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Julie A

Mis-sold product yorkshire bank - mislead financial ombudsman - we have now started court proceedings

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Miss-sold a product,

received final response from ombudsman

whom stated that we were an accidental landlords,

 

the Financial Ombudsman went onto say that the bank,

Yorkshire Bank, had missing paper work.

 

They ruled in the favour of the bank,

we fought back, by saying it was an unfair process, as they had missing paper work but the financial ombudsman said they had treated us fair, so would not re-open the case.

 

We went back to the ombudsman and stated this was an unfair process, as it was not true and Yorkshire Bank is misleading.

 

The ombudsman stood by their decision but said we could take them to court, in which we have just started court action.

 

I later found information in our own filing cabinet that showed upon mortgage application that the house was tenanted by our daughter and we had made it clear and it was stated clearly on the application.

 

As we went through that information it became clear that the bank had mislead the ombudsman,

they had not informed them that we already had a mortgage on our own property from the same company,

 

when we were filling in paper work,

we agreed to questions like,

are you paying for a residential mortgage,

we answered yes thinking it was this property we live in as the advisor had just been speaking about it.

 

The product we had wanted was a buy to let, on interest,

we ended up getting a residential mortgage on payment plan,

 

we didn’t know what this was as no information was provided, so never questioned it as thought it was a buy to let.

 

They also mis-sold another product at the same time,

which was a signature account

 

once that complaint was made we received a final response from Yorkshire Bank admitting no liability,

 

however,

we took this case to the financial ombudsman also a year before this one and they found in our favour on that particular case,

which was sold to us at the same time as this residential mortgage was, for a tenanted property.

 

We have recently found out by Yorkshire Bank that this was not just missing paper work but the mortgage file is lost.

Yorkshire Bank got out of this by saying but we have system files,

 

it was these system files that were produced to the financial ombudsman,

obviously missing out the information that we already had a mortgage before application and with themselves at our home address.

 

Our home address is residential.

Missing out the information that the property was tenanted before mortgage application,

missing out information that we wanted a buy to let on interest.

 

Yorkshire Bank mis-lead the Financial Ombudsman, plus the discussions with Helen, which they can’t keep on system files.

I have been writing to them for months by recorded delivery, they would not respond,

 

i used the last method I possibly could use,

it was facebook multimedia site,

we got them to speak to us,

however it was transferring letters we had already sent to them via facebook.

 

We then got a call from Yorkshire Bank,

stating they found the letters in a closed file and don’t understand why they went in that particular file.

 

During the call the lady made a mockery of the complaint,

when I mentioned our daughter was a tenant in that property,

she said, “oh your daughter”, although it was clearly documented.

 

We have since then had four tenants who are not related or friends.

That same advisor then started to tell us on the phone what the original advisor would have said to us at the mortgage application appointment,

 

I said, “hold on a minute” your putting words in our mouths, that was not said at all.

We have asked for a copy of the call but they said they will play it in a branch near us but we can’t have the recording.

 

They admitted fault in another letter today with regards to no correspondence and put £100 in our bank without asking us if we would accept, we don't want the money, we want justice. Hence the court case.

 

Is there any information you could supply us with or support us on,

as I am doing this court case myself as we can't afford to employ a solicitor?

 

We have also asked the bank permission as we are going to auction on the property but they said we need a valuation,

we said it has to be quick and urgent as the auction is June 2017.

 

We waited so long on them responding but never received a reply from them in three months,

we have had to take the next course of action to help ourselves as the Bank has turned their backs on us at that point.

 

I don’t mind the valuation, but June is fast approaching and this valuation in case there is a shortfall on the mortgage (all of this knowledge has been sourced by me from the internet) is not only our problem,

 

Yorkshire Bank has contributed to this by not supporting us or responding to us, when we were desperate.

We have also asked for email correspondence from them,

they have refused, saying letter only.

 

Because they did not respond to our other previous letters they have placed us in a bad situation dragging us along while times are getting difficult and trying to not get into the area of repossession, and now they think they can pull the strings and tell us what to do after all this time.

 

We are not going to be able to afford the full mortgage and the council tax, our limitation is June 2017, hence the auction.

 

We need some help or some area of support to reach to,

we will do the work,

this is not an issue,

but please,

some light at the end of the tunnel would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you x

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I'm trying to work through the story here but I have to say that your account please me rather muddled as to what it is all about. Maybe others will have more luck.

 

I understand that you believe that you have been mis-sold some product – mortgage, but I'm not too sure why.

