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I was just wondering... If it ever game to the govt. not agreeing to support long-standing EU residents and revoke their stay, how would that pan out if they had kids here?

 

For example someone who's German, with a British partner (not married) but has kids which were born here etc... I got into a fairly heated argument with a buddy of mine about this so it'd be interesting to see where the views stand.

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We've seen similar in the media where one parent can be deported even though married. You're right to question as we only get to know of cases reported and does it make a difference where you're married or if you're married.

 

Maybe a legal on here with how immigration law works in these cases and various scenarios can throw light on the matter.

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adridude, I was reading this article the other day in respect of a situation such as you describe.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/06/brexit-dutch-woman-told-leave-uk-monique-hawkins-stay

 

I do find it quite strange that she only recently applied for permanent residency though.


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People can change their minds on these issues and Brexit is likely to cause more applications.


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Problem with leave to remain etc is the cost/requirements factor. mainly a Tory money grabbing area again as I have reported before Thatcher signed the UN Charter of "Right to Family Unity" albeit she left it to the last minute and was 2nd to last to sign it, what difference did it make - NON that is the civl service/government response


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If say 500,000 EU mainland citizens arrived in the weeks before any Brexit date, there is b*gger all a UK Government can do about them being here. They can't cope with non EU citizens who are illegally in the EU and certainly won't employ enough Border Agency and Home Office staff to deal with all the extra work that will be created.

 

Brexit will make immigration and Visa issues far worse than they are at the moment. It will be a complete shambles and the net migration target of tens of thousands will never be met.


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adridude, I was reading this article the other day in respect of a situation such as you describe.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/06/brexit-dutch-woman-told-leave-uk-monique-hawkins-stay

 

I do find it quite strange that she only recently applied for permanent residency though.

 

 

 

There wasnt any need before was there? Particular given the "bureaucratic nightmare" of applying.

 

 

 

I wonder how many UK citizens born and raised in the UK of UK parents and UK grandparents going back beyond the domesday book:

Dont have a UK pictorial ID card or even a UK passport?

 

Now lets say that some change to the rules which were reported in as 'clear and 'concise a way as the Brexit requirements and issues, might at some time in the future (according to some peoples speculations) require in as yet unclear and uncertain ways; that you have one or both of those, would you be rushing out to pay £xxx and jump through a"bureaucratic nightmare" to get one, particularly has you have been absolutely fine so far?

... and that the requirements almost certainly could be changing in some undefined way which might make the current application requirements and process obsolete and/or invalid anyway?

 

 

Anybody (let alone someone who hasn't had to go through it) actually know the differences between

Residency

Dual nationality

automatic rights on marrying a UK citizen

plus any other 'states' of nationality I dont at this stage even know exist. let alone the legal issues?


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Many eu citizens here have retained their eu passport and had kids registered as uk citizens holding UK passport.

What are they going to do?

Deport the parents and keep the kids?

I don't think anything will happen to people already settled in UK, especially if they have British children.

Changing anything would be a nightmare.

Imagine all the eu citizens putting their house on the market all at the same time: That would create caos.

Also, imagine all eu citizens resigning from their job all at the same time: Economic crash guaranteed.

I personally think that we will go back to the same rules that were here before the eu, when ue citizens could come and go without a visa, but were not automatically entitled to services and welfare money.

Same will apply to UK citizens in Europe.

Any other solution would cause complete caos.

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Quote:- from above post:- Default Re: Brexit & Foreign Nationals

Many eu citizens here have retained their eu passport and had kids registered as uk citizens holding UK passport.

What are they going to do?

Deport the parents and keep the kids' :-----

 

Well strange you should ask that = yes they cannot stop the child entry but a parent of a different nationality can be stopped or go thru the hoops to get entry clearance, even at the immigration point of entry a non UK pasport holder can be turned away as they get interviewed and medically checked at airport, and they have to answer querstions as well as say the Husband/Spouse who gets asked certain questions and any conflicting answers mean further investigation and may be refusal and visa cancelled even when a child has a UK passport. unless all this changed in the last Decade or so - bet not?


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Guest Mrs Hobbit

The questions get harder each time I come through. It depends on the Officer on the desk. i do not hold a British passport or an EU passport. it also depends on which airport you arrive at.

