Jump to content


The "Claim Too vague" defence and guide to amending a claim


GaryH
 Share

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5170 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi Gary!

Well i'm in the middle of asking for my charges back from LSTB!! And i just wanted some help really!

I've sent my LBA letter to them about 2 wks ago, and guess what............I've not had a reply!!! Now i need to now what to do next. Could you help and advise me in the right direction?!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks

Alison :confused::(:mad:

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 168
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Hello Alison

 

Please click the link here to start your own thread in the Lloyds forum, ask this question again and you will get more help.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

hy there

we applied to llyds tsb to get our charges back today we recieved a letter telling us that the charges were not default charges?? they say (quote this doesnt apply to your charges as these were for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. they are not default charges because you havnt broken your agreement . they are our prices for the service we provide in these situations. unquote) could someone please tell me what this means surely charging £30 for bouncing a cheque are charges???:confused:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gary, I have filed my claim and the bank has not defended but I realise that I could have worded the particulars of claim better. E.g I did not put a concise statement of the basis of my claim in law and fact.

 

The courts have already decided on judgement in my favour and for the amount to be decided by the courts (unspecified claim). I have a disposal hearing in June but I feel the way I worded my POC may affect how much I'm awarded. Do you think it's too late to file the amendament?

If you've been granted judgement your POC no longer matter. You've won.

 

Why is it for an unspecified sum?

hy there

we applied to llyds tsb to get our charges back today we recieved a letter telling us that the charges were not default charges?? they say (quote this doesnt apply to your charges as these were for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. they are not default charges because you havnt broken your agreement . they are our prices for the service we provide in these situations. unquote) could someone please tell me what this means surely charging £30 for bouncing a cheque are charges???:confused:

This is a completely standard Lloyds response. They are trying to put you off, which is something you should get used to. Ignore it and continue as planned.

 

Also, please start your own thread so everyone can keep track of your progress and offer help when its required. Go here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi CAG this is my first posting on here upuntil now i have been using the moneysavigexpert site which i cannot knock as up to now i have no faults with, sent off my two letters to lloyds requesting that my charges be refunded and had a reply from the second stating that they are sorry that i have a cause to make a complaint and that they would look into this matter, though it could take 4-6 weeks for a reply. In the forum on moneysavingepert i was advised to continue with my claim and sent off my LBA with no response i then logged into MCOL on the 4/4/07 and started proceedings against lloyds. The POC i attached were

 

 

The Claimant has an account ******** with

the Defendant

1. Between 01/07/2002 and 19/02/2007 the

Defendant debited numerous charges from the

Claimant?s account.

2. The charges are an unfair penalty under

the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

Regulations 1999, because they are a

disproportionately high sum in compensation

compared to the cost of the purported

breach.

3. Under the law of penalties, the charges

are an unlawful ?extravagant? penalty.

4. Under the County Courts Act, the

claimant is entitled to interest of 8% per

annum from the date they were deprived of

the money. This totals £454.14, accruing at

the daily rate of 0.021% until judgment or

payment.

5. The Claimant asks the court to enter

judgment in their favour for £2237 plus

interest, totaling £2691.14.

 

My Start date for the claim is for the 5/4/07 and i believe i need to give lloyds 14 to respond.

So this is where im at, thought i would give CAG community an insight as to where i am in my claim although moneysavingexpert has been great upto yet i do think that CAG is more educational to the whole process so i think i'll be using CAG from now on.

 

P.S

Does my claim look ok as i have not added a schedual to MCOL Though my bank did recieve these particullars in my first letter to them, coinsidentally i sent all my letters by recorded delivery and checked to see if they had been recieved

 

Thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, welcome to CAG:)

 

Your POC are not really what I'd call adequate, although it should be ok. Wait untill you recieve Lloyds defence - if they defend on the basis that the claim is too vague, then you may be advised to amend your claim accordingly.

 

Send 2 copies of your schedule of charges to MCOL straight away, using this covering letter;

The Court Manager,

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

If you do that then you'll have less chance of the bank objecting to your particulars.

 

Also, please start a thread in the main part of the lloyds forum, by following this link - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11. You'll then find there are loads of fellow Lloyds claimants who will be more than happy to help you at every stage of the process.

 

Best of luck.:)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, this is my first post on CAG. I am need of some advice, as i am starting to think my claim is a bit bodged.