 

I understand also that you eventually went to the ombudsman and the for some reason rather the bank didn't make full disclosure either deliberately or accidentally but that they have now found some papers.

 

The ombudsman found against you – but I'm really still not too sure what it was about, what the issue was, what your argument was and what was the basis of the ombudsman decision.

 

Also – and very importantly – I don't really understand what kind of value we talking about here.

 

What I'm especially concerned about is that you appear to have gone to a lot of trouble so far and not making much headway and now you have started a court action against the bank without really seeming to know what the procedure is and what your argument should be.

 

I think it might be an idea if you post up your claim form in PDF format – redacted to remove identifiers so that will give us another opportunity to understand what's happening.

 

I think maybe you should settle down and try to write out the story in a bullet pointed chronology which might make it easy to understand.

 

Although you have attempted to be very detailed, I think that I'm having trouble seeing through the trees here to make out where the wood is.


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Hi Bank Fodder,

yes believe we have been mis-sold a product,

we went for a buy to let, and discussed at the time that we wanted an interest buy to let.

We walked away with a residential mortgage on a buy to let, repayment.

 

However, during the application we already had a residential mortgage on our own home,

this is where the confusion is happening with regards to the story.

 

Our own home had a mortgage with Yorkshire,

we were now getting a buy to let on mortgage,

we explained to Helen we wanted the interest.

It is complicated.

 

When we went to the Financial Ombudsman,

after receiving a final response from Yorkshire Bank,

it was not until the latter end it was disclosed that some papers from Yorkshire Bank were missing to do with the mortgage product.

 

We went to the Financial Ombudsman stating we were mis sold a product and we wanted a buy to let.

They stated that Yorkshire Bank had provided us with a good deal,

but no mention during the case of the previous Yorkshire Bank mortgage was made,

no mention of tenants already in the property was made,

although we did make them aware,

they stated there was no evidence of it.

 

Yorkshire Bank,

declared to us,

by letter received yesterday 27th April 2017,

that it was not just missing paper work which the Financial stated it was,

it was the whole mortgage file.

 

The only information they had was the system files

(but we did not know all this when the financial ombudsman was investigating the issues).

 

The ombudsman stated they didn’t find that I/we were mis-sold a product,

although we requested a buy to let,

and received a residential mortgage

(a residential mortgage you have to have permission from the Bank to tenant the property out,

they were already aware,

so why do I need to give permission,

we thought it was a buy to let product),

 

they knew we didn’t live in the property as we were tenanting it out and intended to keep it that way,

we even discussed how we were going to invest the money as we would only being paying interest.

 

We did not understand how it all worked,

the advisor did not explain to us

we just went along the path thinking she was doing her best by us.

 

The financial ombudsman then stated we were accidental landlords and found ourselves in the situation,

which is untrue as the paper work clearly stated at mortgage application that the property was tenanted.

 

However this was not made clear to the ombudsman by Yorkshire Bank and Yorkshire Bank mislead them on other information,

as well as not stating we already had a mortgage.

 

This information was during the process of completing the mortgage form,

as the Yorkshire Bank consultant spoke about our own home,

which is residential,

 

we thought that paper work was about our home,

not the tenanted property.

 

Then she started to fill in the form,

when she was asking questions about

“will you pay or intend to pay for a residential mortgage”,

we answered honestly yes as we had always paid the mortgage on our home.

 

However it was for the rented property not our own home,

but the advisor did not explain that,

 

we were mislead by this Yorkshire Bank employee

and we were given a residential mortgage

not a buy to let as we wanted

and thought we were still getting.

 

With regards to value,

the tenanted property was valued at £70,000,

its now worth in the current market about £50,000 because of the housing situation.

Our mortgage is £42,000.

 

When we go to Auction,

we are trying to gain that price,

but if it doesn’t it could end up with a shortfall.

 

If it does end up with a shortfall because of the mis selling we would like that written off, this is hopefully the outcome.

 

We have been fighting this for coming up a year and have made no headway.

Yorkshire Bank,

did not make any contact,

although numerous letters were sent to them by royal mail and then recorded delivery.

 

I phoned them,

again they were no interested and said we would receive calls back,

no calls came,

they closed us down.

 

We had to go the facebook multimedia site of Yorkshire Bank to get them to speak,

that is when we found out they had been receiving our correspondence but placing this in a file, that was closed,

so left us to suffer further.

 

We know what the argument is,

breach of contract,

as well as other issues of misleading an authority that is there to be fair without discrimination.

 

How did the Financial Ombudsman deliver this outcome against us,

stating we were accidental landlords and were not mis sold a product,

without the information,

 

how did they get this far,

with missing files,

what turned out to be a missing mortgage file of information.