I do have to carry my passport with my original visa in it, i carry my indefinite leave to remain letter from the Home office, (as I cannot have my passport out of my possession for six months so i will not pay for the new card. I had to pay for the Visa originally and pay a lot. I am not prepared to pay lot of money for the card). I have been resident here for 20 odd years, married to a British national which is all noted in my current passport. I have worked and paid my taxes, so am not a drain on any resources. I have bought a house here, we joke that Old Hobbit married me for my money.

 

When I went home to get my passport renewed and in my new married name, I had to jump through hoops back home and had to do a formal name change as I had not remarried back home but here in the UK. That is also another story of UK bureaucracy in action, left hand not knowing what the right did or the regulations.

 

When i go home or to the States, I also have to carry a utility bill showing I am domiciled with right of leave to remain in the UK and have the right of return. One time travelling on United, a Boots Loyalty card was proof for the Jobsworth, as I didn't ave a utility bill on me..I can write a book about the fun I have at departure desks and Jobsworths.

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Don't you just get the feeling that Brexit will cause huge complications that have not been thought about.

 

Most rights to access services such as healthcare relate to residency in a country and whether you qualify or not for access the same as someone born in a country. If you take Spain as an example, from what i understand, UK nationals resident in Spain only qualify for access to Spanish public healthcare, if they are of state pension age or are registered in Spain paying local national insurance tax or covered by EHIC as temporary visitors. After Brexit UK pensioners in Spain may not qualify for local public healthcare unless UK Government signs a new agreement to pay Spain full cost of treatments. I just can't see UK Government stopping NHS treatment Spanish citizens resident in the UK and invoicing Spain.

 

Brexit will just mean mountains of paperwork required to replace all of the agreements that have been agreed over a long period. And on top of that you will have a massive amount of red tape required to operate a much bigger visa system, as well as import/export documentation on goods.

 

No chance of Brexit in 2 years on any basis.


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my wife has a UK/EU passport but obviously foreign (far eastern) originally went to Cyprus to visit relations few years ago and whilst on holiday there has a Afro hair style done, well on leaving at Larnaca airport was put thru the hoops stating you prove this is you in the passport ( the picture itself showe scars which she always has on her face) then she also had a works ID card/driving licence, medical card/original country ID Card, and told them to ring her employer in the UK to confirm also me. they would not, they contacted UK immigration and only then after 30 minutes the phone rang and she just made the return flight via Lufthansa via frankfurt back to UK.


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probably go back to EU visitors passport as we did before Econmic joiniing itin the very early 70s


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Don't you just get the feeling that Brexit will cause huge complications that have not been thought about.

 

Most rights to access services such as healthcare relate to residency in a country and whether you qualify or not for access the same as someone born in a country. If you take Spain as an example, from what i understand, UK nationals resident in Spain only qualify for access to Spanish public healthcare, if they are of state pension age or are registered in Spain paying local national insurance tax or covered by EHIC as temporary visitors. After Brexit UK pensioners in Spain may not qualify for local public healthcare unless UK Government signs a new agreement to pay Spain full cost of treatments. I just can't see UK Government stopping NHS treatment Spanish citizens resident in the UK and invoicing Spain.

 

Brexit will just mean mountains of paperwork required to replace all of the agreements that have been agreed over a long period. And on top of that you will have a massive amount of red tape required to operate a much bigger visa system, as well as import/export documentation on goods.

 

No chance of Brexit in 2 years on any basis.

 

Visa system already in place but would have to implemented back to the orignial system, it worked as long as they government keeps their hands off it, everthing they touch goes wrong as you cannot miss seeing!


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Visa system already in place but would have to implemented back to the orignial system, it worked as long as they government keeps their hands off it, everthing they touch goes wrong as you cannot miss seeing!

 

They can't handle current numbers and i can't see Government increasing spending on additional civil servants.


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Quote:- from above post:- Default Re: Brexit & Foreign Nationals

Many eu citizens here have retained their eu passport and had kids registered as uk citizens holding UK passport.

What are they going to do?

