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The "Claim Too vague" defence and guide to amending a claim

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Standard fob off letters. They had no intention of making a settlement, or responding positively.

Just ignore them and proceed with your actions.


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...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Could Any One Please Tell Me If When Making An Amendment To Your Claim If You Can Amend More Than One Part Of Your Claim As I Am Currently Ammending My Poc But I Have Noticed That On My Claim With Mcol And My Schedule Of Charges That There Is A £14 Difference Dont Know How This Has Happened But Only Just Noticed It. Also Could Someone Please Tell Me How You Work Out The Daily Interest Rate Again As I Have Read It Somewhere But I Am Sure I Have Worked This Out Wrong And Also Do You Put This On Top Of Your Claim Or Just The 8% Sorry To Be A Pain Just Feel Deflated At The Moment Feel I Am Doing Everything Wrong Just Need Some Guidance Thankyou

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All The Above Sorted ... Thankyou.. Just Waiting For Lloyds To Defend ... The 28 Days Are Up On The 18th Of May As It Was Served On The 22nd Of April...

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I am having to amend because the account no was wrong on a document I sent in (don't ask!)- how should I word that at point 2 on the N244 - all other details on the POC etc are correct - (thanks to Tanz who has aloshelped with this matter)

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Can anyone give me some advice, please?

 

I've had the "fob-off Defence" sent through but the letter that came with it from the court has had the "and note that the allocation questionnaire should be returned to the Cambridge County Court" bit crossed out and on the transfer letter (from Northampton --> Cambridge) it says

 

1. The filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.

 

Does that mean I essentially ignore the letter and see what happens?

 

I've followed the steps over on MoneyClaimExpert and all the letters have been templates of the ones there, but am not sure if I now write another letter with the paragraph on top of this thread, or what happens now....?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

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Can anyone give me some advice, please?

 

I've had the "fob-off Defence" sent through but the letter that came with it from the court has had the "and note that the allocation questionnaire should be returned to the Cambridge County Court" bit crossed out and on the transfer letter (from Northampton --> Cambridge) it says

 

1. The filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.

 

Does that mean I essentially ignore the letter and see what happens?

 

I've followed the steps over on MoneyClaimExpert and all the letters have been templates of the ones there, but am not sure if I now write another letter with the paragraph on top of this thread, or what happens now....?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi

Have a read of this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80091-your-court-dispensing-allocation.html?highlight=dispensed+AQ

 

If you can start up your own thread, then you can ask any questions on there.

Good luck!

Barty:)


I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Hi

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a link on this site for working out the schedule of charges? im amending im claim to include interest which i had previously opted not to claim and sending it with my draft order ahead of my hearing date.

 

thanks

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i have found this dont worry!!

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RE: lloyds defence!!!! i have really messed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i sent usual letters to lloyds got 1 back stating t&c, ignored second, tryed offer letter and gave them 14 days to respond and put if have not heard from them by 30th April will commence court proceeding imm. Did not hear so went moneyclaim online route, paid £120 fee for court costs etc. it was served on them on the 5th May. I received a letter from lloyds dated 1st May but franked on the 5th May, stating they would pay me £750 for full & final settlement as a good will gesture, stating they have not done anything wrong, i tried to call but only got machine that i could not leave a message on as the mailbox was full (wonder why), customer services would not help as there was special team to deal with bank charges. When i checked my bank they had already put £750 goodwill gesture in without talking to me or me excepting this! i just checked my claim online and they have put in a defence, can anyone tell me do i need to inform court? i also never put account number on poc and only put

"bank charges, this is based on the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations as i believe these default charges are unfair and not proportionate to there costs" have i totally messed up, can anyone advise what to do?, should i wait to hear from the court. At the moment i have received nothing, moneyclaim says it is being transferred to my local court. I no i am stupid and i did not read all info. before going ahead with my claim!!!!!!, any help would really be gratefully received!

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RE: lloyds defence!!!! i have really messed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i sent usual letters to lloyds got 1 back stating t&c, ignored second, tryed offer letter and gave them 14 days to respond and put if have not heard from them by 30th April will commence court proceeding imm. Did not hear so went moneyclaim online route, paid £120 fee for court costs etc. it was served on them on the 5th May. I received a letter from lloyds dated 1st May but franked on the 5th May, stating they would pay me £750 for full & final settlement as a good will gesture, stating they have not done anything wrong, i tried to call but only got machine that i could not leave a message on as the mailbox was full (wonder why), customer services would not help as there was special team to deal with bank charges. When i checked my bank they had already put £750 goodwill gesture in without talking to me or me excepting this! i just checked my claim online and they have put in a defence, can anyone tell me do i need to inform court? i also never put account number on poc and only put

"bank charges, this is based on the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations as i believe these default charges are unfair and not proportionate to there costs" have i totally messed up, can anyone advise what to do?, should i wait to hear from the court. At the moment i have received nothing, moneyclaim says it is being transferred to my local court. I no i am stupid and i did not read all info. before going ahead with my claim!!!!!!, any help would really be gratefully received!