 

How did the Financial Ombudsman allow this to go ahead as an investigation when they knew that Yorkshire bank had a missing file, why were they not penalized

and why did Yorkshire mislead the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Remember,

a missing mortgage file,

is a lot different to missing paper work.

 

We were informed by the Financial Ombudsman that we could go down the court route,

we also spoke to a solicitor and he advised the same course of action.

 

I have already put a file together,

once this file and the information contained within it is all together

I will be in a better position to put a chronology together for court.

 

It is very complex

I can understand why you can’t see the wood for the trees,

we feel the same,

its complicated so its detailed and that is the issue.

Trying to simplify it is causing some issues,

so I agree.

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I'm sorry that I have left it so long to reply. I thought that if I allowed some time to pass on re-read it that I would form a clear view of what is happening but I'm afraid that it is still a muddle to me.

 

As I said, it would be helpful if you would tell us about the court claim that you have started and also posted a redacted copy in PDF format of your claim. This might help to move things forward.

 

If you really have start the claim and issued it then we really need to move on this.


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Agree with Bankfodder, that in order to avoid confusion, you need to use less words. Don't write a story about what has happened.

 

Can you please just answer these questions simply.

 

Did you use a Solicitors in regard to this mortgage application process ?

 

Did you already own this property or was it a new investment property you were buying ?

 

If you already owned it and it was a re-mortgage was your daughter an existing tenant ?

 

At the time of your mortgage application, what Yorkshire Bank buy to let product did you apply for ? ( interest rate, mortgage years (20, 25 years) and minimum deposit required)

 

What Yorkshire Bank standard residential mortgage were you offered ? ( interest, mortgage years, minimum deposit required)

 

Do you have currents tenants and is their rent coverlng the mortgage ?

 

Why are you having to sell the house ? ( mortgage arrears, change of circumstances ?)

 

Have you asked Yorkshire to change mortgage to interest only for a period ?

 

It might be that you did not qualify for a buy to let mortgage as you did not meet the Yorkshire Bank criteria at the time. The Yorkshire Bank mortgage advisor should have explained this to you. It might be that a standard mortgage was offered and Yorkshire were happy to do this for a tenanted property because your daughter lived there. Before you signed up to the mortgage the mortgage advisor would normally explain what was being offered and you would be given full details of the repayments etc.

 

I can't see the basis for a court claim. Banks use standard forms for mortgage processing and it is very difficult for a mortgage advisor to miss sell a mortgage. There is usually a lot of paperwork sent out containing details of the mortgage being offered and therefore i am not sure how you have ended up signing fir a mortgage type you did not want.


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Hi there

 

None of what you are saying sounds like our case,

so what I have done,

is print your information off, for our records.

 

Court process has already started,

application has been put in and we now have a court ref no,

 

to be honest to copy that information on here to show while going through court,

I don't think that would be honourable and I am very honourable person.

 

I thank you for your support but will do this myself,

the application has already been accepted and we spoke to a financial advisor not long ago who also stated the product was mis-sold.

 

Many thanks and we wish you well,

the support you have offered has been mind opening further and we do need that. x

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Good luck.

 

Just make sure you have all the information you need from Yorkshire Bank. For example have you asked them for their mortgage underwriting guidelines at the time for each product. I.e interest only buy to let and standard mortgage product.

 

I find it confusing how you applied for an interest only buy to let and somehow ended up with a standard mortgage including capitol repayment. There would have been much paperwork covering what type of mortgage it was, before a mortgage offer was issued.

 

Have you spoken to anyone about whether if you lost your claim, you might be responsible for Yorkshire Banks legal costs. The court might have accepted your application, but it does not mean a Judge will find it has merit. Up to you whether you want to use an online forum to discuss your claim in general without being too specific. At least you might find areas that you had not thought about.


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Hi there,

we find it confusing too,

we were not advised,

there was another signature account that went ahead at the same time,

we were informed this was free to come with the mortgage with a free insurance as she said at the time,

but it was not and we were mislead.

We were successful with that claim.

 

The confusion started at that stage,

feeling if we were mis-sold that we could been mis-sold this and I feel we have, so does others.

Hence why we are in the position now.

 

 

However, after indepth discussions and a complicated case,

the financial advisor saw what we were saying,

hence this stance on here.

 

 

You have been very helpful so far,

all this underwriting guidlines is also very new to us.

 

 

With regards to paper work covering what type of mortgage it was,

we did not receive information,

other than attend an office and provide our bank details, salary details, including paper work etc.