Deport the parents and keep the kids' :-----

 

Well strange you should ask that = yes they cannot stop the child entry but a parent of a different nationality can be stopped or go thru the hoops to get entry clearance, even at the immigration point of entry a non UK pasport holder can be turned away as they get interviewed and medically checked at airport, and they have to answer querstions as well as say the Husband/Spouse who gets asked certain questions and any conflicting answers mean further investigation and may be refusal and visa cancelled even when a child has a UK passport. unless all this changed in the last Decade or so - bet not?

 

I probably misunderstood your post.

Are you saying that if a eu national living in UK with british children goes abroad and when trying to re-enter UK would be prevented from doing so?

What if the children only hold UK passport?

Are they going to take them from the parents and give them up for adoption?

Remember, this is UK not some weird country who don't care about humans.

Do you really think that we will go from championing human rights and bragging about being the leaders on this, to scrapping all of it, break up families and take eu nationals homes away from them???

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Don't you just get the feeling that Brexit will cause huge complications that have not been thought about.

 

Most rights to access services such as healthcare relate to residency in a country and whether you qualify or not for access the same as someone born in a country. If you take Spain as an example, from what i understand, UK nationals resident in Spain only qualify for access to Spanish public healthcare, if they are of state pension age or are registered in Spain paying local national insurance tax or covered by EHIC as temporary visitors. After Brexit UK pensioners in Spain may not qualify for local public healthcare unless UK Government signs a new agreement to pay Spain full cost of treatments. I just can't see UK Government stopping NHS treatment Spanish citizens resident in the UK and invoicing Spain.

 

Brexit will just mean mountains of paperwork required to replace all of the agreements that have been agreed over a long period. And on top of that you will have a massive amount of red tape required to operate a much bigger visa system, as well as import/export documentation on goods.

 

No chance of Brexit in 2 years on any basis.

 

The way things are going it will be near complete breakaway especially if the Tories get full control ( dictatorships) you seen nothing yet, the populous will see it too late, that is why she has gone for an election early knowing labour supporters are against the main stay leadership, 7 years of Tories - Helpppppppppppppppp seen all too often in the past 70 odd years. down the people and keep them down by using Sherrif of Nottinghams Taxes, that keeps them worried and no go against us! = History repeates itself so often! - No Robin Hoods as no money in that for personal gain!

 

Oppssss sorry been told before keep quiet as my forecast of events tend to be near true as you can get,


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I probably misunderstood your post.

Are you saying that if a eu national living in UK with british children goes abroad and when trying to re-enter UK would be prevented from doing so?

What if the children only hold UK passport?

Are they going to take them from the parents and give them up for adoption?

Remember, this is UK not some weird country who don't care about humans.

Do you really think that we will go from championing human rights and bragging about being the leaders on this, to scrapping all of it, break up families and take eu nationals homes away from them???

 

the child would travel back with the parent who was refused if it happened bearing in mind if the other parent deemed not able to bring in the possition to cope? believe you me at the airport ( personal experiance as seen on TV) could happen in extreme circumstances - the old law " NO Recourse to Public Funds" - Non EU citizens.

 

Immigration from out side EU is a Mine field beleive you me.

 

 

Even down to an Embassy Registrar involved in a battle with me/wife signed letters for tribunals etc, -- guess what after intervention eventually by thre Foreign office after being approached by a Barrister MP in those days She issued UK birth certificate for my daughter , and the approach of the embassy changed over night from being obnotious to helpful and when after tribunals here a just three words on last page of trubunal investigation - they fell over them selves to be professional and issue Visas etc


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Guest Mrs Hobbit

I would hope there is a certain amount of discretion allowed in the case of EU national parent and UK born children. after all, the child's passort application would have all the parent's information on it as well as nationality. if the parent has the correct paperwork , visas etc i can't see this being a problem. If you are here illegally that will be another matter. I think at the departure desks, there will be extra screening to make sure the parents would have the right of return to the UK in place before leaving.

