Excel/BW claimform - PCN cavendish retail park in keighley on 10/04/2014 **Discontinued + Costs**

[ericsbrother]

of course they want mediation, that way they think you might settle with enough of an offer to pay their fees, sod the parking co.

 

When you say no they have to send more time and money continuing and they know that their chances of winning a bean have dropped massively.

 

 

Every claim they lose means that they are less likley to get hired for the next one.

 

 

Gladstones used to have the field to themselves in IPC matters as they are the same people in a different frock

but Gladdys screwed up enough claims by being lazy and useless that they lost business, mostly to BWL.

 

 

They will be falling out of favour soon so who next?

Miah's?

Maybe that nice Mr Shiner of PIL will avoid prison and as he is bankrupt will be gagging for a bit of work, cash only, no questions asked..

[Kaffee]

Received a letter today saying it's been transferred to my local court. Any idea roughly how long it takes to get a date?

Cheers kaffee.

[ericsbrother]

that depends on how busy your local court system is.

 

 

Some can give you a date that is about a month ahead,

some are nearly a year away and you could end up waiting nearly half of that to actually hear anything.

 

 

Whatever it is make sure that you obey the other instructions in the allocation as far as getting your paperwork into court and exchanged with the other parties on time

(make sure it is n ot early or they will use what you have to say in thier evidence),

 

 

file on the last day possible and they will most likely file late because they were waiting for you and hoping that you did it wrong.)

[dx100uk]

and just because it says its been transferred

doesn't actually mean it WILL get to court.

they could cut n run at any point till the day of the hearing,.

[Kaffee]

Hi guys.

I've received a letter with my court date.

End of august.

 

 

Also it urges me to do the mediation which I know you advise not to do.

 

 

It was one of the dates I specified that I couldn't do as I'm on holiday but it's not too far away

Cheers kaffee

 

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated

[ericsbrother]

no to mediation,

it wont count against you for saying that it isnt applicable or you arent going to waste your time on it .

 

Now, you need to adhere to the court set deadlines for exchanging paperwork but dont be in a hurry to send anything in early.

 

 

The day before the last date is plenty soon enough as that means the bandits wont be able to copy your homework.

 

 

In the meanwhile you should consider the wording of their claim and ask for the matter to be struck out under CPR 16.4 (read it)

 

 

read up on this elsewhere,

sometimes you get a case management order that makes both parties show their hands to the court and this is usually enough to get companies like BWL to get it wrong as they dont expect to have to actually do any work for their money.

[Kaffee]

Hi

I don't know if this has any bearing on my case but all the signs cameras and payment machines have been taken out of the car park for the time being. I've been informed that they are installing new ones at the carpark but now with a two hour free time limit. I'm going to take some pictures of the car park without any signs and with the new signs when/if they go up.

Kaffee

[ericsbrother]

good, as you say pictures of both states. Also ask the local council if planning has been sought/enforced for this. Excel loses many claims over thier rubbish signage

[Kaffee]

Trying to upload a picture but keep getting this. Any ideas??

 

The following errors occurred:

 

IMG_2735.JPG: Please do not

[dx100uk]

follow the upload

[Kaffee]

This is a picture of the new signs at the car park. It is now free for 120 minutes and is managed by G24.

image 8.pdf

[Kaffee]

This is my Initial W.S less all the references to other cases;

 

The facts in this statement are true to the best of my knowledge.

 

The claim for £250.32 issued by the claimant is denied in its entirety for the following reasons:

 

1/ The claimant has failed to follow procedure by not providing a reply to my CPR 31:14 request dated 26/03/17 for the disclosure and production of verified and legible copy of documents listed as follows:

 

a) Excel have failed to show they have the authority to enter into contracts and to make civil claims in their own name by showing sight of the contract they have with the landowner that assigns such rights to them. The defendant does not believe that Excel have a locus standi in this matter

 

b) Proof of planning permission granted for signage/ANPR cameras etc. under the Town and County Planning Act 2007

 

c) Copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from Excel Parking Services Ltd. And B.W.Legal to the defendant that they intend to rely on in court.

 

2/ The driver on the day may have entered an incorrect registration number at the time due to them previously owning the same car for several years under a different registration. A request dated 28/03/17 has failed to provide a list of registration plates entered on that day

 

3./ The defendant is under no legal obligation to disclose who the driver of the vehicle was at the time of the alleged contravention.

 

4./ The claimant has also inflated their claim which is for a legal charge that cannot be recovered in a small claims court. CPR 27.14 refers.

[Kaffee]

Everything has been submitted. Received the WS from BW.

Case is 2 weeks today so will report back the weekend after that.

Kaffee

[ericsbrother]

this is a G24 sign so you need to demand to know more about their contract and its expiry because obviously this is a different company.

 

You should be able to make hay with this as they wont be able to show that the signage is as they said it was.

 

You will find that they will try and claim that such and such signs were present and probably show a picture of a random sign or even a computer mock up of a sign but not the actual signs in situ.

 

Read up on "rights of audience" as well, take a copy of the law on this and challenge whoever turns up to show their credentials as a solicitor or employee of Excel.

