Taking Car Trader to Small Claims Court

[Arkle 1]

Hey guys,

was wondering if you could give me some advice on whether I've handled a used car situation,

as after putting it off as much as possible,

I've been given no other choice but to take a car dealer to court

 

8th December, me and my girlfriend traded in her Corsa for £400, for a Polo plus £500 cash (£900) total.

 

The dealer checked her car,

and had access to it for about 4-5 hours.

 

I test drove one car,

which broke down straight away,

then test drove a similar but more expensive one,

but only at 30mph up and down the local road.

 

I refused the £50 Mot offered (Had 4 months left),

as I have a very trustworthy garage that I wanted to take it to.

 

As soon as money changed hands,

the car cut out when I drove it out,

to which the dealer said it was just because the car was parked on a slope

and it's just the petrol and would be fine after putting some petrol in it.

 

despite driving 15 mins back to my home,

and putting in £10 petrol,

the car kept cutting out,

whenever going over speed bumps the car would make awful scraping sounds.

 

when I took it to my garage they said there were two minor problems and an oil leak from the sump pan.

 

They said the dealer illegally sold me the car,

and that they would have to fix these problems straight away.

 

Dealer argued the case,

but eventually accepted that they needed fixing,

and booked me into his local garage.

 

5 days later i took it to his garage,

and when the work was done the mechanic denied that he was even told to look at the sump pan,

and that he wouldn't look at that until the dealer gave the go ahead (he did fix the 2 minor problems

 

again,

contacted dealer,

who reluctantly said he would book it in,

to which was another 5 days away.

 

When car was taken to garage, he kept it for a few days, and finally rang us to pick it up, but it was still cutting out while driving.

 

due to it being Christmas,

it took just under 2 weeks to get it checked by my garage (5th January)

to which they said that it wasn't fixed, and that I need to take it back.

Again contacted seller who arranged it for the 9th (a day after a month of having the car).

 

 

On the day I was unwell and my girlfriend didnt feel safe driving the car,

I text to cancel,

but then the dealer started ignoring us.

 

 

I tried ringing but no avail.

 

 

i gave it a few days and then text him again to say that I wasn't happy with the car and would like a full refund. No response.

 

spoke to citizens advice,

who said send him a recorded letter.

Which I did.

But again no response,

i text him saying if i dont hear back I will take it to court.

 

 

Thats when he finally responded saying that it's my fault for buying a used car,

and that he won't be giving me a refund and that I can take him to court but to let him know in advance.

 

There's been a lot of back and forth between me and him,

but the only thing he's willing to offer is £400 refund as he says the Corsa I traded in had a Head Gasket problem and it's cost him £480 to fix,

even though I was not aware of this problem,

and he had ample time to check and reject the trade in on the day.

 

 

He's also listed the car without saying that he's fixed it,

but is saying he's fixed pads and discs,

which he never mentioned to me.

 

I offered that he could have the Corsa for free,

but the minimum I would've taken was my £500 cash back,

to which he declined.

 

Now I've applied for small claims court and am claiming over £1200 as I've had to keep the car insured and taxed to keep it on the road as I have no where else to store it

 

I was debating whether to claim for traveling costs,

as the car was bought to travel to football matches but I've had to get multiple coaches and trains on the day

 

Do I have a good chance of winning?

Edited April 1, 2017 by Arkle

[dx100uk 8,786]

if you reported the faults within 14 days

you under CRA have 100% legal right to get a full refund without any reason

 

if you reported the car faulty within 30 days and gave the reasons why

under CRA you are entitled to a full refund.

[BankFodder 1,592]

To qualify the above reply slightly, my understanding is that you would actually have to assert your short-term right to reject within 30 days. The assertion has to be quite clear and so I'm not sure if merely drawing attention to faults within the first 30 days is enough to satisfy the requirement under the Consumer Rights Act.

 

Anyway, within the first six months you have a right to reject the goods and insist on a refund or a replacement if the dealer has been given an opportunity to repair and the repair has failed.

 

It seems to me that this may be the case here.

 

You say that you have already issued the claim.Please will you post up a the claim in PDF format having redacted the identifiers.

 

We better see exactly what you have put so that we can understand the situation clearly.

 

However, you seem to be saying you have started the claim and now you want to add other items such as travelling. These really should have been included as part of the claim because potentially, amending a claim could cost you about £150.

 

You certainly should be claiming not only for a complete refund of all money but also compensation for any losses which have been caused by this problem.

 

Please post up the claim and then we can give you some better advice

[Arkle 1]

Hey guys thanks for your responses

 

The problem was indeed taken for repair once and the problem was still there when checked by my garage

I did book the car back in with the dealer again but couldnt make the appointment, and since that hes refused to repair, replace or refund me since, saying that it was my risk to purchase a second hand car and that because the car my girlfriend traded in required £480s worth of work (we traded it in for £400), he wouldn't refund us

 

The problems were over the Christmas period, and the two appointments he booked were nearly a week after the faults were raised, which i think i read would prolong the 30 day refund online (maybe im wrong)

 

i have already submitted to court, and know i could've charged for travel expenses too, but was worried about seeming petty to the judge, and for the sake of 50-60 quid, thought i could leave it

 

My personal opinion is that he doesn't believe that the problem is still there, but I've said he can inspect the vehicle and should he refund me he can pick the car up as I don't feel it's safe to drive, plus I don't know what extra damage the oil leak has caused

[dx100uk 8,786]

regardless to the holiday period...

when did you FIRST report the fault?

when did you purchase the car?

