NRAM contact letter

[worriednanxious]

Witness statement needs to be at the court on Monday.

I have been reading lots of threads and have come up with the following draft.

Doesn't look very beefy but I think it states everything:

 

1 The Defendant admits entering into an agreement with Northern Rock (attached app 1) and which was regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

 

It is the defendants belief that NR did not comply with section 2.5 of the terms and conditions whereby parties will not be able to drawdown the loan amount if they have mortgaged their residential property for more than 95% of the value.

 

 

NR themselves had processed and agreed a mortgage for the defendants on their residential property for more than 95% of the value.

The defendant therefore believes that NR deliberately broke the terms of the agreement and as a result it should be deemed unenforceable.

 

2 The Defendant admits the receipt of the default notice (app 2).

The notice failed to specify a date being a date 14 days after service of the notice or any date after service by when the Defendant was required to comply with the notice.

 

 

Alternatively, the date specified in the notice by when the Defendant was required to comply was before 13 October 2008 which was not a date which was 14 days after service of the notice.

 

 

Some of the text contained in the default notice does not confirm to the 1983 regulations.

 

 

Specifically the underlined text in the

"If the action required..." should be afforded more prominence as the test around it is in bold further, the "DO NOT" in the next statement is not even underlined, and it should be. Finally the default notice does not contain a signature from Northern Rock.

 

3. The defendant admits to receiving a Termination Notice (App 3) dated 8th December 2008 by reason of the matters set out at paragraph 2 of this statement and the requirements of section 87(1) of the Act, this was a step which the Claimant was not entitled to take.

 

4. Further, incorporated within the sums demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and legal costs (statement App 4). The Defendant beleives such charges are inaccurate and therefore inadmissable.

 

5. I believe the facts stated in this Witness statement are true.

 

A lot of it is just re-jigged from the defence.

Is this enough detail?

I am not sure how much I should say aside from what actually happened which is we entered the agreement and received the notices.

 

Thanks for the advice

[worriednanxious]

Well here is an unexpected development

- today I have received a notice of discontinuance dated 8/1/2010 which has apparently been filed at the court.

 

 

is that it?

Can they file another claim?

Why the sudden change of heart and more importantly is there anything I can do to insist they recitify my credit history which they have been destroying for the past year?

[the_shadow]

Blimey, you dont want much do you ;-)

 

As to the first question, so long as that notice has been filed at court then thats it... as you have filed a defence they would need the permission of the court to file a claim against you for the same account imvho.

 

Why change of heart... remember there are no feelings involved on their side, its purely a tactical game where they work on numbers, a certain percentage will pay up when they get court action, a number will defend (badly) and a small minority find CAG and are able to put forward a defence which would end up them paying up front fee's that there is no guarantee they would get back.

 

As to credit history, You could try a letter in the first instance but it may take court action to get it removed.

 

Oh and personally I'd be ringing the court to ensure that discontinuance did actually get through........ and then there is the matter of costs ;-) In theory you can put in a wasted costs order against them.

 

S.

[worriednanxious]

wow can't believe its over

- I've been stressing for ages about this.

 

 

Thankyou so much for the help I found on here I wouldn't have known where to start without this site, will definately be donating.

 

Will definately check the court has received the notice on Monday but it really does look like great news:D

[worriednanxious]

Hi any advice on this gratefully received.

 

In short Northern Rock filed a claim against me back in 2009 for roughly £24k.

In Jan 2010 I received a lovely letter from their Sols saying they were discontinuing the case which was great.

 

Recently they have started phoning again,

they can find no paperwork relating to the court claim.

 

 

Today they advised that I had 14 days to send them copies of the paperwork or they will take further action!

(Although I'm not sure what action they can take without the paperwork?)

They also asked if I could make a payment today (cheek!)

 

Interestingly they are now saying that the debt is £25k and repayments have increased due to interest rate changes???

Which I haven't received any information about.

 

Firstly

I'm confused why would they not chase a debt for over a year and then suddenly start again

- surely this would have come to light before now?

 

Secondly

should I send them the paperwork they are after

- and if so which bits as the case did get quite far before they discontinued

- I had filed a defence.

Shall I just send them a copy of their Sols letter saying case discontinued.

 

Advice gratefully received

- I wonder if anybody else is getting this from them recently or if its just my paperwork they have lost.