 

BW tend to use cheaper local firms rather than attend and these companies send a paralegal, who has no right of audience so cannot say anything, question you etc.

Get that in before the judge lets then start their spiel.

 

If they are a solicitor you ask for their SRA number and check it on the solicitors roll.

The argument they work for a firm that has been instructed doesn't wash, even if Excel employed them

 

unless someone from Excel turns up they have no right to say a dicky bird and if an Excel bod is there then the rep is a lay rep, not a legal rep.

Edited August 18, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras

[Kaffee]

Hi guys.

Court day was today. Took 2 hours all together. Time flew by.

 

Tried the right of audience argument straight away but the judge was happy with the agent as she was a solicitor.

 

The signs were fine.

The dates they could charge from were 2010 for 7 years so they were valid.

 

They had followed POFA apparently

 

The only thing they couldn't produce,

which I asked for,

were the registration numbers entered that day, - some were missing.

 

Therefore it is now adjourned for a few more weeks while they search for the info.

I asked for expenses for messing me about and the judge awarded me £43.50 so that was a nice touch.

 

Their solicitor approached me after to see if I wanted to settle out of court, to avoid the hassle of coming back.

I asked her to make me an offer.

They were supposed to ring the agent back with an offer in 10 mins but i'd had enough and left.

 

So I now await the details they couldn't find??

 

The Judge was really nice by the way.

 

Kaffee

[ericsbrother]

they had follwed the POFA apparently?

according to who?

Did you take a copy of their NTK and the POFA with you to show where it wasnt being followed.

If not you had better print it off and take it with you next time.

 

What about the planning law?

have you challenged them on that and if they have no PP they are committing a criminal offence and you cannot enter into a criminal compact

so no contract to consider. Again, you need to take copies of the Town and Country Planning Axt 2007 with you and refer to it.

 

 

They will try and claim that it is "deemed consent" by virtue of being "informational"

Well it is an ADVERTISEMENT of a unilateral contract so not in the same class as a fire exit sign or a bus stop.

Take a copy of the Mansfield case with you to show that at least one council takes this seriously and that PE have lost a claim because of it.

 

Also you have to challenge every penny they are claiming,

the only amount than can be due is the original £90 (or whatever)

and the court filing fee plus the travel costs for the day.

they have added on unlwful extras so you must fight them.

 

These things tend not to win you the argument in isolation

but combined make it enough to doubt the truth behind the claim

and where it is a matter of "he says, she says"

your version will be preferred..

[Kaffee]

Cheers EB

 

Yes. followed POFA according to the Judge.

We went through the NTK on the day but i'll have a closer look in the meantime.

 

Never got to the planning permission as I raised the registration thing beforehand. I'll mention it next time if needs be.

 

Never got to the breakdown of money claimed either so will also bring that up.

 

Guess what.

I've had an email from BW saying if I pay them £100 they'll drop the claim (must be desperate!).

They've given me 7 days to respond (or not)!!

 

Regards

Kaffee

[ericsbrother]

does the letter say "without prejudice"?

 

Even if it does you can use it against them as they are too late for such communications not to be considered as evidential.

 

take it with you to show that the claimant clearly acknowledges that their claim is for a ficticious amount ( for the reasons I poorly explained here)

[Kaffee]

It says

Without prejudice save as to costs

I'll take it with me. Keep up the good work

Kaffee

[ericsbrother]

you will need to explain why the amount claimed should only be the £90 or so on the original ticket.

That menas understanding the difference between a contractual amount and monies due for a breach of contract.

 

However, if they are suing you as the keeper ( how else did they get your details other than DVLA database ]

 

then they cant start adding other amounts hidden in a contract you were not party to,

just the simple bit allowed by the POFA.

 

That should also be part of your writings on the use of the POFA to knock their claim back

 

It also menas that even if you lose you only have to pay the original £90 plus the £50 for their rentasuit for the day

who you will challenge the credentials of under the rights of audience legislation

which you are also taking copies of to court so they dont send a roving paralegal to keep the costs down read up on it

[Kaffee]

[Kaffee]

Hi guys

VICTORY!

Received a letter today

" by way of service our clients notice of discontinuance" which has also been filed at court.

 

 

that's the end of that.

A part of me it's a little disappointed that I'm not going back to court for round 2 but glad it's over.

 

A huge thanks to ericsbrother, dx100 and others.

 

 

The advice was greatly appreciated and invaluable although at times a little confusing.

I've learnt lots about parking law which I hope to never have to use again!!

 

Good luck to everyone else in dispute.

 

 

I'll be making a donation to this great site as I'm actually financially better off with my costs awarded

Thanks again

Regards

Kaffee x x x

[dx100uk]

titled amended

 

 

thanks for the donation

[ericsbrother]

what was the hearing date?

 

 

Check with the court that the letter has been received and costs ordered rather than them just telling you somehting and trying their luck in your absence

[Kaffee]

The original hearing date was 2 weeks ago 31/8/17.

This was adjourned after an hour as they had 2 weeks to come up with some more evidence which I requested

-the deadline of which was today.

 

 

I'll still check with the court though.

 

 

Also,I have already received a cheque from them.

 

Kaffee