log book loans - can i sell the car?

[JonCris]

lopez seek advice at your CAB The LBL agreement may not be enforcable under the act

[nellie75]

yes do so asap good luck x

[matt-man]

Hiya

 

Horsemad mentioned the thing about loans4logbooks.co.uk, i have one of these and yes they did take the original log book, MOT & ins document. Does that mean they can legally take possesion of my car?

 

Matt

[nellie75]

Hiya

 

Horsemad mentioned the thing about loans4logbooks.co.uk, i have one of these and yes they did take the original log book, MOT & ins document. Does that mean they can legally take possesion of my car?

 

Matt

 

Hi Matt

 

They can't LEGALLY take it but they will claim they own the car through the Bill of Sale agreement, take it they say you signed one of these? This is the main problem, because they claim ownership from the moment you signed up with them they don't really care how you conduct your account and will take the car at the first opertunity - this is how they make their money, I know LBL have a very busy repossession department:rolleyes:

 

As we all know, the agreements they use are unenforcable for many reasons but they are slippery fish and bank on people not knowing their rights and having little legal knowledge.

 

But in front of a judge they stand no chance and urge anyone who has had dealings with these people to hang in there, its only a matter of time untill they are brought to justice.

[matt-man]

So if they do try and reposses my car all i need to do is ask for the deed of exectution that followed the CCJ, if they can't produce these then they can't take it, right?

[nellie75]

Did you sign or did they say you signed a Bill of Sale?

[barbs26]

Hi all, im in the same boat with lbl,had car taken,have spoken with them said they sold it,i have spoken to consumer advice and they have refered it to trading standards(just waiting for them to call) In the mean time im going to cab to go through all paperwork i have and get some more advice.Consumer advice were pretty sure a criminal offence had taken place,but will ave to wait and see.(will keep you posted)put 1 things for sore i wont be giving up.

[nellie75]

Good on you Barbs!

 

You will find Trading Standards a little slow on the uptake in my experience, this is mainly because this type of company is quite new to them and its only now that things are coming to light about this company. Great you have reported them, the more of us that do will help bring them into the spotlight where they belong. Problem with this type of company is they think the [problem] is flawless as most people who deal with them are embarressed to even have used their services (I know I am) and don't normally have the money to pursue them in court.

 

Their agreements that they rely on are totally laughable legally and need to be challenged by all of us. My day in court is coming then I can post the facts about how this company has conned thousands of pounds from innocent people who went to them for help.

 

When you go to C.A.B you need to mention that the agreements are unenforcable and can be challenged under so many pionts, one route you can go down is unfair terms in contracts act. It would be helpfull if you could get a solicitor who deals in consumer law to look them over for you, most have free hourly appointments and they can help you start a court case against them

 

Hang in there and let us know how things go!!

[barbs26]

thanks nellie,can i just check with you in your contract did you have the no repo if paid over a 1/3?If so should that be in a lbl contracts?

[biggirlsblouse001]

If you signed a bill of sale and handed over your log book you won't be able to sell the car

[lbl]

Hi folks,

 

I'm waiting for permission from a mod to post properly, but may be in a position to assist some of you. Won't say any more until I receive a response to my PM.

[barbs26]

Hi lbl,

Interesting do lets us no if you get permission.

[caprikid]

Hi Everyone , I phoned trading standards again today they seem to be taking more of an intrest in Log Book Loans now it could be because of all the complaints about this company . When Log Book Loans first took my car (12/12/06) I phoned trading standards and they did write to Log Book Loans to tell them they had no right to take my car but Log Book just replied take us to court then !!.

 

Trading Standards said there is no more we can do I would have to take Log Book Loans to court on my own so thats what is happening with some help from Alison at the Bailiffs watchdog . I have never hear from trading standards for a good few weeks because they said they had done all they can do but they phoned today when I was out and left a message saying that they might be able to help more and I was to get back to them .