 

Thankyou

[diddydicky]

definately not- you are not their filing system manager

 

if you have your copies and they dont have any- then they are up sh*t creek without a paddle

 

let them blunder on

 

my advice would be to sit tight and WAIT for them to issue proceedings if they have re issued on the same facts (which is almost certain)

 

if you submitted a defence then they cannot start a new action on the same facts- without the PRIOR permission of the court

 

they are so arrogant that they will think you know nothing of this and will start the action BEFORE asking permission of the court

 

THEN you can put in a defence and apply for a strike out with costs since by then they will have dropped themselves in the doo doo

 

if they at that point attempt to apologise to the court for their error and ask permission after the event to start a new action and state that they beleive the facts to be different (which is the only way they could) from the first claim- then you can get hold of their short an curlies and ask them to explain to the court HOW they know the facts to be different- when they have admitted that they have no knowledge or paperwork from the first action!

Edited March 15, 2011 by diddydicky

[worriednanxious]

That all sounds great.

 

I think they are just being pushing hoping that possibly circumstances have changed and we might want to pay.

 

 

It would be interesting to see what further action they think they are going to take as we haven't received any new demands for payment they would have to go to court based on the previous demands so their facts couldn't be different.

 

Would it be advisable to write them a letter stating they discontinued the case on XYZ date and I would like any further communciation to be in writing only.

 

 

They keep phoning while I'm at work and leaving a generic call centre number to call back on?

I'm thinking then that they have been made aware of what happened

(although not provided with any physical paperwork)

and I can start collecting evidence if they continue to harrase me for payments on a debt they discontinued.

[dx100uk]

yes nail them!

 

phishing trip me thinks!!

 

dx

[worriednanxious]

Here is the letter I am proposing to send to NR:

 

Dear Northern Rock,

 

I am writing in regards to your recent telephone conversations concerning an alleged overdue account.

I have informed you previously that you took this matter to court in August of 2009.

 

 

As the court case was proceeding we received a letter from you solicitor dated 12th January 2010 stating that you no longer wished to proceed with the claim against myself and xxxx A notice of Discontinuance was filed dated 8th January 2010.

 

You informed me that you were unable to locate copies of the paperwork regarding this

however had these events not occurred I am quite sure you would have been chasing us for payment long before now.

 

 

I have been advised not to provide you with my copies of all the paperwork regarding this, and do not think that your lack of efficiency warrants the recent threats received regarding further action and requests for payments on a debt that wasn’t claimed.

 

Could I please request that both mine and xxxxx telephone numbers are removed from your system and any future correspondence regarding this is made in writing.

 

Kind Regards

 

Does this sound ok

- I'm a bit dodgy on the lack of effiency bit

- don't want to upset them and push them into taking further action if I can help it.

 

Thanks for the advice.

Edited March 17, 2011 by worriednanxious
left personal info in

[debbbbsy]

I have been advised not to provide you with my copies of all the paperwork regarding this, and do not think that your lack of efficiency warrants the recent threats received regarding further action and requests for payments on a debt that wasn’t claimed.

 

Not sure about this bit. Don't admit that you have the paperwork, merely that you are under no legal obligation to provide documents that they themselve should have retained.

[worriednanxious]

after a bit of thought here is a second attempt,

any advice gratefully received, should I mark it without prejudice?

 

 

I am writing in regards to your recent telephone conversations concerning an alleged overdue account.

I have informed you previously that you took this matter to court in August of 2009.

As the court case was proceeding we received a letter from you solicitor dated 12th January 2010 stating that you no longer wished to proceed with the claim against myself and Mr XXXX.

A notice of Discontinuance was filed dated 8th January 2010.

 

You informed me that you were unable to locate copies of the paperwork regarding this however had these events not occurred I am quite sure you would have been chasing us for payment long before now.

 

 

I hope that you will be able to update your system with this information,

and that telephone calls regarding this containing threats of further action and requests for payment will cease.

 

Could I please also request that both mine and Mr XXXX telephone numbers are removed from your system and any future correspondence regarding this is made in writing.

 

Kind Regards

[worriednanxious]

Well after sending the letter to NR

they nicely replied and said they were looking into my complaint!!!

I only did as they asked but left them to investigate hoping a nice resoultion would be reached.

 

after concluding their investigation they have responded stating the facts of the case,

how they took us to court,

we filed a defence. and "after investigation with the legal team it was agreed that the default notice was not valid and therefore the action could go no further.

We contacted our solicitors who issued a notice of discontinuance".

 

Conclusion

"I can confirm that the notice of Discontinuance is confirmation that the judgement is no longer valid.

However this does not mean that the debt has been written off.

Our Solicitors have confirmed that we can still pursue you for the debt outstanding."

"Please contact us to arrange repayment of the outstanding sum"

 

Can they really continue to chase me for the money?

And what further action could they take knowing they didn't comply with the credit act rules

- and have admitted that in writing?

 

 

I have also checked my credit report and this is stating the the account is settled.

Is there anything else I can do or should I just ignore them everytime they call/write?

 

Many thanks for the advice - it has always been very helpful.

[nicklea]

Yes they can still ASK you for repayment.