I started by issueing a letter downloaded from the BBC's website/link concerning unfair bank charges attaching all the relevant statements highlighting the charges. LLoyds responded with a letter saying they were not prepared to refund my charges etc. I responded to this with a letter downloaded from the moneysavingexpert web site threatening court action in 7days. As I heard nothing from this i proceeded to issue a claim through MCOL, however stupidly didn't read the guide template first and entered "Default penalty charges from January 2001 to January 2007 based on the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations," as my POC. I have received a "Notice of Transfer of Proceedings" form which doesn't include an AQ but does include a copy of their defence which inevitbley (due to my POC) is using the "Too vague and embarrasing line". Do I file an amendment immediately or wait for a response from my local court? Also I made a typo on the original claim, I put the amount being claimed as £3690 and not £3694 as in my previous letter to the bank, does this matter or can i correct it in my amendment? Also i never included a schedule of the charges with the claim as i sent Lloyds a copy of the statements with charges highlighted attached to my original letter. Should i issue a schedule with my amendment?

I would be really grateful for some advice as to my next move.

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest that you file an amendment immediately - the chances are the AQ's will have been dispensed with anyway.

 

Use an N1 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/844-n1-claims-form-pdf.html

and attach the N1 POC - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-4-particulars-claim-n1.html

and attach a schedule of charges.

 

You can change the value at the same time, just make a note of it on the N244, like this;

Top left hand box:

 

1. Tick c), without a hearing

 

Leave the rest blank

 

Part A:

 

I ***** (the claimant)

 

(that....) allows an amendment to the above claim in respect of the claim particulars, as well as the value of the claim

 

(because....) the claimant did not adequately particularise his claim in that he did not specify the common law and statutory provisions upon which the claim relies. Subsequently the defendant in its defence has objected to the claims Particulars.

 

Part B:

 

tick 'evidance in part C' box

 

Part C:

 

Something like;

 

"I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my particulars of claim.

 

(brief explaination of why the amendment is needed, etc...............)

 

Please find attached to this application my proposed new particulars of claim, as well as a schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant. I respectfully request that my old Particulars of claim are disregarded and replaced with the proposed new ones as attached."

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. You need to file a brand new statement of case - which is the N1 and POC and schedule, and you need to apply for permission to do so by filing an N244 (application notice)

 

Follow the instructions in post #1, and give me a shout if you run into any problems.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gary your advice is great, i am new to cag as i have filed claim with mcol and realised after coming across your advice i have made big mistake. I used the exact template which you said would not be sufficient which i got from money saving expert templates. Feel a bit stupid as i have not included account no sort code date account opened or mentioned that i have already sent schedules of charges. feel like my world has fell apart! should i fill in form n244 at court and replace info with cag template as i should of in first place? thank u

French connection -V- lloyds TSB

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, welcome to CAG:)

 

I would'nt file an amendment just yet - wait untill you receive Lloyds defence. If you get the "claim too vague" one, which I suspect you will, then you should file an amendment at the same time as your AQ.

 

Don't worry about it - its nothing that can't be put right.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gary Thank you for your advice after a sleepless night of worry, i am so grateful to recieve your reply. I feel a bit lost to be honest. So Ive been reading some similar threads about people in similar situ, (not as vague tho ) do you think I should send two copies of my schedule of charges to the mcol court, I filed the claim on line last wednesday and it is due to be served tomorrow to the bank. I didnt know how or where to attach this info. As i havent even put my account number on it i fear the worst? Or should i just wait for LTSB claim to vague defence, as you have said? thank you Sue:)

French connection -V- lloyds TSB

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, you can certainly send 2 copies of your schedule to MCOL, as per post #85 above.

 

Wait for Lloyds defence before filing an amendment, you never know they may not even object, especially if you send your schedule.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

....

Why is it for an unspecified sum?

Oooops. Sorry Gary. Didn't reply to that bit. Had totally missed it. It was an unspecified amount as I was asking for damages. I have not been able to post my case as it is quite sensitive.

Thanx for the reply.

Ice

xxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello there Gary, I wonder if you could advice me on my claim with Lloyds please?

My court case has been ongoing for around 3 months now. This is what has happened so far:

1: Initiated court claim through MCO

2: Waited 14 days for reply from Lloyds, though they then finally filed an acknowledgement of service and were given a further 14 days to file a defence.

As soon as the 14 days were up, I applied for judgement by default, though this was rejected by the court. I later discovered this was because Lloyds had transferred to my local court.