 

I tried phoning when I got home but they were closed so I wont be able to phone them again until monday I will keep you all informed as to what they say I have a feeling they might have come up with something . Alex

[caprikid]

Thats interesting, something really does need to be done about these people. We only took out £1000, I missed 2 £40 payments & it was put straight onto Gemini Bailiffs! Now we are paying £100 a week to these people until we've paid back the full £2600!!!!!! :mad: The thing is though, i never gave them my log book, insuarance, MOT or anything so do they really have a right to take my car?? I'm actually planning on moving house soon, as soon as that happens they car whistle for the rest, I could actually afford 2 mortgages for what I pay these cowboys!!!

 

I had my car uplifted by Gemini so be warned they do come and take your car I was making payments to Gemini through internet banking and they said I missed 2 payments I have the statement to proof I payed them my bank also sent me a letter confirming that they had made the payments to Gemini.

 

Gemini knew that the loan was near the end I only had a few payments left but they know my car was worth lots more that the balance of the loan so they said I missed to payments just as an excuse to come and get my car .

 

I said on here many times that I had payed over twice the amount I borrowed and they also got my car worth around £1300 they must be making a fortune doing this. My car was a classic ford capri in mint condition and the value is going up all the time now as these cars are getting rare .

 

I think Gemini are just as bad as Log Book Loans and something needs to be done about them to . I reported my car missing on the capri club site and someone found it for me but it was down in England so I could not get down for it or I would have taken it back . Gemini were charging me a fortune for storing the car until it was sold they said it was in a secure compound but I had photos of where it was from the person who found my car and it was just sitting at the back of a garage out in the open .

 

I wish I was able to go down and get it back because I now know they had taken the car illegaly without a court order and they were bailiffs who have no powers in Scotland anyway . It makes me mad that we have no protection in this country even the Scottish Executive said to me that they had no right to take my car . I miss my car she was my hobbie and I will now have to save up for about a year until I get another capri . Alex

[caprikid]

Will I be able to win in a small claims court against Log Book Loans ??? if taking my car was illegal . Alex

[oz4725]

I had my car uplifted by Gemini so be warned they do come and take your car I was making payments to Gemini through internet banking and they said I missed 2 payments I have the statement to proof I payed them my bank also sent me a letter confirming that they had made the payments to Gemini.

 

Gemini knew that the loan was near the end I only had a few payments left but they know my car was worth lots more that the balance of the loan so they said I missed to payments just as an excuse to come and get my car .

 

I said on here many times that I had payed over twice the amount I borrowed and they also got my car worth around £1300 they must be making a fortune doing this. My car was a classic ford capri in mint condition and the value is going up all the time now as these cars are getting rare .

 

I think Gemini are just as bad as Log Book Loans and something needs to be done about them to . I reported my car missing on the capri club site and someone found it for me but it was down in England so I could not get down for it or I would have taken it back . Gemini were charging me a fortune for storing the car until it was sold they said it was in a secure compound but I had photos of where it was from the person who found my car and it was just sitting at the back of a garage out in the open .

 

I wish I was able to go down and get it back because I now know they had taken the car illegaly without a court order and they were bailiffs who have no powers in Scotland anyway . It makes me mad that we have no protection in this country even the Scottish Executive said to me that they had no right to take my car . I miss my car she was my hobbie and I will now have to save up for about a year until I get another capri . Alex

 

Do you know the exact whereabouts of your car. I'm north of the M62,but i travel a lot. If you know where it is PM me and i'll happily go and get it back for you.

[JonCris]

If you signed a bill of sale and handed over your log book you won't be able to sell the car

 

Sorry big girl but the 'bill of sale' isn't worth the paper it's written on

[JonCris]

PS everyone they don't use 'bailiffs' even if they claim they are nor do they have a 'court order' If they show up call the police

[caprikid]

PS everyone they don't use 'bailiffs' even if they claim they are nor do they have a 'court order' If they show up call the police

 

I tried phoning the police but they said it was a civil matter and they would no come out to stop them . I am starting to think they have got away with this because I have tried everything I can now. Alex

[JonCris]

It is NOT a civil matter.

 

It's theft plain & simple but then the police don't understand the law nor do they care. Go to the nick & tell them you have been advised to report your car stolen........Also speak to TS

[caprikid]

It is NOT a civil matter.

