UK PArking Enforcement Agency (Parkforce)

[PhantomReclaimer]

Mrs Phantom got a ticket in a private car park near Leeds the other day for some spurious alleged infringment of the parking rules. These muppets expect £60 off her, increasng to zillions if she doesn't pay by next week, or something.

 

Anyway, I phoned the muppets and asked what legislation permitted them to issue this ticket. "Oh, it's because we have the permission of the site owner, Sir". "Really", says I. "So, the charge is issued by way of a penalty for breach of contract?". "Yes, that's right" came the reply. Next, upon telling her that a penalty charge for a breach of contract is unlawful and therefore unenforcable, came the response I've heard so many times with my dealings with the banks. "Oh that dosen't apply to us, Sir". :D :D

 

More fun coming my way I think.

 

P.

[POCA]

Sweet. I must have missed the bit where the judges exempted parking contractors.

[tamadus]

Mrs Phantom got a ticket in a private car park near Leeds the other day for some spurious alleged infringment of the parking rules. These muppets expect £60 off her, increasng to zillions if she doesn't pay by next week, or something.

 

Anyway, I phoned the muppets and asked what legislation permitted them to issue this ticket. "Oh, it's because we have the permission of the site owner, Sir". "Really", says I. "So, the charge is issued by way of a penalty for breach of contract?". "Yes, that's right" came the reply. Next, upon telling her that a penalty charge for a breach of contract is unlawful and therefore unenforcable, came the response I've heard so many times with my dealings with the banks. "Oh that dosen't apply to us, Sir". :D :D

 

More fun coming my way I think.

 

P.

LMAO methinks picking on Mrs Phantom was a serious error on their behalf

[PhantomReclaimer]

Well, some letters just about finished to go to, Parkforce - telling them what I think of their unlawful charge; DVLA - saying that I don't consider releasing information to enable someone to pursue an unlawful charge to be reasonable; Trading Standards in Leeds - telling them what I think of these sharks.

 

P.

[Parkforce]

Wilsea Services Ltd T/a The UK Parking Enforcement Agency.

 

The Parkforce system has been operating in the UK for 5 years now.

 

Parkforce offer a service to private land owners to deter and eradicate unwanted cars parking on their land by way of issuing parking charge tickets.

 

When the company was formed, we worked closely with North Yorkshire Trading Standards and The North Yorkshire Police and developed with them a code of conduct thus ensuring ethical business practices.

 

The Directors of the company now sit on a “special interest group” board at The British Parking Association and are currently working with them to establish a national, government recognized code of conduct.

 

The company now services over 800 uk car parks including Universities, Hospitals, Councils etc and are pioneers with regards to cleaning up the parking management industry so only reputable companies can operate within it.

 

With regards to the enforcement of issued parking charges, if the company was unable to enforce it simply would not still be in business.

 

Should you wish to query the validity of the company or any of the above comments, please feel free to contact the British Parking Association http://www.britishparking.co.uk/ . Our registration number is 30215, or North Yorkshire Trading Standards based in Northallerton. Mrs Jan Gillet was the trading standards officer we worked closely with.

 

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me on [email protected]

[PhantomReclaimer]

Wilsea Services Ltd T/a The UK Parking Enforcement Agency.

 

The Parkforce system has been operating in the UK for 5 years now.

 

Parkforce offer a service to private land owners to deter and eradicate unwanted cars parking on their land by way of issuing parking charge tickets.

 

When the company was formed, we worked closely with North Yorkshire Trading Standards and The North Yorkshire Police and developed with them a code of conduct thus ensuring ethical business practices.

 

The Directors of the company now sit on a “special interest group” board at The British Parking Association and are currently working with them to establish a national, government recognized code of conduct.

 

The company now services over 800 uk car parks including Universities, Hospitals, Councils etc and are pioneers with regards to cleaning up the parking management industry so only reputable companies can operate within it.

 

With regards to the enforcement of issued parking charges, if the company was unable to enforce it simply would not still be in business.

 

Should you wish to query the validity of the company or any of the above comments, please feel free to contact the British Parking Association http://www.britishparking.co.uk/ . Our registration number is 30215, or North Yorkshire Trading Standards based in Northallerton. Mrs Jan Gillet was the trading standards officer we worked closely with.