 

 

We were asked questions and then the house was valued,

the discussions with the advisor were always about a buy to let,

we don't understand how it got to here, the fact is it has.

 

 

We have to do the best we can,

which ever way it goes it will happen,

everything has an ending,

whether postive or negative.

 

We also want permission to auction the house,

that is the sticking point so when the valuation is completed then we will know either way.

 

 

We want a positive outcome, what will be will be now.

Although we are working towards a goal,

Yorkshire bank wasn't and ignored the issues for months,

 

 

only this last week they admitted they were putting the letters from us in a closed file,

so it just exagerated the issues further with none communication. ..

 

 

.... All the best unclebulgarie,

thank you for the extra information,

it is all helpful.

 

 

Staying postiive with a bullying bank is sometimes a bit mind blowing when your not made that way yourself.

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There is one crucial question.

 

Did you qualify for the interest only buy to let mortage ?

 

Mortgage advisors normally check eligibility for the mortgage product you are applying for first.

 

Did you get anything in writing saying you met the eligibility criteria for an interest only buy to let mortgage ?


We could do with some help from you.

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Hi there

 

 

 

to be honest to copy that information on here to show while going through court,

I don't think that would be honourable and I am very honourable person.

 

 

I'm very sorry that you take this view and I can assure you that there are no honour issues here. You are taking on a powerful well resourced opponent who apparently has acted dishonourably towards you by mis-selling your product. You should cast your net as widely as possible for source of advice and this forum is an excellent one. I'm afraid that by refusing to provide all the information regarding to your case, you are cutting yourself off from a valuable source of information and support and the only winners who will be your opponents.

 

Also, I'm very sorry but the story is still completely confusing to me.

 

I don't know if UB can make more sense of it. If he can then maybe he might be able to lay out a bullet pointed chronology will clarify it for all of us.

 

I think that you misunderstand the nature of these kinds of advice forums. This is not social media and the sense of Twitter or Facebook. This is a legitimate source of help for people who don't have the means to instruct professionals to act on their behalf and have to do it on their own.

 

I expect at some point you will eventually realise that you need to start discussing a situation frankly with people – but by this time you may have put yourself into a position where it would be too late.

 

I'm sorry


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we went for a buy to let, and discussed at the time that we wanted an interest buy to let.

We walked away with a residential mortgage on a buy to let, repayment.

 

 

What happens with mortgage applications is that people might apply for x mortgage product, but if they are found not to meet the eligibility criteria, then the mortgage advisor will look at other products. This is why i have asked the crucial questions about whether they qualified for the interest only buy to let mortgage under Yorkshire Banks mortgage underwriting guidelines at the time. If they qualified for the mortgage and there was no reason to be moved to a standard mortgage, then you can argue about miss selling.

 

What seems to have happened, is that the OP is unable to continue the mortgage and the value of the house has dropped from £70k to £50k. They are now arguing about the miss selling, as with a mortgage outstanding of £42k, with costs of selling, they are close to having a shortfall. Yorkshire Bank are therefore concerned about agreeing to the sale of the house at auction.

 

Rather than pursue a court claim against Yorkshire Bank, i just wonder whether the OP should stop trying to sell the house at auction, which Yorkshire Bank can presumably put a stop to themselves. Instead they should be trying to work with Yorkshire Bank to deal with the issues they have. Perhaps Yorkshire Bank will agree to interest only for a period and the house can be marketed for sale by an Estate Agent to obtain a better price. The value of £50k may be an auction price for a quick sale.


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To add to the above.

 

The other possibility is that the Yorkshire Bank mortgage centre found that they could not offer an interest only buy to let mortgage and there would have been letters and possibly phone calls at the time about swapping to a standard mortgage application.

 

So the initial talks with the branch mortage advisor were about the interest only buy to let mortage and it was sometime after this that decided by the mortage centre that they could not proceed. The mortgage advisors file is therefore not totally relevant as they are dealing with the original enquiry and submitting paperwork to the mortgage centre.

 

I can't possibly see any court case about miss selling being successful, unless the OP obtains full disclosure of all Yorkshire Banks mortgage centre records and it is found they have set up a different mortgage without ever telling the OP. If they just swapped products without ever bothering to write explaining this, then yes there is a case to answer.


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Hi Bank Fodder, yes I understand that, but coping legal documents here while this is going on. I have experience of court and one judge stated opening in court that the cliamaint wouldn't dishouner by making information public, although this was a very different senario than the one discussed here and what we are going through. This was frowned on by the judge, so with that experience I am very reluctant. I can do it personally, but not on an open site, if you get what I mean.

