CEL ANPR PCN claimform - Alexandra Retail Centre Tunstall Stoke On Trent

[rdm2006]

Hi My daughter has received a "Speculative Invoice" from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

 

I have seen somewhere about rules for the protection of freedoms act and have sent an email today to the DVLA to see when her details were requested and confirmation of who requested it.

 

Once i get this information where do we go from there?

 

The parking notice does not mention POFA at all. Are they required to mention it?

[dx100uk]

please fill this out first..

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[rdm2006]

1 Date of the infringement 05/04/17

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 03/05/17

 

3 Date received 05/05/17

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] Not Yet

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcement ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Alexandra Retail Centre Tunstall Stoke On Trent

 

they use the BPA Appeals process

[renegadeimp]

Regarding 2. That timeframe only applies for anpr. It's a lot longer for regular windscreen tickets

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I am assuming this is an ANPR ticket because if it was a windscreen ticket, the NTK is too early

 

As it is an ANPR, they are out of time so ignoring is probably the better option. To make sure, can you post up all documentation ensuring you obscure all personal details, PCN number, Reg number but leave the times and dates of 'offence' viewable

[ericsbrother]

typical CEL.

They have never really considered the law as being applicable to them,

whether that be contract law,

consumer law,

company law as far as naming those who have a controlling interest in their company, theft act etc.

 

I would wait for them to write again as the NTK is timed out and then tell them to sod off as they havent obeyed the protocols of the POFA.

 

When you find out WHEN they accessed the keeper details youi may have a claim for a breach of the DPA and a ccomplaint to the DVLA on this point wouild be worth making.

 

 

Let us know the date of their accessing the data when you have it.

 

I suspect that their next step will be a letter from Debt Recovery Plus

because CEL know they are out of luck but hope that you confuse a no-hope organisation dca with a HCEO

[dx100uk]

the NTK should have 2 photos entry and leave if its ANPR and say ANPR.

 

 

dx

[rdm2006]

yes it has 2 photos - entry and exit, cant get a copy as yet as it is at my daughters house, but will try and get it a.s.a.p. and the photo she sent me isn't that good.

[renegadeimp]

Please get that letter, redact all personal identifiers, and post it up in full.

[ericsbrother]

it is always problematical to help people via a third party, get her to sign up and introduce herself so nothing is missed out.

[rdm2006]

OK Here is the PCN, No reply from DVLA as yet

pcn.pdf

[DragonFly1967]

As it's within the time to appeal, I'd be tempted to do so. Which has the added bonus of wasting some of CEL's money!

 

Something along the lines of..

 

CEL.

 

Ref: PCN number:

Vehicle Index:

 

As the vehicle keeper, I would like to invoke your appeals procedure because your invoice was received on a Friday and I only pay invoices that are received on a Monday.

 

 

Unlucky! Please issue me with a valid POPLA code.

 

Recorded Keeper

 

 

Nothing more, nothing less. Send it as a letter (not email) and get a free certificate of posting from the post office.

 

When they do issue you a Hoopla code, you do a full appeal to Hoopla on the out of time, no keeper liability grounds. We'll be happy to guide you through that. CEL are, at that point, completely stuffed.

 

CEL already know that they're stuffed, they're just hoping that you don't

 

This is regardless of any result from the DVLA as that may form the basis of a separate complaint.

 

Can we also see the other side of that PCN/NTK please.

 

 

There is some important wording that they must include on it for it to be valid, it's not on the front, so we need to see if it's on the back. Ta

[ericsbrother]

agreee,

what you can read on the first page is nothing that complies with the POFA or the BPA CoP

no it is worthless to them as an NTK.

 

When the time comes I would question the veracity of the images as usually you get a picture or the car entering and a picture of the car leaving so front and back number plates get read.

 

This is 2 front pictures and the road markings dont tie up

so could be random pictures from anywhere rather than a paired set.

 

She should go back there and photograph the entrance herself along with the sigange visible from the public highway.

 

Also note the site and direction of the cameras and that little sign her car is passing,

note where it is in relation to the highway etc

so direction of travel can be properly determined.

 

As said, CEL are the least honest of all the parking companies.

[rdm2006]

The reverse is blank

[DragonFly1967]

Yet another CEL fail then.

 

Just get that appeal off to them in the post then, so that they can hurry up and reject it and give you your HOOPLA code

[rdm2006]

There is some important wording that they must include on it for it to be valid, it's not on the front, so we need to see if it's on the back.

 

What information is missing please as i can quote this once it gets to POPLA stage?

[ericsbrother]

it wont get you anywhere at POPLA,

they are not allowed to consider anything the BPA doesnt let them consider.