 

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me on [email protected]

 

Wow, a response from an actual company - better show than the banks, I must admit.

 

You said; "With regards to the enforcement of issued parking charges, if the company was unable to enforce it simply would not still be in business."

 

On that I beg to differ. Just because you are collecting it dosen't make it enforcable. We all know that the vast majority of people who recieve an official looking ticket on their windscreen will simply pay it in the belief that it is lawfully demanded money.

 

I rang up your offices to ask what legislation allowed you to make the charge and was informed that the car park in question was a private one and that the charge was levied for a breach of contract. If this is the case then it's clearly a penalty charge (it even says it is on the ticket) and is therefore unenforcable at law.

 

May I ask how many of your tickets have been challenged as unlawful penalties in the Courts? Also, how many tickets have you pursued in the Courts for payment?

 

I will make a prediction now that the ticket issued to my other half will never be the subject of recovery proceedings at Court because you know you cannot win. You may get a debt recovery company to try and intimidate it out of her but, ultimately, it will never see the inside of a Court.

 

 

P.

[demon_x_slash]

Aren't people like 'Parkforce' (pah) meant to ask permission of the mods before they can join? I'd consider them posting on here to be similar to a bailiff or a bank manager posting...

[demon_x_slash]

From the website(!):

 

Q. How can you legally issue parking charge tickets?

A. Our system is based on contract law. By the motorist entering the land and seeing the contractual warning signs displaying the terms and conditions for parking, they enter into a contract regarding the parking regulations. Should they choose to ignore the terms and conditions of parking, they are breaking the contract. This is enforceable in the civil courts.

Q. Do I need a license from the SIA (Security Industry Authority) to operate this system?

A. No. As the Parkforce system does not involve the immobilisation of a motor vehicle, a license is not required.

Refunds.

Q. I am not happy with the service. How do I obtain a refund?

A. Refunds are at the discretion of the management.

 

I'll bet they are...

[PhantomReclaimer]

Q. How can you legally issue parking charge tickets?

A. Our system is based on contract law. By the motorist entering the land and seeing the contractual warning signs displaying the terms and conditions for parking, they enter into a contract regarding the parking regulations. Should they choose to ignore the terms and conditions of parking, they are breaking the contract. This is enforceable in the civil courts.

 

Well, of course it is, as long as it meets the requirements that constitute a valid simple contract; Offer, acceptance, consideration and an intention to create legal relations - and that none of the terms are invalid at law.

 

Any term that purports to allow one party to a contract to levy a charge by way of a penalty for breach of contract, however, is void and is totally unenforcable. The clause simply does not exist

 

The contract, if valid and binding on the parties, is perfectly enforcable and Parkforce are perfectly entitled to attempt to collect any loss which their client has sustained by bringing an action for damages for breach.

 

Q. I am not happy with the service. How do I obtain a refund?

A. Refunds are at the discretion of the management.

 

I'll bet they are...

 

Thats what the banks think too....the Courts will take a rather different view, however!

 

P.

[Seminole]

Aren't people like 'Parkforce' (pah) meant to ask permission of the mods before they can join? I'd consider them posting on here to be similar to a bailiff or a bank manager posting...

 

That's for Admin to deal with but I can't help wondering if Johns has any bank charges he might want help in reclaiming.

[blueskies]

I think that, if a company wants to engage with us on these forums then they are welcome to. The banks have, so far, declined to do so. I applaud Parkforce for having the courage to post on here and hope that, by doing so, they can settle any outstanding issues with their 'customers'.

 

I think it can only advance CAG by allowing the views of the 'other side' to be conveyed accurately and allow for mediation.

[livelylad]

That's for Admin to deal with but I can't help wondering if Johns has any bank charges he might want help in reclaiming.

 

 

Nice one

[tamadus]

I seem to recall this is the company that makes lots of money from the sick and their families by administering parking charges at hospitals.

 

I had the misfortune to need treatment at my local hospital on 2 occasions recently, the second was in A&E and I got out of there at just before midnight, Had I been any longer the ticket would have expired (all tickets expire at midnight) and I would have got their penalty ticket for no reason of my own, having already paid the daily fee and only using it for about 4 hours.

 

Hands up everyone who thinks I would have paid it ?