 

It's theft plain & simple but then the police don't understand the law nor do they care. Go to the nick & tell them you have been advised to report your car stolen........Also speak to TS

 

I have been to TS they did write to LBL but they were told that they dont need a court order to take the car . TS told me that they didn't think it was legal for them to take the car but there was no more they can do so I would have to take LBL to court on my own but I cant get legal aid . When I reported my car stolen to the police they came out a took a stament from me they sent a report to the procuater fiscal to see if any crime had been commited .

 

The Procuater fiscal said it was a civil matter and I would have to take LBL to court The only hope I have now is the balilffs watchdog they are looking into this for me . Cheers Alex

[JonCris]

cap then go & see your MP & ask why no one is enforcing the law & protecting consumers against these people point him/her in the direction of this site.

 

Point out that these same agencies (the Police & TS), it is claimed by the government, will protect vunerable debtors against the excess's & illegal conduct of such firm when the new law is passed allowing the forced entry & assault of ordinary citizens

[caprikid]

cap then go & see your MP & ask why no one is enforcing the law & protecting consumers against these people point him/her in the direction of this site.

 

Point out that these same agencies (the Police & TS), it is claimed by the government, will protect vunerable debtors against the excess's & illegal conduct of such firm when the new law is passed allowing the forced entry & assault of ordinary citizens

 

I wrote to my local MP (Menzies Cambell) but he has not got back to me yet I will have to try phoning him . Alison Laughton (bailiffs watchdog) is the only one who has taken an interest in this if you do a serch by typing her name into a search you will be able to read all about her she has helped many other people with this sort of problem . I have phoned and written to the BBC watchdog but they have not got back to me I will keep on fighting though but there is not much help out there for people who are dealing with LBL. Alex

[JonCris]

Oh! I think there are few who are going after this lot

[lbl]

***Disclaimer*** I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. This post applies to England and Wales only.***

 

 

Ok, here goes.

 

I've read all of the threads relating to Logbook Loans and with the permission of the moderators would like to address some of the points made with a view to clearing up misunderstandings.

 

Logbook Loans With the exception of 3 or 4 small franchises, Logbook Loans is a trading name of Nine Regions Ltd (company number 04286387) which changed its name from Log Book Loans Nine Regions Ltd in 2001. Other companies listing the same registered office address are: Nine Regions 2 Ltd (company number 04152421), Logbook Loans Ltd (company number 03636230), Logbook Loans GB Ltd (Dormant), Log Book Loans International Franchising Ltd (Dissolved), Log Book Loans (Northern) Ltd (Dissolved) and Log Book Loans (UK) Regions Ltd (company number 04987334) To all intents and purposes, the only one you need be interested in is Nine Regions Ltd as this is the company which grants the loan and executes the Bill of Sale.

 

 

The Bill of Sale:

 

This document assigns ownership of the car to Logbook Loans by way of security for the payment of sums due under the consumer credit agreement. It forms part of the consumer credit agreement to which it relates. The lender can seize the vehicle under the following circumstances.

7. Seizure That in case the Borrower shall make default in payment or be in breach of any obligation in it or in the performance of any covenant or agreement contained in this Bill of Sale and necessary for maintaining this security or if he shall do or suffer any manner or thing whereby he shall become a bankrupt or shall suffer the Vehicle to be distrained for rent, rates or taxes or if he shall not without reasonable excuse upon demand in writing by the Lender produce to it the last receipt for rent, rates and taxes or if execution shall during the continuance of this security have been levied against the goods including the vehicle of the Borrower under any judgement at law then and in any such case it shall be lawful for the lender it's servants or agents to the Borrower to seize and take possession of the vehicle from the property of the Borrower or from any public place, and to use reasonable and proportionate measures to seize and take possession of the vehicle from any other place

So, providing that the following conditions have been met, no court order or CCJ is necessary for them to seize the vehicle.

 

1) The customer is fully aware of the implications of the document and have been provided with a copy. (Did the rep explain fully to you what you were signing?, have you signed a "customer statement" stating that you understand the conditions?, were you provided with "pre-contract information?)