 

Call the court and ask them how you go about amending your claim.

Then come back to this site and read the step by step guide and FAQ's.

Once you know what needs to be changed, post it on this site and others will help you,

Best regards


---------------------------

ARE YOU A BUSINESS CLAIMANT?

CAG NOW HAVE A BUSINESS CLAIMS FORUM !

GO HERE !

 

CAN'T FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR?

Look here.

Got your old T&C's ?

Visit this thread to help others.

 

-----------------------------

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Littlep V Lloyds (claiming on behalf of my wife)

Claim Amount £320 (not inc interest or court fee)

I used the Money Saving Expert website for letter templates and I am not sure if this was the best route.

1st Letter sent 28th Feb detailing the unfair bank charges – did not get a response.

2nd letter - LBA sent 15th Mar with schedule of charges showing date and amount - received standard letter from Lloyds saying ‘No’ to refund.

Filled in Claim form on MCOL – I used Money Saving Expert for guidance filling in the form and I’m worried I’ve messed up.

This is what I put;

  • Between 08/09/03 and 7/05/05 the defendant debited numerous charges from the Claimants account.

  • The charges are an unfair penalty under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, because they are a disproportionately high sum in compensation compared to the cost of the purported breach.

  • Under the law of penalties, the charges are an unlawful ‘extravagant’ penalty.

  • Under the County Courts Act, the claimant is entitled to interest of 8% per annum from the date they were deprived of the money. This totals £63.13 accruing at the daily rate of 0.021% until judgment or payment.

  • The Claimant asks the court to enter judgment in their favour for £320 plus interest, totalling £383.13.

Court fee has been added so its £433.13.

Issue date 02/04/07.

I noticed a mistake a few weeks back but was told not to worry too much, I had put the wrong date 7/5/05 instead of 7/1/05.

Since then we’ve had a letter saying Lloyds are defending claim.

And last Wednesday 9th May we had a letter – Transfer of court proceedings to Cambridge County Court – AQ is dispensed with etc.

We’re currently sitting and waiting to see what happens next.

Should I have sent anything else to MCOL or Cambridge County Court? I got a horrible feeling my claim will be thrown out because it’s too vague as I have not put my wife’s account number in the claim and have not added a schedule of charges. But I did send Lloyds details of charges and wife’s account details in the letters before action. Should I be worried? (I worry too much, I know, and I should have mentioned all this earlier!)

 

p

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Littlep V Lloyds (claiming on behalf of my wife)

Claim Amount £320 (not inc interest or court fee)

 

I used the Money Saving Expert website for letter templates and I am not sure if this was the best route.

 

1st Letter sent 28th Feb detailing the unfair bank charges – did not get a response.

 

2nd letter - LBA sent 15th Mar with schedule of charges showing date and amount - received standard letter from Lloyds saying ‘No’ to refund.

 

Filled in Claim form on MCOL – I used Money Saving Expert for guidance filling in the form and I’m worried I’ve messed up.

 

This is what I put;

 

  • Between 08/09/03 and 7/05/05 the defendant debited numerous charges from the Claimants account.

  • The charges are an unfair penalty under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, because they are a disproportionately high sum in compensation compared to the cost of the purported breach.

  • Under the law of penalties, the charges are an unlawful ‘extravagant’ penalty.

  • Under the County Courts Act, the claimant is entitled to interest of 8% per annum from the date they were deprived of the money. This totals £63.13 accruing at the daily rate of 0.021% until judgment or payment.

  • The Claimant asks the court to enter judgment in their favour for £320 plus interest, totalling £383.13.

Court fee has been added so its £433.13.

Issue date 02/04/07.

 

I noticed a mistake a few weeks back but was told not to worry too much, I had put the wrong date 7/5/05 instead of 7/1/05.

 

Since then we’ve had a letter saying Lloyds are defending claim.

 

And last Wednesday 9th May we had a letter – Transfer of court proceedings to Cambridge County Court – AQ is dispensed with etc.

 

We’re currently sitting and waiting to see what happens next.

 

Should I have sent anything else to MCOL or Cambridge County Court? I got a horrible feeling my claim will be thrown out because it’s too vague as I have not put my wife’s account number in the claim and have not added a schedule of charges. But I did send Lloyds details of charges and wife’s account details in the letters before action. Should I be worried? (I worry too much, I know, and I should have mentioned all this earlier!)

 

p

 

Call Cambridge court (or better still visit if poss), quote your case number, and ask if you can submit an amendment.