 

While i was there it came up in conversation with one of the nurses who is furious that not only do they never see any of the money raised but the staff themselves are about to be charged the parking fee.

 

So we have a company getting rich off the backs of the sick and infirm and now they take more from the doctors and nurses who care for them.

 

This is one company that should hang it's head in shame at the way they make a profit.

[sequenci]

phantom.

 

i'm sat at work at 8.40 on a friday night.

 

your post has cheered me up to say the least!

[livelylad]

Parkforce you appear to have gone all quiet, or are you out issuing tickets at hospitals?

[StudentInDebt]

So we have a company getting rich off the backs of the sick and infirm and now they take more from the doctors and nurses who care for them.

 

This is one company that should hang it's head in shame at the way they make a profit.

 

I think this is a touch unfair. Would you say the same of Bayer for charging a fortune for MRI scanners, centrifuges and other lab equipment? Or of Glaxo-Smithkline for the outrageous cost of drugs? Or Balfour Beatty for the scandalous PFI charges you will have to pay out of your taxes for the next 50 years? Face it, the NHS is a giant money making machine for all the companies supplying it, being a parking contractor is no different - you are simply being directly taxed for parking at your hospital rather than having the government take it off you and give it to the NHS's suppliers.

 

That the nurses and doctors working in the NHS are poorly paid is not the fault of the parking contractor, neither is the desire of a hospital to introduce parking charges for hospital staff - most PCTs (or whoever runs hospitals now) are strapped for cash and see such perks as free parking as fair game. There may also be government targets for public bodies to increase the use of public transport amongst staff, removing free parking is just one tactic to use in getting staff onto buses and bicycles (even if no suitable bus routes exist and the staff are 24/7 hour shift workers).

 

Welcome to the 21st century NHS.

[PhantomReclaimer]

I think this is a touch unfair. Would you say the same of Bayer for charging a fortune for MRI scanners, centrifuges and other lab equipment? Or of Glaxo-Smithkline for the outrageous cost of drugs? Or Balfour Beatty for the scandalous PFI charges you will have to pay out of your taxes for the next 50 years? Face it, the NHS is a giant money making machine for all the companies supplying it, being a parking contractor is no different - you are simply being directly taxed for parking at your hospital rather than having the government take it off you and give it to the NHS's suppliers.

 

That the nurses and doctors working in the NHS are poorly paid is not the fault of the parking contractor, neither is the desire of a hospital to introduce parking charges for hospital staff - most PCTs (or whoever runs hospitals now) are strapped for cash and see such perks as free parking as fair game. There may also be government targets for public bodies to increase the use of public transport amongst staff, removing free parking is just one tactic to use in getting staff onto buses and bicycles (even if no suitable bus routes exist and the staff are 24/7 hour shift workers).

 

Welcome to the 21st century NHS.

 

I have no problem with people having to pay to park at hospitals or anywhere else. However, it's entirely reasonable that it's enforced lawfully and not by way of handing out unenforcible penalty charges which many will pay because they think they must.

 

Having said that though, I do think that hospitals are a slightly different case to other places. It's very unfair to penalise people who are overstaying in a car park because they are visiting a relative who is desperately ill or has just been rushed there because of an accident.

 

P.

[Bailiffchaser]

My local nhs hospital charges for 1 hours parking. If you are leaving afetr an hour for any reason(illness etc,late appointment) then they will give you a slip to give to security who will issue you with a 1 hour token . Hence not being fined.

[livelylad]

Well in my opinion charging people to park at a hospital is a disgrace. If people have to visit a hospital to see a sick relative the last thing they want is to worry about a parking charge. There are many scenarios what if your relative is dying would you say hang on i have to run and put a pound in a machine! The system of charging for parking at a hospital is flawed a system of tickets that can be stamped at reception would work better. I thought the NHS was free at the point of service?

[Parkforce]

Regarding parking control services at Hospitals.

 

Should a Hospital choose to introduce charges for parking, then that is their prerogative and the decision to do this is nothing to do with Parkforce. Whether any of the revenue generated from pay and display parking charges is put back into the NHS Trusts is also their decision. However, Parkforce does pay each Trust a sum for every paid parking charge ticket issued on their site.

