls


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Yeah i totally agree

but tbh if i had attending the court date i wouldnt have been able to even meet my normal payments.

..it was a trade show that we had been working towards for months.

 

Whenever ive spoken to them on the phone they've always said i must pay the arrears back very quickly and a court would def approve re possession if i didnt do this so i in fear went along with it.

 

..i did know i wouldnt be able to afford it without selling my possessions but they pushed me into filling in an income and expenditure form...over the phone without any prior notice

 

i exagerated my earnings to show i could pay it, hope that makes sense, they made it sound like if i couldnt do that i was gonna be evicted.

 

If i fill in another income and expenditure form it will show i can pay the normal mortgage and some towards the mortgage but not what the court order states.

 

..will that mean the judge if it goes back to court will take our home

, i dont have any written evidence they pushed me into it?

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You don't need any written evidence to show they pushed you into it - if you had to go back to court it would be evident to the judge that given the amount you offered to pay and the fact that you weren't there would indicate that you had been forced into that situation. Judges are well aware of these lenders practices.


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Ok, ty for that...

can i just clarify as ive had years being told different if i am able to show i can meet my normal payment and something...though not alot towards the arrears each month will a judge be happy for us to stay in our home,

 

 

could i use the Norgan ruling..

.and would the fact there is alot of equity in the property and that the mortgage was only for 50% have any bearing,

 

 

also would they take into account the reason im in arrears is due to all the building works we have carried out?

 

 

So grateful for your replies by the way..feel like im slowly starting to take control of the situation!

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Yes you are correct in that a judge would take into considertion the Norgan case, but your offer would still have to be realistic in line with your income, i.e. if you are able to pay £200 per month towards the arrears then you wouldn't get away with offering £20.

 

Was the building work necessary or because you wanted to improve the property ?


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OK, that makes sense.

Yes the building work was totally necessary,

the windows all leaked and were drafty,

the complete electrics were condemmed by my electrican and the fuse box was ancient,

the plumbing all leaked,

no insulation so very cold,

central heating didnt work...boiler and pumps all ancient and beyond repair,

double chimney stack with no support and about to collapse needed taking down as an emergency before it fell down,

roof all needed redoing and retiling as the tiles were to heavy for the structure and the timbers had woodworm..

.i could go on but i think you get the picture..

 

 

.annoying really as though we were aware of some of the problems alot of the hidden problems really should have been pointed out by the surveyor,

we had a full report done but found out after from the sellers the surveyor was in and out in 15 mins and refused to go in the attic as he didnt have a torch!

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