Submit your schedule of charges, and make sure that the case reference has your account details etc.

Have read around this site, and see if there is anything else you feel you should add also to your particulars of claim.

Best regards


---------------------------

ARE YOU A BUSINESS CLAIMANT?

CAG NOW HAVE A BUSINESS CLAIMS FORUM !

GO HERE !

 

CAN'T FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR?

Look here.

Got your old T&C's ?

Visit this thread to help others.

 

-----------------------------

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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This is all very scary especially as I seem to have made a right royal pigs ear of my POC. I received a 6 page defence from NatWest yesterday and it appears, quite rightly I must add, that I incorrectly submitted my POC; must have been thinking about the money...

 

Called the court and already downloaded the N244 and thanks to this thread I have clarity in properly submitting it. Just wanted advice on Section C. Is this appropriate:

 

I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my particulars of claim. Unaware of the proper procedure I incorrectly submitted insufficient and improperly compiled information on my original Particulars of Claim.

 

I would also like to note that the Defendent has asked the court in their defence; Section 3- "On allocation the Defendent invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference in order to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the claimant the opportunity to properly particularise the claim."

 

I would submit that I have now revised my original claim and taken sufficient opportunity to properly particularise the claim as evidenced in the attached new Particulars of Claim.

 

I would hope therefore that my claim can proceed as normal.

 

---

 

I also messed things up by putting my POC statement in the brief details of claim section ( I know DUMB!). Do I need to add anything to the 'because' statement such as:

 

'the claimant did not adequately particularise his claim in that he did not specify the common law and statutory provisions upon which the claim relies and incorrectly completed the original claims form.'

 

TIA


  • Barclaycard (2 Accounts) CCA sent to both on 20.5.07 (defaulted)
  • MBNA CCA defaulted 14.6.07 (Claim £2600)
  • Capital one: Reject offer LBA 18.6.07
  • HSBC/Metropolitan/DG Solicitors: Credit agreement not found by DG Solicitors. Sent new CCA to Metropolitan 18.6.07 with original timeline 18th May 2007.

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My court did not ask for anything specific other than any documents to be sent which I want used at the hearing.

 

I submitted a bundle but not a witness statement. Did I need to do this as well, I have one day left to do it!

 

Jomish.

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My court did not ask for anything specific other than any documents to be sent which I want used at the hearing.

 

I submitted a bundle but not a witness statement. Did I need to do this as well, I have one day left to do it!

 

Jomish.

 

PM one of the Mods or site helpers.


---------------------------

ARE YOU A BUSINESS CLAIMANT?

CAG NOW HAVE A BUSINESS CLAIMS FORUM !

GO HERE !

 

CAN'T FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR?

Look here.

Got your old T&C's ?

Visit this thread to help others.

 

-----------------------------

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Below are the Particulars of Claim that i did with MCOL, would someone tell me if i've completed it wrongly? as i didn't put in anything regards Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations? as i had already stated these in my initial letters detailing the list of charges sent to HSBC, but i did state the HSBC ref on the MCOL Particualars.

 

Also i didn't send the detailed charges list with the claim and their initial 14 days is up on monday 21st.

 

have i messed this one up?

 

 

"Repayment of unlawful bank charges for 6

years.

Acc. No. xxxxxxxx, S.C. xxxxxxx.

HSBC Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Amount inc. interest 1165.34

The claimant claims interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate

of 8% a year from the date when the money

became was taken from the claiments account

to the date of the claiments initial letter

requesting repayment of unlawfull charges,

total amount of £1165.34 inc. intrest and

also interest at the same rate up to the

date of judgment."

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This is all very scary especially as I seem to have made a right royal pigs ear of my POC. I received a 6 page defence from NatWest yesterday and it appears, quite rightly I must add, that I incorrectly submitted my POC; must have been thinking about the money...

 

Called the court and already downloaded the N244 and thanks to this thread I have clarity in properly submitting it. Just wanted advice on Section C. Is this appropriate:

 

I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my particulars of claim. Unaware of the proper procedure I incorrectly submitted insufficient and improperly compiled information on my original Particulars of Claim.

 

I would also like to note that the Defendent has asked the court in their defence; Section 3- "On allocation the Defendent invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference in order to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the claimant the opportunity to properly particularise the claim."

 

I would submit that I have now revised my original claim and taken sufficient opportunity to properly particularise the claim as evidenced in the attached new Particulars of Claim.

 

I would hope therefore that my claim can proceed as normal.

 

---

 

I also messed things up by putting my POC statement in the brief details of claim section ( I know DUMB!). Do I need to add anything to the 'because' statement such as:

 

'the claimant did not adequately particularise his claim in that he did not specify the common law and statutory provisions upon which the claim relies and incorrectly completed the original claims form.'