 

Parkforce is employed by various NHS Trust across the country, predominantly to ensure that Hospitals access roads are kept clear so traffic can flow without hindrance. Before our services were employed at one hospital in particular, ambulances could not reach the A and E department due to cars parked on the double yellows leading to it, and the helicopter some times could not land on the heli pad due to cars parked on this.

 

Our services have also eliminated those non-disable drivers who park in disabled bays.

 

Surely this is a good thing for all concerned? Imagine if it were your loved one who needed urgent medical attention, yet the emergency service vehicle could not get through the site due to cars parking in places they should not.

 

Please remember, it is the Hospitals and not Parkforce that decide their traffic and parking policies. All we do is offer a service to the Trust in order to encourage motorist to adhere to the Trust’s chosen policies. Should motorists never park on double yellow lines, grass verges or always obtain a pay and display ticket then the Parkforce system would not be required.

 

Our system also gives the motorist 14 days to to appeal against any parking charge issued to them. I can assure you that every appeal is perused and looked into thoroughly. We always check, where necessary with the Hospital, the validity of appeal claims and then decide to uphold or reject an appeal adoringly. For example, if you receive a parking ticket because your vehicle was parked where is should not be, but you were rushing a person into the A and E department for immediate emergency treatment, then your appeal would be undoubtedly up held. As it would if you were at the bed side of a dying loved one. Even we would not expect you to keep running to a ticket machine to “top up”. Your appeal however, would not be up held should you have parked on double yellow lines and your excuse was “there was no where else to park”. On Hospital sites in particular, we uphold a high amount of appeals.

 

I appreciate that the type of business I have is always going to be in the firing line of the majority, especially on forums such as this, however, the services we offer have helped hundreds of clients reclaim their parking areas from unwanted and unauthorized vehicles parking on them.

[PhantomReclaimer]

 

I appreciate that the type of business I have is always going to be in the firing line of the majority, especially on forums such as this, however, the services we offer have helped hundreds of clients reclaim their parking areas from unwanted and unauthorized vehicles parking on them.

 

I don't think your business is in the firing line simply because of what it is. I have no problem with private individuals and comanies conmtroling parking on their land. Especially hospitals. Most, I am sure, would agree.

 

However, I have a big problem with companies like you who are issuing tickets that purport to allow them to collect exorbitant amounts of money for breach of a pretty minor little contract. Your claim that your charges are enforcible when clearly they are not is abhorrent, as is the way in which this "charge" is presented to the motorist. The vast majority of people will believe your charge to be something they must pay as a matter of law and will simply stump up.

 

To ask the questions again that you avoided before. On how many occasions have you pursued your tickets through the Courts for payment and, if you have, how many times has the motorist defended themselves on the ground that the penalty is unenforcible?

 

I wonder how many car park owners will continue to use your "system" if it is pointed out them that the charge you make is entirely unenforcible and, as the parking contract is made between the land owner and the motorist (not Parkforce), start to realise that any penalties that people may try to claim back will be reclaimable against them, not you?

 

Our system also gives the motorist 14 days to to appeal against any parking charge issued to them. I can assure you that every appeal is perused and looked into thoroughly. We always check, where necessary with the Hospital, the validity of appeal claims and then decide to uphold or reject an appeal adoringly.

Even if your charge were enforcible then how do you justify an "appeals" system which is not independant?

 

P.

[BELLA 47]

Hi, I am a radiographer who has to pay for parking at the hospital I work at ( it's less than visitors and patients and is taken from our salaries monthly).Recently the hospital turned the car park over to County Parking which is a private company who patrol the car park giving out penalties to staff and patients alike. Today, I mistakenly parked in a restricted area and got a parking ticket. I didn't see that it was resricted because the yellow poles that had been erected were not visible to me.As I entered the car parking area the free space I saw was on my left.The yellow pole must have been flat on the ground so I didn't see it through my passeger window as I looked across. the parked cars either side of the space were hiding their parking poles beneath the bodies of the cars.The restricted area has been newly constructed, we were always able to park there before and no-one had informed us otherwise.Also there are no notices to warn of the new parking arragements.I really don't want to pay this fine, I feel so angry. Please can any one tell me how i stand legally? Iam willing to fight to the bitter end if necessary.

