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Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

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I hadn't updated this thread as there is still a lack of progress with this. However I can give the following updates and explain the processes I've gone through to get to where I am today.


I allowed their technical support to troubleshoot some of the issues I was having, but sadly this didn't help and has created new problems that didn't exist. The agent meant to call me back but did not. Apparently he left a voicemail which I find odd as my mobile SIM has that function disabled as I got tired of PPI voicemails.


In the end I got fedup as I hadn't received a promised payment or the replacement SSD drive so I started an N1 Claim Form against them out of jurisdiction. I filed the papers with Salford along with a new Help with Fees application.


To do this I needed to complete Form N1 and Form N510 to file against a USA Company. Because the contracts both parties agreed to specify Luxemburg or UK Courts then my understanding is that the claim can be served without the need to request permission of the court. To do this one uses the N510 form and serves this along with the N1 form to Salford.


For anyone doing this you need to include an extra copy for every claim form you complete. So if there is 1 claimant and 1 defendant, then you include 3 forms. 1 for the Court File, 1 for the Defendants and 1 for your file.


When completing the N510 there were 2 options but I went with:

In proceedings to which CPR 6.33(2)(a) and 6.33(2)(b)(ii) apply, the statement is:

(a) no proceedings between the parties concerning the same claim are pending in the courts of any other part of the United Kingdom or any other Member State; and

(b) the defendant is not a consumer, but is a party to a consumer contract within article 17 of the said Regulation.”

Signed and dated it.


The court then returned the forms to me stamped and completed and advised me I needed to serve these on the defendant myself. I sent them their copy by Royal Mail Tracked and Signed for and they received these on the 19/11/2018. As they arrived at 10:44 which is before 16:30 they are classed as served the same day. As the defendant is outside of jurisdiction they are allowed 21 days to file an Acknowledgement of Service.


Since they have received these forms they have paid out £91.10 and sent a new 2TB SSD but refuse to do anything further to assist other than technical support. This isn't going to fix the casing crack that has appeared nor the shockingly poor battery life. I have since taken the machine to an independent IT provider (I used to work as an IT Manager but wanted someone elses input) who agreed the crack had not occurred as a result of the machine being dropped and was likely caused by fatigue in the plastic moulding itself.


Needless to say I requested judgment but as they are outside the of jurisdiction the court advised me I needed to file an N225, N215 and N244 to request the judgement. The N225 is basically the request for judgement. The N215 is the proof of service. I also included the tracking number on the form and a printout of delivery from USPS. The N244 is an application that costs £100 to request the court issue judgment. A separate Help with Fees application is also required. This can be done online and the application number written into a box on the form.


Currently I am waiting for the Court to issue judgment but I doubt I'll get this before the new year.


Once I have judgement I then make an EJ-115 application to the Courts of California to have the judgment recognised by the California Courts. Whilst the company claim they have responded to the claim, the court denies this. Either way this will come to a hearing whether in the USA or the UK. I'm travelling to Canada in February and my intention is to time case this along with those plans and I don't think they are expecting this.


They can oppose the EJ-115 application but having looked at the form and into Case Law I doubt they will get very far. But US Law is a very tricky thing to understand so I might need to consider an Attorney in the USA. I'm not sure on that bit yet as I'd like to keep this as much as Litigant in Person as possible.



How to Object: (a) Any objection to the recognition and entry of the tribal court money judgment shall be served and filed within 30

days of service of the notice of filing. If any objection is filed within this time period, the superior court shall set a time period for replies and

set the matter for a hearing. The hearing shall be held by the superior court within 45 days from the date the objection is filed unless good

cause exists for a later hearing. The only grounds for objecting to the recognition or enforcement of a tribal court money judgment are the

grounds set forth in subdivisions (b) and ©.


(b) A tribal court money judgment shall not be recognized and entered if the respondent demonstrates to the superior court that at least one

of the following occurred:

(1) The tribal court did not have personal jurisdiction over the respondent. -

This is the Terms and Conditions the seller agreed to, which reference EU Courts so Jurisdiction is givenhttps://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/external/201190440?language=en-GB&ref=mpbc_3216781_cont_201190440

(2) The tribal court did not have jurisdiction over the subject matter.

See annotation above as Jurisdiction over the subject matter is proved.


(3) The judgment was rendered under a judicial system that does not provide impartial tribunals or

procedures compatible with the requirements of due process of law.

If anything I would have thought that UK Small Claims Courts could be seen as a fairer venue than California Small Claims Courts. Having read about Small Claims Courts you generally cannot have an Attorney present you case, whereas in the UK you can...