 

TIA

Yes thats fine. spot on in fact.

My court did not ask for anything specific other than any documents to be sent which I want used at the hearing.

 

I submitted a bundle but not a witness statement. Did I need to do this as well, I have one day left to do it!

 

Jomish.

Yes, use the witness statement from the "Got a court date?...." thread in the stickies.

Below are the Particulars of Claim that i did with MCOL, would someone tell me if i've completed it wrongly? as i didn't put in anything regards Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations? as i had already stated these in my initial letters detailing the list of charges sent to HSBC, but i did state the HSBC ref on the MCOL Particualars.

 

Also i didn't send the detailed charges list with the claim and their initial 14 days is up on monday 21st.

 

have i messed this one up?

 

 

"Repayment of unlawful bank charges for 6

years.

Acc. No. xxxxxxxx, S.C. xxxxxxx.

HSBC Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Amount inc. interest 1165.34

The claimant claims interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate

of 8% a year from the date when the money

became was taken from the claiments account

to the date of the claiments initial letter

requesting repayment of unlawfull charges,

total amount of £1165.34 inc. intrest and

also interest at the same rate up to the

date of judgment."

You'll need an amendment. Wait untill the bank file a defence and submit an N244 to the court of transfer. Read post #1 of this thread again though before you do.

  • Haha 1

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi,

 

I have only just come accross this forum and have already submitted my claim online.

 

In the particulars I just put this~

Reclaim of unfair bank charges and penalties imposed on my account between xxx and xxx.

I believe these charges are unlawful at common law as they are no representative of the costs incurred.

The claimant claims interestunder section blah blah blah.

 

Now having read this I see that this is not acceptable.

 

I am waiting for Lloyds to acknowledge the claim (their 14 days is up on Sunday but I know they'll acknowledge at the last minute!) so what do I do now? Do I just wait and put more detail into the particulars as and when I am preparing my court bundle or do I have to do this ammendment thing?

 

I thought it was just a brief outline of what the claim was about.

 

Thanks

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It is, but you've also got to state in legal terms exactly why the charges are unlawful - not just that they are. You need to state concisely the facts of your claim including account number and date you entered into the contract, and the legal principles and statutory provisions upon which you rely.

 

Wait until you receive a defence. It'll almost certainly be the "embarassing, too vague...." one. If so, then file an amendment following the guide in post #1.

 

If you get stuck just shout.


Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Thanks for yoour reply.

 

Once they have submitted their defence I will make an ammedment to my particulars of claim.

 

Another question if you dont mind, if on in the very slim chance that they dont acknowledge or submit defence by Sunday which is the deadline and I apply for judgement by default would the case be dismissed due to my poor particulars?

 

I have just read on here that I should have sent a scedule of charges to Northampton County Court after filing online. I knew nothing about this. Is it worth sending a covering letter giving more details and a scedule of charges and interest by 1st class post to the court today just incase I do go for Judgement by default or is it too late?

 

Also another stupid question but what EXACTLY is a schedule of charges? I have a list that Ive printed from Excel which is along the lines of

 

27/07/2002 - Overdraft excess fee - £30

27/08/2002 - returned Direct Debit fee - £30

 

etc etc - is this sufficent?

 

Thanks again - very confused!

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Another question if you dont mind, if on in the very slim chance that they dont acknowledge or submit defence by Sunday which is the deadline and I apply for judgement by default would the case be dismissed due to my poor particulars?

No - now the court have issued it, its down to the defendant to respond to your claim, regardless of whether its poorly pleaded. If they don't respond then default judgement is not granted upon the actual merits of a claim - solely as a result of the other sides default.

I have just read on here that I should have sent a scedule of charges to Northampton County Court after filing online. I knew nothing about this. Is it worth sending a covering letter giving more details and a scedule of charges and interest by 1st class post to the court today just incase I do go for Judgement by default or is it too late?

Send one if you like, yes - although its likely that you'll get the "too vague" defence regardless.

Also another stupid question but what EXACTLY is a schedule of charges? I have a list that Ive printed from Excel which is along the lines of

 

27/07/2002 - Overdraft excess fee - £30

27/08/2002 - returned Direct Debit fee - £30

 

etc etc - is this sufficent?

Thats it. Basically just a list or spreadsheet of the charges containing the date, reason and amount of each.


Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Can I still amend the claim while I am in the 'stay' period? My case has been stayed until 27th June.

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Why do you need an amendment?


Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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It was because I hadn't particularised my claim correctly. After using the templates that I have found on this siteI have done it correctly and have submitted the amendments this morning at a cost of £35, so just waiting to hear now.

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Ok, let us know how it goes.

 

Have you got a thread you can keep updated as you go along? If not, here you go, start one here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11


Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

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