 

Bella

[tamadus]

I think this is a touch unfair. Would you say the same of Bayer for charging a fortune for MRI scanners, centrifuges and other lab equipment? Or of Glaxo-Smithkline for the outrageous cost of drugs? Or Balfour Beatty for the scandalous PFI charges you will have to pay out of your taxes for the next 50 years? Face it, the NHS is a giant money making machine for all the companies supplying it, being a parking contractor is no different - you are simply being directly taxed for parking at your hospital rather than having the government take it off you and give it to the NHS's suppliers.

 

That the nurses and doctors working in the NHS are poorly paid is not the fault of the parking contractor, neither is the desire of a hospital to introduce parking charges for hospital staff - most PCTs (or whoever runs hospitals now) are strapped for cash and see such perks as free parking as fair game. There may also be government targets for public bodies to increase the use of public transport amongst staff, removing free parking is just one tactic to use in getting staff onto buses and bicycles (even if no suitable bus routes exist and the staff are 24/7 hour shift workers).

 

Welcome to the 21st century NHS.

 

Bayer and the drug companies spend a fortune on development of either drugs or medical equipment, even though their prices are high, they have some enormous research costs to recover. At the end of the day those drugs and equipment are in the forefront and cutting edge of patient care and I will even go as far as to say saving lives. I don't agree with some of their prices but if the product eases suffering and saves lives then it's worth it.

 

Companies like Parkforce are contributing virtually nothing to patient care. The amount they donate to the hospital trust (at least in my area) is peanuts compared to the amount they raise.

 

I also refuse to pay for car parking at my local Town Centre and have not put a foot inside it since charges were introduced. I see no reason I should pay to spend my own money and I see no reason I should pay for the privilage of needing to use or visit a hospital.

[StudentInDebt]

Companies like Parkforce are contributing virtually nothing to patient care.

 

Except for providing a means for a hospital to offload the cost of running and enforcing a car parking system thereby increasing the amount of money available for patient care, for starters one parking attendent is at least the equivilent of a nurse in salary terms. Now the external company has to generate revenue from this car park somehow (or they will be shortlived) and charging for parking is the only way I can think of. The sensible ones will use barriers and walk-and-pay machines.

 

Whether NHS hospital car parking is run by the hospitals themselves or by an external company there is still a need to regulate the parking in some way as you have a finite number of parking spaces and a larger number of people wanting to use them coupled with areas which must be kept clear to allow ambulance and staff access. In my opinion, in the case of hospitals the use of penalty charges to prevent abuse of the parking system should be allowed.

 

I really don't want to pay this fine, I feel so angry. Please can any one tell me how i stand legally? Iam willing to fight to the bitter end if necessary

I would seek advice from your union rep on this one. As a staff member failure to pay the penalty charge could result in your parking priviliges being withdrawn.

 

I also refuse to pay for car parking at my local Town Centre and have not put a foot inside it since charges were introduced. I see no reason I should pay to spend my own money and I see no reason I should pay for the privilage of needing to use or visit a hospital.

 

One more space for me then

[tamadus]

Except for providing a means for a hospital to offload the cost of running and enforcing a car parking system thereby increasing the amount of money available for patient care, for starters one parking attendent is at least the equivilent of a nurse in salary terms. Now the external company has to generate revenue from this car park somehow (or they will be shortlived) and charging for parking is the only way I can think of. The sensible ones will use barriers and walk-and-pay machines.

 

Whether NHS hospital car parking is run by the hospitals themselves or by an external company there is still a need to regulate the parking in some way as you have a finite number of parking spaces and a larger number of people wanting to use them coupled with areas which must be kept clear to allow ambulance and staff access. In my opinion, in the case of hospitals the use of penalty charges to prevent abuse of the parking system should be allowed.

 

 

I would seek advice from your union rep on this one. As a staff member failure to pay the penalty charge could result in your parking priviliges being withdrawn.

 

 

 

One more space for me then

 

Very strange but my local hospital had no problems with car parking until the charges were introduced. I guess reducing parking spaces by putting their attendants office and pay machines in what used ot be parking spaces made a big difference.

 

If your happy being charged to go shopping that's your prerogative, but I will say that even Big natrional stores have pulled out of our local town centre because they have lost trade since the charges were introduced to out of town rivals.

 

Please don't insult the nursing staff by equating a parking attendant to them

 

Car parking charges are nothing but yet another way of penalising the motorist for going about their daily work and business.