Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I'm still pondering/ trying to find docs re the above issue. Moving on - same saga; different issue I'm trying to understand what I can do: The lender/ mortgagee-in-possession has a claim v me for alleged debt. But the debt has only been incurred due to them failing to sell property in >5y. I'm fighting them on this.   I've been trying to get an order for sale for 2y.  I got it legally added into my counterclaim - but that will only be dealt with at trial.  This is really frustrating. The otherside's lawyers made an application to adjourn trial for a few more months - allegedly wanting to try sort some kind of settlement with me and to use the stay to sell.  At the hearing I asked Judge to expedite the order for sale. I pointed out they need a court-imposed deadline or this adjournment is just another time wasting tactic (with interest still accruing) as they have no buyer.  But the judge said he could legally only deal with the order at trial. The otherside don't want to be forced to sell the property.. Disclosure has presented so many emails which prove they want to keep it. I raised some points with the judge including misconduct of the receiver. The judge suggested I may have a separate claim against the receiver?   On this point - earlier paid-for lawyers said my counterclaim should be directed at the lender for interference with the receiver and the lender should be held responsible for the receiver's actions/ inactions.   I don't clearly understand that, but their legal advice was something to do with the role a receiver has acting as an agent for a borrower which makes it hard for a borrower to make a claim against a receiver ???.  However the judge's comment has got me thinking.  He made it clear the current claim is lender v me - it's not receiver v me.  Yet it is the receiver who is appointed to sell the property. (The receiver is mentioned/ involved in my counterclaim only from the lender collusion/ interference perspective).  So would I be able to make a separate application for an order for sale against the receiver?  Disclosure shows receiver has constantly rejected offers. He gave a contract to one buyer 4y ago. But colluded with the lender's lawyer to withdraw the contract after 2w to instead give it to the ceo of the lender (his own ltd co) (using same lawyer).  Emails show it was their joint strategy for lender/ ceo to keep the property.  The receiver didn't put the ceo under any pressure to exchange quickly.  After 1 month they all colluded again to follow a very destructive path - to gut the property.  My account was apparently switched into a "different fund" to "enable them to do works" (probably something to do with the ceo as he switched his ltd co accountant to in-house).   Interestingly the receiver told lender not to incur significant works costs and to hold interest.  The costs were huge (added to my account) and interest was not held.   The receiver rejected a good offer put forward by me 1.5y ago.  And he rejected a high offer 1y ago - to the dismay of the agent.  Would reasons like this be good enough to make a separate application to the court against the receiver for an order for sale ??  Or due to the main proceedings and/or the weird relationship a borrower has with a receiver I cannot ?
    • so a new powerless B2B debt DCA set up less than a month ago with a 99% success rate... operating on a NWNF basis , but charging £30 to set up your use of them. that's gonna last 5mins.... = SPAMMERS AND SCAMMERS. a DCA is NOT a BAILIFF and have  ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter WHAT its type. dx      
    • Migrants are caught in China's manufacturing battles with the West, as Beijing tries to save its economy.View the full article
    • You could send an SAR to DCbl on the pretext that you are going for a breach of your GDPR . They should then send the purported letter of discontinuance which may show why it ended up in Gloucester and see if you can get your  costs back on the day. It obviously won't be much but  at least perhaps a small recompense for your wasted day. Not exactly wasted since you had a great win  albeit much sweeter if you had beat them in Court. But a win is a win so well done. We will miss you as it has been almost two years since you first started out on this mission. { I would n't be surprised if the wrong Court was down to DCBL}. I see you said "till the next time" but I am guessing you will be avoiding private patrolled car parks for a while.🙂
    • It is extremely disappointing that you haven't told us anything about the result of the hearing. You came here at the very last minute and the regulars - all unpaid volunteers - sweated blood trying to get an acceptable Witness Statement prepared in an extremely short time. The least you could have done is tell us how the hearing went, information invaluable for future users. Evidently not.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Took DCA to court for invoices in responding to their claim - Judge broke the rules ?


1099OID
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2575 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi All, a few back ground notes.

 

I bumped into a friend who I had not seen for a number of years due to moving out of the area.

We reminisced of days gone past when he told me that he had just been in court for a hearing to get his invoice paid of a debt collection company (DCC) who had never produced any documentation to back their claim up.

 

he sent them a unilateral contract based on performance.

If they sent him evidence to back up their claim then this would be outside the unilateral contract and would not be chargeable.

Send him anything else then it will be charged.

 

he put in clam into their court for breach of contract non-payment of invoices.

the debt collection company put a defence in and my friend put in an order to have their defence struck out due to no reasonable ground of success and a hearing date was set.

 

Once in the court room the solicitor from the DCC motion the judge to hear the defence first.

My friend said his should go first but the judge over ruled him, and said he wanted to hear the DCC first.

The solicitor did not use what was in his defence pack but made broad statements in general and not specifics of their defence.

 

When my friend got the chance to start his presentment he was cut short by the judge and not allowed to continue.

The judge turned the hearing into a trial.

 

He then summed up the case on what he believed the DCC was thinking not on performance of the contract.

If he had been given the chance to put his case he would have destroyed the defence.

 

He want to ask for a new hearing due to what had happened but he is looking for the CPR rules that judge did not follow so he can have a chance of a new hearing or appeal.

 

can you help.

What rules were not followed by the judge which would allow a new hearing or appeal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps the Judge was correct.