[Arkle 1]

Car was bought on the 8th December, and reported the fault on the 10th December

[Arkle 1]

Hi Guys, this is what I've presented to the court, and after a hearing today Ive been told I have to spend another £455 for another hearing and an expert mechanic as a witness. Hoping someone can give me advice as I'm nearly 2k down the drain and Im a full time carer for my disabled girlfriend and cant afford to keep fighting if theres a chance of losing.

 

 

8th December 2016

Bought VW Polo from Motors for £500 cash plus £400 trade-in value for my girlfriend's Vauxhall Corsa.

Mr R inspected the Corsa and told us that in it's current condition it was worth £400 (which he reiterates in his defence).

The Polo that we purchased was for sale at £995, and I asked for a discount because the car I had originally looked broke down before the test drive, a similar Polo priced at £500.

 

 

Mr Ralph advised us towards the Polo that we did purchase, stating that it's current price was a reflection on its quality and good condition, which led us to believe it wouldn't have problems such as an oil leak.

 

Motors has a mechanic on site, Mr D, and no faults were disclosed to us so we turned down the offer of a new MOT, bringing the cost down by £50 – the price of an MOT, but insisted on a warranty.

 

I test drove the VW Polo and that went smoothly, but after purchasing it, it broke down approximately 100 yards from Motors.

I sent my girlfriend back to Motors for assistance. Mr R had left the premises before the point of sale, and his mechanic, Mr D, followed her to where the car had broken down.

 

 

Mr D drove the car a short distance, just around a roundabout and back, and stated that the car just needed petrol as it had been stored on a slope, and the road we had broken down on was uphill also. He advised us to put petrol in to the car ASAP.

 

On the way home, as soon as I went above 30 mph, the car began to stutter and the engine cut out.

My girlfriend and I heard loud bangs that seemed to come from underneath the car.

We cautiously drove it home, as we weren't far from home at this point, but booked the Polo in for inspection with W MOT

– a garage that my partner and I trust and have used for years.

Their next available appointment was 14th December 2016.

 

14th December 2016

Upon W MOT inspecting the Polo, they advised us of 3 faults; the offisde drop link was worn, the offside cv boot was split and there was an oil leak from the sump pan.

 

 

They advised us that the car should not have been sold in this condition and to speak to the trader immediatly to rectify the problems.

We spoke to Mr R, who asked us to return the car to G Motors.

 

 

When we explained that we were hesitant to drive it such a long way in it's condition he suggested that we take it straight to the repairing mechanic

– a friend of his named S at Fauto. We agreed to this, and Mr R said he would speak to S to arrange the appointment.

 

15th December 2016

I called Mr R's mobile several times for an update on when the repairs would take place.

He replied that we could go that day, but when we arrived at Fauto, S was only aware of two of the three problems

– he did not know about the oil leak.

 

 

He agreed to fix the first two problems but as the oil leak would be expensive and time consuming he said he would need to speak to Mr R before agreeing to undertake that work, and that it wouldn't be done that day.

 

 

We called Mr R, who did not answer, so we sent a text message explaining that S couldn't fix the oil leak from the sump pan for another week and wanted to confirm the repair with Mr R. Mr R later got back to us explaining that he had booked the Polo in for repair on the 20th December 2016.

 

20th December 2016

I took the VW Polo to Fauto for repair, and left the car with S awaiting notification that it was ready to be picked up.

 

21st December 2016

I text S to ask when we could collect the car as he had advised it was an hour job and had had the car overnight. S told me to collect the car the following day – the 22nd.

 

22nd December 2016

I picked the car up from Fauto. It was still cutting out on the drive home. I contacted W MOT whose earliest appointment was 5 Jan, due to Christmas and New Year.

 

5th January 2017

I took the car to W MOT who told me that the sump pan was still leaking and was saturated with oil.

They told me that it had not been replaced since they last inspected it but had been hastily fixed with sealant, which wouldn't be a lasting repair.

I text Mr R to arrange a second repair with Fauto on the 10th January.

 

10th January 2017

I awoke suffering sickness. My girlfriend text Mr R apologising and explaining that we could not keep the appointment with Fauto but asked if we could rearrange (despite that she is able to drive, she suffers anxiety and is a nervous driver and had not yet driven the Polo at all so wasn't confident or comfortable in driving it to Fauto). Mr R did not respond.

 

16th January 2017

After seeking guidance from Citizens Advice and Trading Standards, I sent a letter to G Motors stating that I was unhappy with the repair and would like to exorcise my right to reject the Polo with a full refund given. I gave Mr R 7 days to reply and received no response in this time frame.

