HSBC Debt being chased in Germany

[BlackBeach]

I just got a letter from Metropolitan Collection Services of Coventry.

They're pursuing an overdraft I had with HSBC.

Last activity on the account was I think December 2010.

 

Shortly after they withdrew the overdraft cos I wasn't paying into the account regularly.

The debt is now in the region of £1250.

 

I'm on benefits here and I can't afford to pay this of in a way they'd find satisfying.

 

They have also floated the possibility of taking me to court in 'the country where you live.'

 

Anyone got any advice on how I might call off the dogs?

[cerberusalert]

Metropolitan Collection Services are HSBC, they're their in-house collection team.

 

Technically there are reciprocal agreements between EU countries where cross-border action can be taken in a German court in order to obtain a judgment. In reality given the amount you allegedly owe it would not be financially viable for them to pursue, they will be more likely to sell the debt to an outside debt collection company and claim tax on the loss.

 

With it being an O/D there isn't a great deal you can do at the moment but either ignore or make a token offer.

[BlackBeach]

Would there be any realistic chance of them selling it to a german debt collection company?

 

Also, is it possible for an overdraft to become statue barred? My life ambitions are over here for the next few years, I plan to study which is going to be more enriching mentally than financially

 

I've read a little about how it's possible to extricate yourself from credit card debt thats been sold to a collections agency by requesting the agency prove the debt, which for the most part they can't do. Do you mean that it's impossible to do something similar with overdrafts?

 

I made a typo in my first post, I owe about £1450, i think £150-200 of this must be charges accrued since I last used the account. I'm guessing this sum would still be generally too small for them to chase?

[cerberusalert]

Would there be any realistic chance of them selling it to a german debt collection company?

They could but will be more likely to sell it to a UK based DCA. They sell the debts in large portfolios in the thousands at between 7 & 15% of the face value.

 

Also, is it possible for an overdraft to become statue barred?

Yes if no written admission or payment has been made for a period of six years (five if you lived in Scotland).

 

Do you mean that it's impossible to do something similar with overdrafts?

There is no written agreement with an overdraft normally so all they would need to produce are the bank statements.

[BlackBeach]

Thanks cerber, appreciate the advice.

[cerberusalert]

With it being a UK debt it will not be recorded on your German credit file so will not affect your credit worthiness there.

[BlackBeach]

Great! Cheers and I hope your inklings about the sums involved are right

[give them FA]

THE GOLDEN RULE IS never, ever, contact a debt collection agency. Don't phone, don't write. Throw any letters they send you straight in the bin. If they have your telephone number, if a person you can't identify calls, ask them who they are BEFORE confirming your identity. They always introduce themselves by the first name and try to slur over where they are from. Then just tell them politely that they have the wrong number and hang up.

 

The agency will NOT enter into any form of Court process unless it is certain to be successful and they are sure of enforcement. Otherwise they are throwing money away with costs. If they get no feedback from you they cannot be sure that you live where they are writing to and will have no information about you.

 

They will send a few letters and if there is no response sell the debt on to another agency to recoup some of their investment. The process may then start again, but, eventually, they will give up.

 

Maybe for you it's too late to follow this advice BlackBeach but others take note?

 

Worked for me. I owed over £100,000 in unsecured debt. Was willing to deal with original creditors but they didn't have the patience to listen and sold the debts on. I wasn't going to pay the parasites and am well over half way to the debts being statute barred. Early on I was getting up to 100 letters a month but I ignored the lot and now there is only the odd one every now and then.

 

Chin up buddy they will do nothing.

[poundhound1808]

FA, were you abroad when your troubles began, or did you move whilst the hassling was already underway?

[give them FA]

I sold my house in England and moved abroad about a year later. I had a post redirect operating for two years to a friends house in England to get mail. I was actually staying with another friend pending going abroad. Because my debts were spread over about 15 creditors, I was getting sackfulls of mail from many different agencies. Because I never replied to any of them, didn't send them back, just binned them, they kept on writing to my old address long after I moved out of it. They didn't realise for a very long time that I wasn't there any more! It followed a simple pattern, I would get a few letters from one agency, then they gave up and passed it to another. Then they must have got my redirection address from Royal Mail, either legally or illegally, and some of them started writing direct to there. My friend marked those "Not at this address" and return to sender.

So they are still writing to addresses in England even though I left the country two years ago. That is what I mean when I say never ever talk to them. All they want to do is bully you and they can't do that if you don't speak to them. The threats of court action are totally empty. They won't take action unless they are sure of their ground or the risk throwing away court and legal fees. If they don't know where you are then the problem would be enforcement and they know this.

 

Now all I get (when I go back to England and collect my post) are maybe 1 or 2 letters a month. They have effectively given up. Not one of the debts has been taken to court. As I said I might have come to some arrangement with original creditors had they not been so intransigent when I had problems; but they have now all written the debts off so there is no way I will pay anything to these leeching parasites.

 

So, no contact at all is the way to go. Even if you have spoken to them, its probably not too late, break off all further contact, don't take any phone calls and mark all letters "gone away".

[BlackBeach]

Thanks for all your replies earlier. I've still not been able to make any payments and I received another letter this morning. Dated the 6th of October, arrived on the 24th!

 

They say that if I don't give them £1245 by the 27th they'll want the full £1464. They say they'll transfer my account to "a local firm of lawyers who may take Legal Action."

 

I wonder if anyone knows the significance of a 15% reduction? What does that sort of move usually prefigure?

[cerberusalert]

It's normal for them to offer a small reduction, after all they'll have added charges anyway.

 

Personally I would ignore them & see what other creature crawls from under a rock.