 

I will never forget the interview I had to go through to get a marriage license. I had all my documentation including late husband's death certificate as well all other paperwork required then it was announced i did not need this interview as the new regulations were put in place for people of non British or Commonwealth Countries with leave to remain. the jobsworths locally mis read the instruction so i had to go to the regional office to find this out, it took me nearly six weeks of bureaucracy hoops jumping to find this out, so back to local office with letter telling them to read the regulations and issue the marriage license. When i first came to the UK, i had to have medical insurance and was not allowed to be a drain on the public purse, this was for 12 months. I made sure I did not cancel my medical insurance back home and that i was covered for any thing that happened here in the UK. I was in work within 10 days arriving and paying NI from Day One.

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Mrs Hobbit - went through all that as well also must admit local registry office locally were on the ball i.e. issue on wall the 14 days wait i..e. no impedement certificate for british/overseas countries regiistrars but the embassy was another bad story as you portraid above


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Guest Mrs Hobbit

Being mean, non EU Nationals really have to go through hoops to enter this country legally, so maybe now is the time for all have to go through the same procedures. Eu nationals who are here lagally and lawfully remain after Brexit, those who do not have the correct credentials should get their house in order NOW if they want to remain.

 

we need to get OLD Hobbit residancy in my country, staff at Embassy here in London were of no use, we went home spoke to Immigration and got hold of the right person first off. No problems, we explained everything, had the documentation in hand, Old Hobbit was welcomed with open arms. he also has to have medical insurance for the first two years (roles reversed) once we get back there to live. they know our marriage is not a 'marriage of convenisnce' , as we now have been married seven years.

 

Now to sell this house, and settle our affairs in the UK. The cats still have to go through export regulatations.

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They can't handle current numbers and i can't see Government increasing spending on additional civil servants.

 

 

 

current numbers you can see at the queues mostly EU natiionals, a drop would go back to original outside EU no doubt, depends on what the Brexit terms throw up, they should just say we are out that is it no messing around not the IFs/buts etc the people spoke do it> no fees etc


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current numbers you can see at the queues mostly EU natiionals, a drop would go back to original outside EU no doubt, depends on what the Brexit terms throw up, they should just say we are out that is it no messing around not the IFs/buts etc the people spoke do it> no fees etc

 

Don't understand your comment. This is not just about queues at border control.

 

Say i am an engineer from Hungary, Germany or Spain. I have worked for a UK company before and then gone back home. UK Government then implements immigration controls on EU citizens and there is a national quota for Engineers visas, as well as an overall numbers cap. The UK embassy in the EU countries then refuses to issue a work visa and this causes problems. You have the UK company not very happy contacting UK Government and you have the EU national unable to travel to the UK to work and live.

 

In my local area, i have Spanish, French, Italian and German owned companies. The work they do serves the UK market, but also they export goods to the EU. Part of the current deal with these companies is that British employees can go to work in EU factories and EU nationals can come to the UK to work. Implement strict work visa requirements and caps would prove to be a pain in the backside. I suspect that some of the work serving the EU market will be moved to EU mainland. Companies might not bother going through any visa process.


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specialist area = visas come to mind! i.e. always use to and maybe still do have certain criterea for specialist jobs normally that cannot be fulfilled with in the UK , same as Australia etc use to and may still do = specialist not able to fulfill/ to cover within own country, same as a lot use to go to the Middle east as engineers for military assistance and or specialist construction areas where local work force not available. like have stated before all this has to thrashed out we are not involved in negotiaions the government responsibility, and most of our comments were regarding non EU visas etc.


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specialist area = visas come to mind! i.e. always use to and maybe still do have certain criterea for specialist jobs normally that cannot be fulfilled with in the UK , same as Australia etc use to and may still do = specialist not able to fulfill/ to cover within own country, same as a lot use to go to the Middle east as engineers for military assistance and or specialist construction areas where local work force not available. like have stated before all this has to thrashed out we are not involved in negotiaions the government responsibility, and most of our comments were regarding non EU visas etc.

 

If you are an ordinary bloke or lady working for an EU owned factory, you might have voted for Brexit because you were worried about population increases causing difficulties with school place numbers and NHS. In would not have occured to these people that voting Brexit might just lead to their employers reducing job numbers or even closing factories.

 

I would not trust UK Government to run a sensible and efficient work visa system, as well as creating conditions where foreign companies found the environment so beneficial they would never think of reducing UK operations.


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