Parking Collection Services Ticket / POPLA

[no1sbusiness]

I have been advised by a friend to post my problem here as a last attempt to perhaps find a solution to it.

 

I moved into a property (flat) in February 2017.

The parking area outside these flats are monitored by 'PCL'.

A resident can apply for a parking permit (£15 fee) which resident has to display on windscreen.

 

I attended concierge on the day I moved into property and filled out the application form and paid £15 via cheque.

Receptionist said he has run out of the badges and I can collect the permit in two days.

 

I think the shift changes and in the evening I found a parking ticket on my car.

 

I wrote to the company clarifying that this had happened and I believe I have a right to park as I have paid the permit fee and submitted the form to your office. I also sent them picture of permit as i was issued permit by then.

 

They refused and asked me to go to POPLA if i would like but if i were to go to POPLA the fee will then be £100 not £60.

 

I thought POPLA would be more reasonable and wrote to them asking them to review my issue.

I sent them a picture of the notification that it does not say permit has to be displayed on windscreen so as far as i understand

(a) being a resident

(b) having paid the amount

© my details are with concierge.

I was allowed to park.

 

Details from POPLA web site are as follows;

 

Decision: Unsuccessful

 

Assessor Name: XXXX {I have removed as not sure if it goes against your policy}

 

Assessor summary of operator case:

The operator states that it issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN), because the vehicle with registration [edited], “was parked without a valid ticket/permit on clear display” on 18 February 2017.

 

Assessor summary of your case:

The appellant states he has recently moved into the property and has been allocated a parking bay which is included in his contract.

 

He says residents can park their vehicles wherever they find space.

He adds that residents are issued with a permit to display when parking.

He says he went to the concierge to request a permit,

paid the administration fee,

but the concierge had run out of permits.

 

He states he was told to return later for a permit

and that he would be okay to park as he was on record as a resident.

 

He says that on the day in question the PCN was issued for not displaying a permit.

The appellant has provided a copy of his parking permit.

 

Assessor supporting rational for decision:

The terms and conditions state:

“Authorised / permit holder vehicles only”

and that

“If these conditions are not complied with, parking charge of 100£ [sic] may be issued to the driver”.

 

The operator’s case file includes photographs of the signage at the site clearly showing these terms.

The operator has also provided photographic evidence of the vehicle with no permit on display.

 

POPLA is an evidence-based service.

We can only assess an appeal based on the evidence provided to us.

 

The appellant has said that he is allocated a parking bay as part of his lease.

However, he has not provided a copy of his lease.

 

The appellant says the concierge advised him that he would be okay to park without displaying a permit as they had run out. However, POPLA cannot consider an undocumented conversation as evidence.

 

Nevertheless, the parking contract is between the motorist and the operator through the terms on its signs, not the concierge.

 

When invited to provide comments on the operator’s case file,

the appellant noted that the signs say parking is for permit holders,

and do not state that a permit must be displayed.

 

While I agree that this is the case,

by his own admission,

he was not in possession of a permit at the time of the contravention.

 

When parking on private land it is the motorist’s responsibility to be aware of the terms and conditions of the site they are entering before deciding to park.

 

The terms are clear and the appellant, by his own admission, was not a permit holder at the time of the contravention.

Therefore, I am satisfied that he did not park in accordance with the terms and conditions at the site.

 

As such, the operator correctly issued the PCN and I must refuse this appeal.

 

For clarity, any customer service issues the appellant has regarding information provided by the concierge or it running out of permits are outside of POPLA’s remit. This would be between the appellant and the concierge.

 

I would appreciate if you can guide me if there is anything i can do or there is no other option except paying £100. It is almost half of my weekly salary and I genuinely dont see why it has gone that far.

 

Your help is very much appreciated.

Edited May 3, 2017 by honeybee13
Car reg removed

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. The forum guys should be along later with advice for you. In the meantime, I've edited out your car reg so you can't be identified by that.

 

While you're waiting, type PCS's name into the Search CAG box near the top of this screen, in the maroon strip. That should show you other cases by these people. We've had plenty of cases where people have had problems with being charged for a parking space that was theirs, but offhand I don't remember one where there was a delay in issuing the permit. Anyway, you probably don't have a problem, the guys will tell you.

 

Here's a link to the forum stikky with the commonly used abbreviations.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?168275-Posting-in-this-Forum-and-A-Z-of-Motoring-Terms

 

My best, HB

[no1sbusiness]

Thank you Honeybee13 and apologies for the mistake. I should have been more careful with copy and paste.