 

24th January 2017

Upon receiving no response from my letter, I text Mr R giving him until the 27th of the month to reply, stating my intention to pursue legal action if he continued to ignore my communications.

 

25th January 2017]

I received a letter from Mr R dated 24th Jan.

He stated that I claimed the oil leak was an MOT failure – I did not.

He also states in this letter that the car was taken to an independent garage, but in fact had told us that S at Fauto was a friend of his, so not entirely independent.

 

 

Mr R states that the repair was carried out and that I called him claiming a 'very small leak' was still present.

I have never described the leak as such.

I stated the repair did not seem to have been carried out and that the sump pan was still leaking (as can be seen on the printed text messages).

 

Mr R also states that a car of 15 years old with the Polo's mileage is likely to have defects. Upon purchase I was told it was in good condition and he did not make me aware of any defects, which by law he is required to do.

 

I sent a response to Mr R reinforcing my reasons for rejecting the vehicle – primarily the safety of myself and other road users – and asked if he was a member of an ADR or willing to enter mediation.

 

2nd February 2017

Mr R responded, claiming again that we had not let him know that we would not be able to attend the 2nd repair yet admits receiving the text message on the 24th January (Both messages show in my girlfriend's iphone as delivered).

 

 

Mr R refused to enter mediation and stated that he was not a member of an ADR. He claims that the corsa that we part exchanged failed its MOT on a major oil leak – yet the official record from the gov.uk website does not acknowledge this on that cars MOT at all.

 

Mr R offered to unwind the deal, claiming £460 work had been done on the corsa, and that he would return the corsa minus that amount

– effectively offering to return the corsa and £40 to us.

 

 

He advises me against court in this letter, stating that an undiagnosed oil leak is not an MOT failure or a major fault.

I question the adjective 'undiagnosed' as the leak was diagnosed by W MOT, which I have written proof for, and surely acknowledged by Fauto seeing as they had attempted to repair the problem.

 

20th February 2017

I responded to Mr R's offer and made a counter offer of £500 refund, stating that he could keep the corsa. This offer was made in an attempt to have the matter ended and dealt with, as my girlfriend suffers extreme anxiety and depression and an ongoing court case would not benefit her health, or indeed mine.

 

1st March 2017

Mr R responds, rejecting our offer and instead offering us £400. He states that if this isn't acceptable, the Polo must be available for inspection once we apply for a court date. He has not inspected the vehicle at any time to this date.

 

2nd March 2017

I submitted the online application to the courts along with the required payment of £70.

 

24th May 2017

Mediation was attempted but was unsuccessful.

[Ford 2,335]

background thread?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476307-Nervous-about-my-first-Small-Claims-Court-case

[Arkle 1]

yeah

[dx100uk 8,786]

threads merged

please keep to one thread

 

 

dx

[Arkle 1]

thank you

[Ford 2,335]

my post seems to have gone awol

 

after a hearing today Ive been told I have to spend another £455 for another hearing and an expert mechanic as a witness. Hoping someone can give me advice as I'm nearly 2k down the drain

can you elaborate on the hearing; what type of hearing was it, what exactly were the directions/order, any costs reserved/awarded (small claims), the claim and defence particulars (as has been asked), etc.

to help the guys help on.

[Arkle 1]

honestly i dont know what type of hearing.

 

 

i thought the case was going to be concluded today and it hasn't

 

the directions were that another hearing would take place within 8 weeks, that I had to pay another £80 for that hearing

 

Was told me and the trader would have to email each other to agree to an independent mechanic to diagnose whether the car was road worthy back in Decemeber, and that we would have to split the cost of up to £750

 

I was under the impression the law doesn't mean whether it was road legal or not, but whether it was sold in a condition suitable for it's purpose, which I've given evidence towards the fact it wasn't

 

The car was also cutting out when even slightly over reved, but my garage couldnt find the exact fault of that, and put it down to possible damage from the already oil leak

[renegadeimp 2,287]

Sounds like something got mixed up. If you rejected it 2 days after buying it, then its clear. All this current fluff shouldnt be happening.

[Arkle 1]

Im certainly confused too

Didnt reject it after two days, but called him about problems after 6 days

he fixed the two minor ones and said on two occasions hed fix the oil leak

got dragged over 30 days after buying it, but im sure that it gets extended if he has the car in being fixed, which he did for 3 days, and it was the 31st day he started ignoring me (obviously thinking he knows the law)

 

judge today seemed very obsessed with whether it was road legal or not, i know an oil leak is an advisory, but £350 to fix something on a car that was present when he sold it to me is not ok

but now im getting priced out of the court case as i simply cant keep affording to fork out the money and not knowing how much I could win back, especially when the mediator and the judge both pretty much laughed in my face that im still paying tax and insurance on the car to keep it outside my flat

[Ford 2,335]

and not knowing how much I could win back

in terms of costs. its small claims, so costs are usually limited.

if you win, you should at least get back your share of the expert cost plus court fees.