Training day paid less than minimum wage

[king12345]

Hi guys, quick one in case I'm going mad.

 

My wife has been employed for 15 years at the same place and earns an annual salary which equates to £12/hour.

 

She was told to go on a customer service course for 8 hours and she would be paid overtime.

they paid her £30 gross on payslip itemising this as "training day".

 

As far as i know training is paid at the same rate as per your contract.

In fact, I looked at her contract and there's no mention about training whatsoever.

In any case, 8 hours for £30 is below the minimum wage right?

 

I would like to know before she starts WW3 on Monday as this is the umpteenth time they mess about with her pay and considering she's on a fixed salary and fixed hours they have really messed up too many times.

 

This is the first time she does "overtime".

 

All other times she took hours in lieu knowing how stupid the payroll people are.

Thanks

[renegadeimp]

First thing to do is to go and ask what the policy is. Did she get paid for the day as normal in her contract, and the training amount was a top up or bonus? How much do they normally get paid for over time, how many hours did she attend?

[clarkenuttal]

Training day pay usually equals either normal days pay (contracted hours) for the day or actual hours for the day whichever is higher

[king12345]

First thing to do is to go and ask what the policy is. Did she get paid for the day as normal in her contract, and the training amount was a top up or bonus? How much do they normally get paid for over time, how many hours did she attend?

 

Nothing mentioned in her contract about training and courses and the contract is quite detailed.

Overtime is paid at normal rate of pay apparently.

She attended for 8 hours 9 to 17:30 including half hour meal break which is unpaid as per her contract.

Don't know if training day was top up or bonus, on the payslip it just says " training day".

[sangie5952]

Training day pay usually equals either normal days pay (contracted hours) for the day or actual hours for the day whichever is higher

 

There is not, however, any legal requirement to pay in this way. The legislation around minimum wages is clear - it is an averaged hourly rate, not an "at least this amount every single hour" rate. So before she starts WW3 she needs to check out what her contract says about training. If she is paid £12 ph normally, then it is likely that her wage already takes her above the Living Wage when it is averaged out.

[king12345]

Training day pay usually equals either normal days pay (contracted hours) for the day or actual hours for the day whichever is higher

 

That's exactly what happens at my place of work.

I've never heard of a training day paid under the minimum wage.

Looking at gov.UK and acas websites I noted that training is considered normal work for payment.

Before anyone asks, she's well over 19 years of age and not an apprentice.

She's been employed for 15 years by the same company.

[sangie5952]

Nothing mentioned in her contract about training and courses and the contract is quite detailed.

Overtime is paid at normal rate of pay apparently.

She attended for 8 hours 9 to 17:30 including half hour meal break which is unpaid as per her contract.

Don't know if training day was top up or bonus, on the payslip it just says " training day".

Contractual terms may not be contained in the "contract " - contracts include policies and even common practice.

 

I would suggest that asking the employer calmly if they can explain this would be the best place to start.

[king12345]

Contractual terms may not be contained in the "contract " - contracts include policies and even common practice.

 

I would suggest that asking the employer calmly if they can explain this would be the best place to start.

 

Yes, that's always my first step.

Knowing how they messed payslips in the past and then gone into hiding, I anticipate that they will ignore her at first.

I looked at the employee handbook just now and it confirms that training is paid at "your normal hourly rate of pay".

[sangie5952]

In that case, then she needs to ask about this random payment amount. If they come up with another explanation then she needs to point out their handbook. I know it's annoying when seemingly simple stuff goes wrong, especially repeatedly, but little is gained by the nuclear option. In fact, some employers slow down when that is used!

[king12345]

In that case, then she needs to ask about this random payment amount. If they come up with another explanation then she needs to point out their handbook. I know it's annoying when seemingly simple stuff goes wrong, especially repeatedly, but little is gained by the nuclear option. In fact, some employers slow down when that is used!

 

I know, but they've really made a mess several times in the past, including terminating her contract without telling her (that was resolved).

The firm of solicitors at my union was keen to take them to court or employment tribunal and the file they put together is 4 inches thick (all emails and letters where at one point a director used the wordings: "you should be glad to have a job that allowed you to have fixed shifts. Nowadays women with other commitments simply don't get a job")

Nice guy!!!

I made sure that he was removed from his post, but they didn't sack him.

To me that's corruption company wise.

[sangie5952]

I appreciate how you feel subjectively. Which makes your union the best people to deal with this! I'd be fit to be tied if someone said that to a member, but I wouldn't rise to it - although I do have a long memory, and be careful not to later cross me when I have something on you! But it isn't corruption. He's just stupid enough to say what an awful lot of men, and some women, still think. And they wouldn't sack someone for this. Few employers would. Some employers would dismiss if they acted upon such a thought, but not enough. And this is the real world that we live in. So taking things subjectively will never be helpful. He'll possibly be sacked for one of two things - putting the company at risk of serious litigation, or not performing as the company requires (which has nothing at all to do with making his staff happy). On a scale of 1-10 of the worst things I've heard or seen said, that's about 0.5! And that might be overestimating!

[king12345]

Same here, in 20 years of union activities I have seen and heard horror stories, but putting in writing a discriminatory idea against women is not a smart move.

The company knows that all of their wrongdoing is documented and in the hand of a union solicitor.

At every issue they have been served with a without prejudice letter explaining that no further action were taken but matter was kept on file for any potential future use.

They even got to the point of refusing to accept a grievance because that would have lead to someone's dismissal (payroll manager) and they didn't want to go down that route.

To these days they are refusing to disclose the name of payroll and hr manager to staff for some crazy reasons.

Any communication to them is signed as payroll/hr manager, but never a name.

And listen to this: They are a registered charity and in their latest handbook they say: Employees, their relatives and any third party known to them are forbidden from contacting the charity trustees for any reason.

A breach of this policy constitutes gross misconduct and might lead to the employee dismissal.

 

How is this possible???

Anyone can contact a charity trustee.

What are they hiding?

And how could that be classed as gross misconduct?

[sangie5952]

Ah, that explains a lot. There are massive numbers of great employers in the third sector, but I have to say that every single one of the worst employers I have ever come across are charities. The third sector appears to have the ability to be either the best or the worst with little in between!

[king12345]

Update:

Manager referred query to payroll.

Payroll sent email back to manager saying we don't know what to do, you sort it out.

Manager replies saying he hasn't got access to payroll.

Payroll says: Tough, It's your problem, solve it and don't contact us again.

Manager shows these emails to my wife and says that he will try to sort it out, but he doesn't know how yet.

My wife said: I'll go home now (1 hour into an 8 hour shift) and we're even.

He accepts and my wife came home earlier than expected finding me in my neighbour's garden sipping beer instead of cutting the grass...

[sangie5952]

That will teach you not to interfere in the good lady's business....