[gregs07]

Your lease trumps everything have a good read through. Chances are it states you are entitled to a car park space, if there is no mention of permits etc within the lease you're free and clear. Shame you never sent a copy to popla.car in your name v5 etc lease in your name, your entitled to park.

[no1sbusiness]

It only states:

19. Car Parking Space:

1. To park private vehicle(s) only at the Premises

2. To park in the space allocated to the Premises, if the tenant is allocated a car parking space.

[gregs07]

Argh. Stumbling block then. Unless you get a witness statement from concierge detailing conversation.

[DragonFly1967]

OK, so you lost at HOOPLA. You may have seen on the HOOPLA website that their decisions are NOT binding on the motorist. That's your first clue

 

It's a shame that you didn't provide a copy of the lease to HOOPLA as it doesn't state that you need to obtain a permit to park, doesn't state that you need to hold a permit to park and doesn't state that you need to display a permit to park. That is very important!

 

Whilst it does say that you need to be allocated a parking space, in law that was done as soon as your application for a permit to park was accepted and you paid the money. If there had been no space for you to park your vehicle, your application should not have been accepted

 

That position was later strengthened by the fact that you were issued a permit, even if you didn't physically have one at the time of the parking event.

 

Therefore, your lease trumps any agreement that PCS has with the Managing agent as you have (by virtue of your lease) supremacy of contract.

 

Now, for them to actually get any money out of you they will have to take you to county court, although I dare say that you're now due for the usual raft of begging letters from their pet DCA. No matter what these letters say, it is quite safe to ignore them, DCA's have absolutely no power over you.

 

You're a long way from the court stage at the moment, but there is plenty of persuasive cases as well as case law that says your lease trumps their contract, so you've got absolutely nothing to worry about here. You've already won any court case that they'd like to bring

[no1sbusiness]

DragonFly1967, bless you, your response is such a relief for me. thank you very much.

 

One last question please; I was worried that if I dont pay, they can clamp my car?

 

I read it somewhere that they can not clamp the car on public roads but can do on their private property or property managed by them.

[DragonFly1967]

If they do, feel free to cut it off and post it back to them in bite sized chunks

Clamping has been illegal since 2012

(except for the DVLA, a couple of other Government agencies and Enforcement Agents

(but you don't need to worry about those))

[DragonFly1967]

Just for clarity, I was joking (more or less) when I suggested cutting the clamp off, as that would still be (technically at least) criminal damage, even though it was put on the vehicle illegally. You would be quite entitled to remove it though, as long as you didn't damage it (easy enough with a couple of spanners).

 

Either way, the private company that clamped you (presuming that this was for a private parking charge) would be in enough hot water to re-float the Titanic! Not only would they have broken the law, they'll have also breached their Codes of Practice with their ATA (sometimes the ATA even react to one of those), the KADOE agreement with the DVLA and probably a few more things besides that I can't even think of.

 

You've got absolutely no worries as far as clamping (or other immobilisation) goes

[honeybee13]

Thank you Honeybee13 and apologies for the mistake. I should have been more careful with copy and paste.

 

No problem, you know now.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

at least POPLA recognise that the parking is for authorised/ permit holder vehicles only, even if they then talk utter bull afterwards to justify their puppetmasters demands. When you handed over your cheque you entered into a contract that allows you to act in a certain way by having that permission. The paper permit is just evidence of the contract, not the contract itself so you are not in breach of the conditions if the company have failed to give you a receipt

 

You should also have a read of the lease to see waht it says about parking and the common areas of the development. I bet that charging you £15 isnt in there anywhere so I would be demanding a refund of that.

 

An allocated space is just that, yours to use and no-one else's but it may not be part of the lease so you will have to refer to it to see if there is a physical space that is identified as going with your flat.

 

In short, you dont owe these clowns a penny, have been misled into apying £15 for nothing and have supremacy of contract over their dodgy deal with the managing agents.

Edited May 4, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[ericsbrother]

Oh and I bet their signage is so rubbish it doesnt form a contract with anyone anyway

[no1sbusiness]

Thank you, thank you and thank you guys, very much appreciate your valuable advice and comments.

[ericsbrother]

we would still like to see a picture of the signage as they are now going to send you more begging letters and it would be useful to know what ammunition you have for your fight

[no1sbusiness]

Thank you for considering to see the signage and further assistance. Attached is the signage they themselves have submitted to POPLA.

 

9570617515 - Checked 13.pdf

[ericsbrother]

it is not an offer of a contract to park, it is a rather confusing mixture of an invitation to treat and a prohibitive notice so you dont actually consider and accept an offer to park under certain conditions as there are no conditions to consider and accept.

If they employed someone who had passed a GCSE in English or law they would know this.