3: Lloyds lawyers requested statements within 7 working days. These were sent by recorded mail, though somewhere along the lines these got lost in the post. (so they say). We checked the tracking numbers, but Royal Mail couldn't locate the statements.

4. A letter from the court came through stating Lloyds have requested for my case to be struck out, because they had not received my statements.

5. We contacted the court stating the statements were posted, though got lost in the post. They simply then told us to resend them to Lloyds lawyers.

6. Court requested for us to send details of the claim, explaining why we thought the charges were unlawful.

 

The latest now is the court have given me another two weeks to explain why exactly Lloyds bank charges are unlawful. They stated failure to state why would result in the claim being struck out. The amount in question I am claiming is £1300.00.

 

So my question is, has this scenario happened to anyone else? And secondly what exactly can I state to the court, proving that the bank charges are unlawful?

 

Thank you very much for your advice in advanced.

 

David Hamer

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gary,

I used MCOL when I put my claim in but it wasn't till after this that I discovered this website. Could you please read my POC on my thread at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/82221-aussie-lloyds.html

In my LBA I advised them that a copy of the schedule could be sent should they request it. (They never said they wanted it to be forwarded.) This was based on the fact that they hold the records for my account and therefore have the information close to hand. After all I wrote to them to get my previous statements so clearly they HAVE the information. Why then is it up to the claimaint to give the banks information they already have? I did not receive any response from them following the LBA and went on and MCOLed.

Have I stuffed this up? What do you think Lloyds' response will be if any? They have untill 2/5/07 to respond.

Cheers

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi i have been reading the comments about lloyds tsb and am currently waiting for lloyds to put in a defence myself they have untill the 6th of may, i too had a couple of concerns regarding the poc although i only claimed with the courts after 2 letters was sent to lloyds by myself with the schedual of charges both times with bog off replies really.... my concerns with the poc was that after reading posts on this site i thought my poc was to breif as i only put in the small version as i had trouble fitting the larger one into the spaces so i thought the small one would be ok !!!! so i rang the courts and spoke to a lady who was very helpfull she told me that if i just wanted to elaborate on the poc and not actually amend anything that i could send a seperate document printed out on paper as long as it was clearly stated what it was about and included claim number etc.. and to title it additional information regarding poc she said it would then be checked over and then put with the claim for free which i have done and also sent a schedual of charges with this as really i didnt want to wait and see if lloyds said it was an embarressment!! i also had a worry over the address for lloyds i put on the claim form with mcol as i couldnt find any address for them at the time so i put the one where i had received the bog off letters from which is andover and not the head office address in london but the lady said this was also fine to send the head office address stating that it was being sent incase the court papers was returned by lloyds and would have to be resent to another address as long as everything was stated clearly what was being sent to the courts and why. i only decided to take lloyds to court after many conversations with them over the phone regarding the charges as they said to me that if we showed good will gestures such as not using the debit cards and cheque books to prevent going over drawn (which we complied with) then they wrote to me and cancelled them any way!! then they asked about starting to pay off the overdraft at £50 per month which we did untill the overdraft was clear that they would then wave some of the charges or refund some of them which we had already paid but then when i rang again to see if they would keep to there word all they did was put in place another overdraft of £1500 which we had to pay back at £56 per month to cover costs of the loan with them which we was in arears with and to pay that months bank charges of over £400 so in all we had an overdraft of nearly £2000 so they never helped us at all we ended up owing them more money as the first overdraft was for £1000 which we paid off. i did state all this in the first letter i wrote to them and they didnt even mention it in the letter just the standard bog off letter!!! i followed this up with a phone call to lloyds before sending the LBA and the lady on the phone asked if i had any written confermation of this aggreement with lloyds and i said no it was all verbal on the phone and she advised me to go ahead with court proceedings so that it was i am doing feel nervous about it all and felt totally alone untill i found this site many thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

i have had 2 letters through today one from the courts saying i havent sent a fee for the £35 amendment fee so i rang the courts to ask about it and the lady said i could send in information fro free regarding the banks address but not the poc she said i need to make an amendment for the poc .... and also i had another letter today from andover lloyds tsb saying that is has now been 4 weeks since they received my complaint and they should of come to a conclusion regarding my complaint in the next 4 weeks !!! but when i got the 2nd letter back from andover they said this was there final response so feeling confused with it all today am going to start on the ammenment and try and get that sorted but can any one tell me if the letter from loyds is standard after they have told you no!!! from mrs.fedup!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...