[BlackBeach]

Cheers. This is getting to be a regular cycle! Every time I get one of these letters my heart goes into my mouth and I get visions of a hoard of German beurocrats and lawyers battering my door down, then I come on here and feel a little more at ease again. Hope it all works out like you all report!

[give them FA]

If you just go with everything they say is bullsh*t then you will be right. Ignore them my friend. Its the one reaction they can't cope with.

[BlackBeach]

So I come back to this thread every time I get a letter. Can't help it, they give me the fear!

 

This one, also from Metropolitan Collection Services says that they're referring the account to a company called DG Solicitors (no further info given) who will contact me in the next 14 days. Also "they have been selected to work with you to help understand your present circumstances and where possible, agree an affordable and appropriate payment arrangement."

 

 

Anyone know what this means in practical terms? Does this sound like they're actually going to chase the debt? Or what they mean by "affordable and appropriate"? My fear all alon is that what they think of as affordable would seriously knock my life off track so I'm very nervous to speak to them without getting some advice over here

[cerberusalert]

DG solicitors are infact the next desk along from Metropolitan Collection Services.

 

DG Solicitors information

Company Name

DG Solicitors

 

Correspondence Address

12 Calthorpe Road

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 1QZ

 

 

 

 

Registered Address

C/O HSBC Bank Plc

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

 

 

 

Reg Company Number

00014259

 

Parent Company

HSBC Group

 

Consumer Credit Licence

0006343

 

Website

http://www.hsbc.co.uk

 

 

[edit]Director's Details

Non Executive Director

Anthony Robin Dominic Monro-Davies

 

Direct Postal Address

Milbourne House

Station Road

London

SW13 0LW

 

 

 

Non Executive Director

Peter Michael Shawyer

 

Direct Postal Address

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

 

 

Managing Director - UK Banking

Paul Anthony Thurston

 

Direct Postal Address

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

 

 

Non Executive Director

John Francis Trueman

 

Direct Postal Address

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

 

 

Non Executive Director

Mary Elizabeth Marsh

 

Direct Postal Address

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

 

 

Non Executive Director

Rosemary Elisabeth Scudamore Martin

 

Direct Postal Address

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

[BlackBeach]

You're always in the know! Does the fact that it's been passed on to them change my position at all?

[give them FA]

Not in the slightest. I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply, as they say in Parliament. They will do NOTHING if you ignore them. I have had enough of these letters from bogus solicitors to paper a room. Put it in the bin and forget it.

[BlackBeach]

Thats mate. I'll probably be back on here whenever the next one arrives, they still manage to give me the willies.

[give them FA]

Look at it from their point of view. Sending a few letters trying to give you the willies costs them a few pence in postage. Paying a REAL solicitor to write a letter would set them back £50, and it would still go in the bin. I don't know what the situation is in Germany but here, commencing and following court proceedings would set them back £100- £200 and no costs allowed for any solicitor they use. If they get no feedback from you, they don't know anything about you, and won't risk putting up those sort of sums with no guarantee of a return. So- they write between four and six letters and if they get nothing back they give up. You will get one- possibly two- letters from the in-house solicitor, then nothing more provided you don't reply.

 

As I told you, I speak from a wealth of personal experience here. I know it may be distressing to get threatening letters, but they are just full of wind. DCA's by and large don't want the expense and hassle of court proceedings especially abroad.

 

Learn the PO box return address on the back and put the letters in the bin unopened. You could return them marked "Not at this address" in German, but I doubt they would find their way back to England.

 

Treat these parasites with the utter disrespect they deserve!

[horus]

Their next port of call will probably be Bluestone Law in the US - again don't panic - just follow the info above or send them the prove it letter.

[give them FA]

I never got anything from Bluestone Law. But whatever you get, ignore it, buddy. By replying you have confirmed that the letter reached you and that is what they want to hear. With respect, Horus, why bother to ask them to prove it? That makes it sound like you are willing to negotiate and that will only encourage them.. I have totally ignored the best part of 1,000 letters from a wide spectrum of DCA's and their pet solicitors and not a single one has done anything about it.

[horus]

It was advice I got here - I ignored HSBC, MCS and GT Law or whatever they're called then it went out to Bluestone I asked on here if I should send that letter and was told yes...so I did. Only thing I've had back is a list of payments which they alleged are statements and prove I made payments to HSBC. This list had my name, sort code and account number on it and was sent to an unverified email address. Considering taking legal action for a breach of the DPA at the moment.

[give them FA]

Well, you could, but if the company is American I believe that you would have to take action in their jurisdiction- not easy if you live in Europe.

 

What I have learned both at first and second hand is that these people just want you to "bite" and get involved in communication. If you don't communicate they don't do anything, except give up and stop writing. Therefore my advice always is- blank them. No matter what they say or threaten. They are all full of sh*t. I have seen off a good 20 or 30 DCAs just by ignoring them, so I believe it's good advice.

[gerson]

german debt law.doc

 

 

Hi Blackbeach,

 

Hope you are enjoying the Glüwein!

 

AFAIK and I am no expert - the attachment gives the law as I see it currently.

 

In Germany having a debt is a big no no - which is why most German Credit Cards are linked to your bank account(s). Some are now providing 'proper' credit card accounts but they are difficult to get, especailly for an ex-pat....

 

Additionally it is not possible for the creditor to get a UK CCJ on you as this can only be given to individuals who reside in the UK, so forget about getting one - even if they do manage to get one by default there are ways to have this set-aside.

 

Fröhliche Weihnachten und ein gutes neuse Jahr!

 

G