I can't see that someone in this position can issue a unilateral contract based on performance.

 

Your friend received an allegation of a debt and had rights to make the debt company prove the debt was owed at the amount stated.

 

Your friend then issues this unilateral contract and then issues a court claim, which was always going to fail.

 

The Judge has to examine whether the claim made has any legal basis and listen to the defence first if they believe the claim made is not correct. It appears that your friend has not established a legal basis enough to satisfy him or her that it was worth listening to your friend.

 

Perhaps your friend can join CAG and post up details of the claim made ( exact wording)

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Freeman of the land twaddle

 

 

you'll always lose.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

charging DCA's for responding to their letters

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The DCC are trying to enforce a bilateral contract.

do we not have the same right to enter in to contract with anyone .

can you show the law that says we have to work for free.

 

if you don't won't contract with me don't send me anything.

if you send me anything other than the prof then it is a greed you wish to take up my time to inspect and give feed back on the letters sent which is chargeable.

 

do we not enter into contacts in every day life,

is this site not full of problems of unilateral contracts being enforced on them by performance. E.G private car parking charges.

 

The DCC who has bought the debt which has been some time will not take my friend to court.

he would be happy for them to do so.

 

i can not publish the contract as it is not mine to do so but after reading it it is very good.

if he was allowed to challenge the statements made by the solicitor they would not hold water.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crikey they still drag out this Freeman of the land garbage.

 

You are aware i take it what makes a contract legally enforceable, as in an invitation to treat??

 

It is about time this sort of canker was removed and needs a good dose of chlorine

 

Notice to the unwise, have a nose at the Judge Wakesman cases And the Law of Property Act

Edited by obiter dictum
Link to post
Share on other sites

http://news.sky.com/story/victory-for-man-who-took-cold-caller-to-court-10465871

 

i understand that they paid up before going to court but it is a simple unilateral contract.

they were told not to bother him and they kept ignoring him and in the end he build them for his time.

 

my friends contract i am happy to full fill any legal obligation I may have on the proof of your claim etc.

proof no charge any other letters are chargeable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The DCC are trying to enforce a bilateral contract. do we not have the same right to enter in to contract with anyone . can you show the law that says we have to work for free. if you don't won't contract with me don't send me anything. if you send me anything other than the prof then it is a greed you wish to take up my time to inspect and give feed back on the letters sent which is chargeable. do we not enter into contacts in every day life, is this site not full of problems of unilateral contracts being enforced on them by performance. E.G private car parking charges. The DCC who has bought the debt which has been some time will not take my friend to court. he would be happy for them to do so. i can not publish the contract as it is not mine to do so but after reading it it is very good. if he was allowed to challenge the statements made by the solicitor they would not hold water.

 

Just because someone sends out a contract, it does not mean the recipient has to agree to it or respond in anyway. This is why the parking on private land claims are complicated, because of signs put up trying to snare the driver or car owner into a contract. If you try to impose a contact on someone, when they have had no choice about it, then you will run into difficulty. People have won court claims based on a case of harassment over a long period.

 

If a debt company buys a debt, they are taking over the contract from the original creditors and have rights to issue a court claim. Of course it is the right of the debtor to issue a defence against the claim received. Sometimes the debtor wins and they don't have to pay the claim.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

totally different thing

 

 

thought you'd have learned not to follow fomtl twaddle last time

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?430932-Authenticity-of-court-orders-FOTL-twaddle

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't sue someone just because they have sent you unwanted documents or invoices. That is not an agreement to enter into a legally binding contract.

 

Frankly I think your friend would be lucky to escape an order requiring him to pay the defendant's legal costs.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

drop the claim now

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All, a few back ground notes.

 

I bumped into a friend who I had not seen for a number of years due to moving out of the area.

We reminisced of days gone past when he told me that he had just been in court for a hearing to get his invoice paid of a debt collection company (DCC) who had never produced any documentation to back their claim up.

 

he sent them a unilateral contract based on performance.

If they sent him evidence to back up their claim then this would be outside the unilateral contract and would not be chargeable.

Send him anything else then it will be charged.

 

he put in clam into their court for breach of contract non-payment of invoices.

the debt collection company put a defence in and my friend put in an order to have their defence struck out due to no reasonable ground of success and a hearing date was set.

 

Once in the court room the solicitor from the DCC motion the judge to hear the defence first.

My friend said his should go first but the judge over ruled him, and said he wanted to hear the DCC first.

The solicitor did not use what was in his defence pack but made broad statements in general and not specifics of their defence.

 

When my friend got the chance to start his presentment he was cut short by the judge and not allowed to continue.

The judge turned the hearing into a trial.

 

He then summed up the case on what he believed the DCC was thinking not on performance of the contract.

If he had been given the chance to put his case he would have destroyed the defence.

 

He want to ask for a new hearing due to what had happened but he is looking for the CPR rules that judge did not follow so he can have a chance of a new hearing or appeal.

 

can you help.

What rules were not followed by the judge which would allow a new hearing or appeal.

 

 

Sounds like the Judge made the correct decision to me.

 

How would you friends have "destroyed" their Defence please?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So your *friend* following receipt of the defence made an app to strike out the defence & summary judgment. If all this is even true then I'd say your friend was very lucky to escape hefty costs on the indemnity basis.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he chose to ignore this thread yesterday when he posted thanks. SOme people sadly cannot be helped or see reason.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...