 

2) The Bill of Sale and an accompanying affidavit have been signed by the customer and the representative and sworn by a solicitor.

 

3) The Bill of Sale has been registered with the Actions Dept at the Royal Courts of Justice in London within 7 clear days of it's execution, or, in the case of late registration, been granted an order extending the date for registration.

 

4) You have been issued with a default notice because of either missed payments or failure to maintain the vehicle or insurance payments.

 

5) You have attempted to resell the vehicle or dispose of it in any other manner or have otherwise breached the conditions of the Bill of Sale.

 

Point 1 comes down to your word against theirs, but if enough people swear that they did not know what they were signing, it will create at least doubt.

 

Point 2 and 3 can be verified by an SAR to the Actions Department at the Royal Courts of Justice, it will cost £10 and should yield a copy of the bill of sale as sworn and registered. If there is no Bill of Sale at the court, then it is not valid under the Bills of Sale act.

 

Points 4 and 5 are self explanatory.

 

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APR Customers are (allegedly) frequently told - "Don't worry about the APR, it doesn't really mean anything, the interest rate is 7% a month"

 

Charges Logbook Loans recently changed their charges for letters and phone calls to £12 per item. However, be aware that phone calls are charged for whether or not they actually manage to speak to you. Each "attempt" is charged. They will negotiate on charges if you "top-up" or settle your loan. Customers who frequently rack up "late payment" charges are (allegedly) considered better customers than those who pay on time as they are (allegedly) more profitable. Letters are produced automatically by the "system" and are only folded, enveloped and posted by hand. There is no "manual intervention" in deciding who should get an arrears letter.

 

Affordability Logbook Loans are (allegedly) likely to offer you a "top-up" loan even if you are in arrears or have been threatened with reposession because of the above point. (allegedly) No evidence of your ability to afford a higher weekly payment is taken. There is a £195 "commitment fee" levied on each loan, regardless of value (were you told about this?) and one month's interest (7%) is charged on early settlement.

 

Cancellation rights - The Borrower has the right to cancel the loan within 5 days, but ONLY if signed away from trade premises. If you go to an agent premises to sign up, you are signing away your right to cancel if you change your mind.

 

Trackers Logbook Loans DO fit trackers to vehicles securing loans over the value of £5000. They will fit 2 boxes to the car, one is a real tracker (which will be well hidden) and the other is a decoy (which will be more obvious so if the borrower wants to remove it, they will in all probability leave the real one in place)

 

HPI A marker will be placed on the HPI register, which will record the loan as a "lease". Logbook Loans will be informed if you attempt to sell or part-exchange your vehicle if the buyer carries out an HPI check. They will also be informed of the identity of the person/company carrying out the check.

 

Can I sell the car? The only way you can sell the car and keep them off your back is to ask for a settlement figure and settle the loan from the proceeds. Otherwise they will maintain an interest in the vehicle and will attempt to recover the car from the new owner

 

Logbook (V5) Holding the logbook (V5) in itself gives Logbook Loans no legal title to the vehicle. The security is in the Bill of Sale document alone. Taking the Logbook is a token of perception on the part of the customer. No contact with DVLA is made, no changes to the registered keeper details are made as you remain the registered keeper. There is no way Logbook Loans would be informed if you applied for a replacement logbook.

 

What happens if they take my car? They will charge you between £500 and £900 for "repossession charges", depending on how easily the repo agents find your car. They will also store the car for 10 days to give you the opportunity to find the money to get it back (charging you £12 per day storage) before selling the car at auction. The charges will be added to the amount you owe, then the amount realised from the sale will be deducted and you will either get a refund for any excess or a bill for the shortfall.

 

Watchdog BBC researchers have been sniffing around and I expect they will not let it drop, so take heart, they are looking into it.

 

One-Third Rule As this is not a hire-purchase agreement, but rather a personal loan secured on the vehicle by the Bill of Sale, the One-Third rule does not apply. Forget Hire-Purchase, think Pawnbroking.

 

This Forum Yes, they do monitor this forum and have been able to identify certain posters from information given in posts. Be careful.

 

To save a marathon post, I'll leave it at that for now, any questions?