 

With regards to the interest only buy to let, I was not provided letters or phone calls, at all. Helen dealt with the whole issue, the majority of information we have on file has come from asking for it from the Financial Ombudsman and also Yorkshire Bank, although Yorkshire Bank made it difficult and asked us what we wanted specifically. Well we don't know about the information, so how can we ask for it specifically. I remember at the time we walked away on mortgage application with a document, I have looked at we have two copies of this, it says one for the customer and copy for us, so again. That is confusing. It is this document that clearly states Yorkshire Mortgage Application which has on tenanted by daughter, (who had a ligitimate tenancy agreement as that is what we were aiming for) an investment opportunity that turned sour.

 

We had already had with Yorkshire a standard mortgage, although small, on the house my husband had. I had the house in another area which was totally paid off so it didn't have a mortgage so when me and my husband met, we had two properties, we were going through a divorce and wanted the money we had to work for us, we had a lot of options open as we were currently attending court to settle the finances and this was an option so the judge asked us to investigate possibilities.

 

We did with Yorshire, made an appt with Helen and Helen took our information, then she recieved a valuation for the house that was paid outright (my property) and we took it from there. Helen knew at this stage we were going to a buy to let, we discussed it in length. Helen also stated about property recession and stated that interest rates will be higher for a buy to let at the time, we said its not a problem. We did not know what a residential mortgage was, it was the financial advisor last year in 2016 that informed us of this.

 

With regards to paper work, we didn't receive very much paper work, "swapping products again", what does this mean, are you referring to having a product live, then all of a sudden the bank swaps it for another product without informating the client? I am sorry, I am educated but we are learning about the financial side as we go, I am not qualified in this area, I am qualified in business, setting up of businesses. Not providing mortgages to people, it confusing.

 

You have to remember also, we took this to the Financial Ombudsman, whever files they saw at the time, we were not privy to. But when he outcome statement came and it was stated we were an accidential landlord, when it was not the case at all, hit me like a wall. I feel we have been mislead. I know you are trying to support with the information, I am doing my best. I even looked today at what an underwriter was. This information, having heard it before but not heard this from Helen who was doing our mortgage, she just said our mortgage was granted and had been succesful at the time. We were not provided information on what a repayment method was, we just assumed interest rates were high and that we were paying over the odds. We even said to Helen, don't worry interest rates will come down and we will re-apply for another interest rate at another time.

 

I am also not legal, so trying to stick to the points is difficult, although I am trying.

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Also, with regards to working with Yorkshire, we have done nothing but. Yorkshire however would not respond back. It took them months, I tried letters, and then recorded letters, emails, phone calls, none of which received a response. It was only two weeks ago, I thought I would see if they were on social media on facebook, I got a lady reply to me, i copied all the information to her, she asked me to delete it on the site. I said no, she referred this and then Yorkshire Bank started to respond to us.

 

We started the court proceedings because Yorkshire Bank would not respond, we were tryign to work with them. If no one talks back how can you even enter into negotiations.

 

Presently on the 27th April 2017, Yorkshire Bank Phoned and stated a valuation will have to be completed, that is not an issue so we have said yes, they said they will contact us back that day or the next day, Friday 28th April 2017, no call came.

 

We have a valuation from last year completed, today I am going to transfer this over their to multimedia site as that is the only way that seems to work.

 

We have pressed every button to talk, it hasn't been us, its been Yorkshire Bank. Hence the start of court proceedings.

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I am not a mortgage advisor or qualified in that area, but i have worked within mortgage centres and with them in regard to Insurance. So i have picked up knowledge over a period about their processes.

 

The way mortgages are dealt with is a standardised process that has to meet with industry standards. It is quite regimented, with every stage being documented as the mortgage and any house buying process progresses. The mortgage files are kept up to date, with any decisions or actions being noted, so that they can be audited at any time.

 

My theory is that you applied for an interest only mortgage, but at some stage for a reason you don't seem to be aware of, a decision was

made by Yorkshire Bank that you did not qualify for an interest only buy to let mortgage. Instead you would be offered a standard mortgage. At some stage, i would be surprised, if Yorkshire Bank did not write to you with details of the mortgage they were prepared to offer i.e a standard mortgage.

 

You can send Yorkshire Banks mortgage department an urgent Subject Access Request for a full copy of your mortgage file and see what comes back.


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Oh thank you so much, that is so sweet. I will do that. Its been so hard this, but that letter your on about, we never received anything like that. We will see what happens next, but thank you again x

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