© The superior court may, in its discretion, decline to recognize and enter a tribal court money judgment on any one of the following


(1) The defendant in the proceeding in the tribal court did not receive notice of the proceeding in sufficient time to enable the

defendant to defend.

They had 21 days to acknowledge and a further 2 weeks to defend... 5 weeks total, more than 1 month.

(2) The judgment was obtained by fraud that deprived the losing party of an adequate opportunity to present its case.

Not relevant to this case. Pre Action Protocol was followed to the letter.

(3) The judgment or the cause of action or claim for relief on which the judgment is based is repugnant to the public policy of the state or of the

United States.


(4) The judgment conflicts with another final and conclusive judgment.


(5) The proceeding in the tribal court was contrary to an agreement between the parties under which the dispute in question was to be determined otherwise than by proceedings in that tribal court.


(6) In the case of jurisdiction based on personal service only, the tribal court was a seriously inconvenient forum for the trial of the action.

Now they could argue this. But they also agreed to submit to jurisdiction of EU Courts in their terms and conditions. However I could reasonably argue that the defendants are a Company and being a consumer that a trial in the USA was a seriously inconvenient venue. I could further argue that they could have hired a Solicitor to defend a hearing in the UK if they wished.

(7) The judgment was rendered under circumstances that raise substantial doubt about the integrity of the rendering court with respect to the



(8) The specific proceeding in the tribal court leading to the judgment was not compatible with the requirements of due process of



(9) The judgment includes recovery for a claim of defamation, unless the court determines that the defamation law applied by the tribal

court provided at least as much protection for freedom of speech and the press as provided by both the United States and California


Not applicable to this case.

(d) If objections have been timely filed, the applicant has the burden of establishing that the tribal court money judgment is entitled to

recognition. If the applicant has met its burden, a party resisting recognition of the tribal court money judgment has the burden of establishing

that a ground for nonrecognition exists pursuant to subdivisions (b) or ©.

Again I believe I can prove this beyond any reasonable doubts with just some of the arguments above.


I also checked with the California Courts about Help with Fees applications and they believe I would be elidable to apply out of Country as my income is below their threshold after currency conversion. So while the company may appeal this application in the hope I don't continue because of the fees, they are mistaken as it's only going to cost me time and effort at the end of the day.


I also recently offered to waive all interest accrued to bring the matter to a close. They declined the offer.


I think that covers everything so far, just to summarise I am now waiting for the Judgement certificate before pursuing this in the USA Courts. I'll ask again for payment before doing this but I doubt I'll get anywhere. Once I have filed an EJ-115 I'll update this thread.



If anyone would like to see my PoC's or any of the forms I've completed then please do let me know as I'm happy to provide them minus personal details etc.

This is how I spend most of my life :ranger:

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Just an update. I'm having a real headache with this now because the Courts have well and truly made a complete hash of my case.

I filed action in the County Court against the company via Salford County Court Money Claims Centre. As the defendant is in the USA I had to self serve them the papers which I did by registered and tracked post. They received them and contacted me but to date an amicable agreement has not been made.

Fast forwards and after 3 weeks I heard nothing from them so I requested judgment by default. I was advised to complete forms N225, N215 and N244 with a £100 fee to request judgment outside of jurisdiction.

It later transpired a day after I filed these documents the court received a part admission of the claim with supplementary defence. I rejected the part admission as it did not satisfy my situation.

I received my Judgment against them on 04/01/2019. A few days later I received a letter saying someone had Set Aside the Judgment because I had not satisfied CPR 12 and CPR PD 12. I filed a complaint against this as this is what the N244 and N215 was for. It was referred back to a Judge for a second time who states the Judgment should remain set aside as a defence has been filed and an Affidavit was not filed (Which I was told was the N215)

It has taken the Courts nearly 2 months to investigate this and I am really frustrated as I am no closer to a hearing or judgment.

The bit that annoys me is the Court sent the part admission documents back to the defendant as a judgment had already been entered. So why is the Judge saying this should be considered in any event?

It is probable the case is now stayed. I requested this be delayed due to the time it is taking to investigate the complaint. However the courts have been tediously slow in managing my case and am at a loss what to do now.

I'm aware I can apply to have the Stay lifted for £255 (I have help with fees eligibility) but the principle is this seems to be their mistake.


Judgment granted

Defence Filed and Part Admission

Judgment set aside due to not satisfying CPR 12 (When it had been)

Complaint made and Set Aside remains

No idea if the case is Stayed or not

Court being tediously slow resolving this

This is how I spend most of my life :ranger:

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