 

Better off getting her to write back to CEL with a short letter saying

 

 

"Ashley, I am not falling for your con, go screw yourself or take the matter to court at your earliest opportunity where YET AGAIN the law regarding keeper liability will be explained to you at your own expense"

 

Dont bother being nice, it wont get you anywhere

[rdm2006]

Just for curiosity then. what info is missing?

[DragonFly1967]

Just for curiosity then. what info is missing?

 

It's not just things that are missing, but other things that they've badly worded or 'hidden away' on the page as well.

 

 

The Notice which is to be relied upon to be a Notice to Keeper is compliant only if the following requirements are met.

 

Inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay the parking charge (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(b)). Whilst this information might be there, it's hidden away in the small print at the bottom and does not make it clear.

 

The notice does not state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service and states that the keeper is "required" to pay the charge rather than "inviting" the keeper to do so. (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(e))

 

It does not warn the keeper as per POFA 2012 of the consequences if the amount remains unpaid after 28 days. (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(f)). What is there doesn't meet those requirements.

 

The NTK is also confusing in as much as the notice states both that "failing to pay the amount due within 28 days" and that "you have 28 to appeal" and misleading in that "POPLA will not consider appeals that have not been sent to them (us) first". This is misleading in as much as while you do need to appeal to the PPC first (to get a POPLA code) you do not have to appeal to POPLA on the same grounds as your appeal to the PPC.

 

Although the notice does name the creditor and their registered office address, it doesn't really make this information clear. I certainly missed it the first time that I looked at the NTK. (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(h))

 

It also falls foul of the POFA in relation to (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (5)) in that it did not arrive within the relevant period (14 days from the day following the parking event), they've even printed this on the NTK themselves.

 

And finally from me, and only the DVLA would be able to confirm this, but looking at the date of issue of the NTK, I'd put money on a breach of (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 11 (1)(b)).

[rdm2006]

Had reply today from the DVLA they requested the info on the 28th April. little bit late

 

Appeal sent waiting for popla code now

[DragonFly1967]

Had reply today from the DVLA they requested the info on the 28th April. little bit late

 

Appeal sent waiting for popla code now

 

If they've got any sense, they'll just accept your appeal, no matter what you've written (yeah right!). Anything else is just going to be them throwing money down the drain.

 

But, I'd expect the usual from the PPC. They'll (try to) tell you that the NTK was issued correctly and in line with the Code of Practice for AOS members and that "after careful consideration" they have decided to reject your appeal. Anyone else smell cows?

 

 

As they had no reasonable cause to request your data from the DVLA, there's also a complaint there waiting to happen to the BPA (for breach of the AOS CoP), the DVLA (for their breach of the KADOE contract), the ICO (for the breach of the DPA against both the PPC & the DVLA) and a potential court claim for your Daughter against the PPC for the misuse of her personal data.

[ericsbrother]

OK, get a complaint in to the DVLAand the ICO about CEL abusing the KADOE contractin accessing your data when they knew that there could be no liability on your part so no lawful reason to do so.

[rdm2006]

Well Surprise, Surprise, the appeal was unsuccessful.

 

Is there a standard letter for a POPLA appeal when they didnt request the info from the DVLA within the correct time

[rdm2006]

Wonder if i should claim compensation for a data breach lol

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?478045-CEL-Data-Protection-Breach

[DragonFly1967]

There's not really a standard letter for Hoopla, it's all 'click based' now on their website, unless you want to go down the paper & stamp route? Not really necessary with Hoopla.

 

Just select the appeal reason that fits best, I keep meaning to keep a track of these, but keep on forgetting.

 

So, something along the lines of...

 

My reason for appeal is that there can be no keeper liability as the operator has completely failed to follow the protocols of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

I was not the driver at the time in question.

 

The date of the parking event was 05/04/2017

The date of issue of the NTK was 03/05/2017 (upload the NTK as part of your evidence to prove dates). Starting the clock from the day after the parking event that triggered this charge notice, this is 27 days. Well outside the 14 day limit afforded by the PoFA 2012.

 

The operator did not even request the keeper details from the DVLA until 28/04/2017 (confirmed by the DVLA themselves (upload the letter from the DVLA as part of your evidence)) which, starting the clock from the day after the parking event that triggered this charge notice is 22 days later, which proves that the PoFA 2012 has not been complied with and therefore no keeper liability can be created.

 

I therefore request that this appeal be allowed.

 

As for the breach of the Data Protection Act, if POPLA decide against you and CEL are silly enough to take court action against you, I'd definitely put in a counter claim and hit them in the pocket (again). The transcript of that CEL case in the other thread has been ordered and will be online as soon as it's received, so that'll be useful to have a copy of if they're that stupid!

 

We already know that they are that greedy, but it's whether or not they'd be happy to pay you another chunk of petty cash once you've won your counter claim