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    • https://www.bindmans.com/news/neale-v-dpp-the-right-to-silence-citizens-duties-and-coronavirus-regulations   Perhaps the OP should have said nothing - and risked arrest!   "Firstly, the case calls into question the logic behind aspects of the criminal justice response to the public health crisis created by the Coronavirus pandemic...   "Secondly, it is clear that some police officers have misunderstood and misstated their powers, and citizens’ obligations, under the Regulations and at common law...   "Thirdly, the case confirms reasonable excuses for being outside are not limited to those explicitly set out in the Regulations. Police officers considering whether there are reasonable grounds for believing that an offence has been committed under the Regulations so that an FPN may be issued, or the reasonable grounds for suspicion that are necessary for an arrest, should give proper consideration to any explanation given by members of the public (and what a court might think of them) rather than only recognising those exceptions explicitly listed in the Regulations and/or government guidance...   Fourthly, the case is an example of a failure of the CPS review into prosecutions brought under Coronavirus Regulations, which has found that alarming numbers of cases were wrongly charged..."   Above quotes from the Bindman's article, not the decision.  Case arose from the first lockdown and was in Wales.  Same now?  Also was about not being at home - not mask wearing.    
    • No the first LBA was delivered by royal mail, but I responded by email, sorry if I didn't make that clear.   I look at redacting the emails tomorrow, got to get some sleep now.   Thanks
    • ok well that changes things alot. you've accepted one before by email  and now they are doing it again ..   might have shot yourself in the foot until now lets get some 1st aid done.   gonna be a pain to redact but i'm gonna need to see all the emails in/out please in ONE MULTIPAGE PDF from/inc  date of their last PAPLOC   redact them properly !! read our upload guide carefully   you may  think this is immaterial, but its not, esp important is their and your exact wording
    • OK I've looked back at my emails and it appears I've been dealing with shoosmiths since the start of 2019 when they sent a LBA that I'd totally forgot about.   I replied that I didn't recognise the debt and we got into a big letter tennis over the facts.   They then went quiet and then contacted me again in April 2020 asking for income and expenditure details to work out a payment plan with them.   After I responded with my covid comments they went quiet again.   And now they are back with another LBA and I haven't responded to that.   Hope that clears it up. 
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
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Envisage Promotions ...debt advice please


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Hi,

 

I hope this is in the right section.

I was looking to hire two butlers for an event

 

 

phoned around and got a quote of £184 for two hours which I thought was okay.

The company emailed me the quote and told me to fill out a booking form which I did and then they would send me an invoice.

 

 

I got the invoice a few hours later and realised they meant £184 each so with vat the bill was over £400.

I emailed back and said sorry thats way too much please cancel.

 

Received an email this morning saying I cannot cancel without paying £100 plus vat for the considerable amount of time they have invested(?). If I dont pay in two days it will go up to £184 plus vat.

 

I have not signed an agreement and there are no terms and conditions on their website

(they did send me them after I filled in the booking form online).

 

Any advice please?

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they are talking utter cobblers unless you booked them for the same day.

 

A verbal agreement is a contract but you are protected by consumer contract law that allows you to cancel distance contracts giving 14 days notice.

 

 

so was your event within the next fortnight?

Booking form is not a contract, it is an "intitation to treat".

 

Imagine you went into a clothes shop and asked for a pair of trousers for about £100.

The assistant got a pair of nice chinos down from the shelf

you tried them on

said that you liked them, how much?

 

 

he said £200

you reminded him of your budget

his answer is

"well you tried them on and said you liked them so that is a contract to purchase"

you would think him mad and rightly so.

the same applies here.

 

 

The contract only forms when there is a "meeting of minds" as the judges quote often gets relayed in the textbooks

 

Ultimately this is a frustrated contract,

they cannot supply the people at £184 for the 2 people so you are not obliged to pay for something different.

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Thanks for the quick reply,

I thought it was not a contract but its always better to get someone with more knowledges advice.

 

 

The event is in 18 days and as soon as I realised the error I let them know.

 

 

Maybe I misheard the guy but I genuinely thought it was a total of £184 plus vat and not double that or I would not have filled in the form.

 

I will let the guy know about the initiation to treat and see if that stops him in his tracks.

 

Thanks again.

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Just had this reply:

Regretfully you appear to have misunderstood that completing a booking form is entering a contract.

 

Please see attached our agreed terms and conditions, I have also highlighted the relevant section below for your convenience.

 

6. Cancellation

6.1 Without prejudice to any other right or remedy available to it the company shall be entitled to cancel the contract or suspend

any further performance under the contract without any liability on the part of the company or the talent.

6.2 The client shall not be entitled to cancel the contract without the prior written agreement of the company.

 

I am trying to help reduce your costs, and would maintain my offer of a reduced fee if you decide to cancel.

 

If you decide to not respond as detailed in your previous email this will be handed across to our debt recovery team, at which point the full amount will be charged and you will be liable to pay additional fees implimteded by STA Debt Recovery.

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It's not entering into a contract. And they're threading you with a scary? Hahaha. Pathetic. They also can't add anything else on because there wasn't a contract and theres no terms.ans conditions to allow it.

 

Dsr overruled whatever they think they can do. Perhaps politely tell them to read it in full. Your statutory rights cannot be overruled.

 

Just like you can order bt or sky and cancel without penalty in the first couple weeks.

 

Can you name.the company please.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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When did you get the T's & C's in relation to returning the booking form?

 

Did the booking form include the price at "£184 x 2"?

 

Were you running the event as a business or a consumer? This will affect if the DSR's apply.

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When did you get the T's & C's in relation to returning the booking form?

 

Did the booking form include the price at "£184 x 2"?

 

Were you running the event as a business or a consumer? This will affect if the DSR's apply.

 

When I spoke on the phone I told them what I needed and the guy said £184 plus vat and gave me a quote reference which he also emailed me. The email had no prices but did have a t&c attachment and said to fill in the booking form online so they could raise an invoice. They then sent the invoice and I realised the price difference and told them by email that I wanted to cancel as we must have got our wires crossed regarding prices.

 

There were no prices on the booking form - it wanted to know dates, times locations etc and the nature of the event.

 

All communication was through my personal email account but I completed the booking form with my husbands business details as it was for his event.

2017 Envisage Group Terms & Conditions.pdf

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No prices on the booking form & price not being made clear before = "no certainty".

I'd say "no contract formed" as a result.

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their terms arent legal and cant be applied retrospectively even if they were.

Now, no more phone calls, no emails. You communicate by letter post only and put your email setting to bounce his messages back. The threat of using a dca tells me that he knows that there is a problem with his agreements and to futher that he makes it clear that he is acting as a middleman so cant actually speak for the others with any authority.

Ignore anything other than a court form from now on

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No more than an Invitation to Treat, certainly no contract.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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