 

Also, if they manage to send you anohter DN that is valid then, I would suggest, they will be able to start another claim as the facts will be different - this time they HAVE served you with a valid DN whereas last time they hadn't

[worriednanxious]

The agreement was terminated before the court case - how can they start sending DN's again?

My understanding from reading other threads was that if an agreement was terminated with dodgy paperwork which they admit it can't be re-instated?

[nicklea]

No, that is wrong. If they did not send you a correct DN then they cannot terminate an account that is in default.

 

There is a lot of discussion on here from people that have a lot of great theories but they've never been in a court with them. If you tried it you would very much be a guinea pig for these people's theories, I would suggest.

 

But please feel free to follow any advice that you wish.

[worriednanxious]

I'm happy to be the ginea pig and go all they way if needed because I'm thinking if they win I'll declare bankruptcy anyway because I really can't afford to pay any more.

 

So although the theory is that if they issued a defective DN they cannot effectively terminate the agreement this hasn't been tried in a court yet?

 

So all I can really do for now is sit tight - continue with not making payments and see where they go from here?

[nicklea]

If you are a homeowner then they will apply for and probably get a chaging order. This would mean that this debt wouldn't be included in your bankruptcy.

[worriednanxious]

wouldn't they need to take the case to court first before they can apply for the order?

 

 

My understanding was they would go to enforce the debt

- if they won the case and we failed to pay they could then go for the charging order so they would have to go back to court for this - I could make myself bankrupt in the meantime.

 

Not very good on CO's and understand they won't be included

but if I sold they home they would get any leftover money

(after mortgage repayment and fees etc) once that is done then the CO is settled?

Or can they continue to chase for the remaining amount?

[DuffNCustard]

I would give careful consideration to sending them a SAR - you need to get to the bottom of those details about interest rate increases. Also sends them a signal - you're well informed of your rights and know how to assert them.

[DonkeyB]

Yes they can still ASK you for repayment.

 

Also, if they manage to send you anohter DN that is valid then, I would suggest, they will be able to start another claim as the facts will be different - this time they HAVE served you with a valid DN whereas last time they hadn't

 

Technically, the PoC may actually be identical to the first, so although the real facts may be different, the claim itself will possibly be worded identically. Wonder how they’ll get round that one? Not sure we have any case law to tell us yet, and NR may be a bit embarrassed to apply to the court for permission to relitigate. You would be entitled to ask how many bites of the cherry can they have, but clearly you acknowledge a debt of some degree, and indeed they are entitled to chase their money.

 

The debt, however, does not go away, of course. But if they have not sent you statements and notice of arrears they cannot add interest.

[worriednanxious]

They phoned today and asked for payment

- I said I didn't have any money to pay.

 

 

They wanted to do an income and expenditure over the phone

- I said no and they are posting one out.

 

 

They also phoned the other person on the loan and asked if they could even just make a payment of £1 a week.

 

 

Wondering if they are still on a phishing trip and trying to get us to pay something so they can start all over again.

 

I know there is a debt the problem for me is the other person on the loan did remortgage when I left and had enough with their new mortgage to pay this off

- and it wasn't till some time later that I discovered they didn't and instead spent the money on a new car.

 

 

I would pay it if I had the money but I have £11k of debt in my own name,

my own mortgage and a young child so most of my wages go on the childcare and other bills I really don't have anything spare and certainly not the £25k they are now after.

 

I am wondering if I should just sit tight and see what they do

- should I complete the income and expenditure?

Or do I just declare myself bankrupt now.

 

 

I am concerned that will continue to chase and then decide to take to court just before the 6 year statue barred would come into play and that would bring me right back to square one.

 

 

Whereas I could sort it now with BR and be clear (all be with a bad credit rating) in 6 years.

 

Will they still have to ask to relitigate if they produce new documents then?

[worriednanxious]

Hi,

 

Many years ago myself and ex partner had a together mortgage with Northern Rock.

 

When we split he took out a new mortgage and was supposed to clear the loan but didn't.

 

They raised a court case which I fought with help from the guys here - Thank you.

 

I don't remember actually going to court if memory serves they dropped the case.

I was contacted shortly after by a debt collector offering to settle for 5k which I declined as I didn't have the money.

 

Forward several years

and a letter arrived this morning at my new address.

 

It is addressed to "the occupier" and asks if I live here and to call them to either confirm this or advise them of another address.

 

The debt that was with them is over 6 years old and is removed from my credit file.

 

My question are:

Why should they be trying to contact me now?

Should I tell them....what can they do?

Is there any likelihood that this could be to do with the interest repayment debacle?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice x

[dx100uk]

who's sent the letter?

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

5 threads merged for history.

 

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

Its a phishing letter. Dont respond to it.