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Jayden94

PCN at Charge Certificate stage about to enter Order of Recovery stage

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Hi all,

 

Wondered if anyone could help as this has been puzzling me for a while.

 

 

I had a query regarding when a PCN from a local authority/council reaches charge certificate stage and they ask for whatever payment it is say that if it is not paid by xxx they will proceed to issue an order for recovery.

 

 

I understand this comes with an option to submit a witness statement saying that you did not receive the initial Notice to owner and can possibly have the fine brought back down to its actual cost if you are guilty of the offense...

 

 

I don't understand how that would work if one was so select they didn't receive an Notice to Owner?

 

What proof would someone have that they did not receive it and couldn't the council just shrug it off and reject it immediately?

 

 

Then forcing bailiffs on you or something more serious?

 

Any help/info would be appreciated.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jayden

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Was the original PCN served on your car or was it a cctv PCN served by post?

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Hi,

 

They said it was served on my car but I didn't know about it nor have one on my car (whether someone came and pulled it off for their own use, I have no idea) until a letter through the door asking for more, Obviously as the timeframe for paying the discounted amount had closed.

 

Regards

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Hi,

 

They said it was served on my car but I didn't know about it nor have one on my car (whether someone came and pulled it off for their own use, I have no idea) until a letter through the door asking for more, Obviously as the timeframe for paying the discounted amount had closed.

 

Regards

It's no help just saying ' a letter'. Was this the Notice to Owner or the Charge certificate

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If I'm honest I do not remember, I just recall receiving a letter stating I now owed more money than the original £65 or what the cost of the PCNs are and that I had xxx amount to pay it before they proceed.

 

I'm sorry for not being able to be clearer... I think this was the charge certificate.

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Was the amount demanded by that letter £130 or £195

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I am being charged £195 now, If i recall it was them reminding me I had missed the period to pay the discounted fee and owed them the whole fee of £65 or so?

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Just to be clear.

You received a 'letter' reminding you you had missed the discounted period.

You now have a different letter demanding £195

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Yes sir

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Then the first letter was the NtO, which it seems you ignored, and the second letter is the Charge Certificate.

 

Essentially this means you can't file a witness statement claiming that you didn't receive the Notice to Owner, since it appears you almost certainly did.

 

The only thing you can do now to stop things progressing to bailiffs, which will increase the demands to £500+, is

to pay £195 asap

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I thought the next stage was order of recovery which would amount to £203?

 

I am not financially fit at all to pay any of that back currently and I am pretty sure I didn't receive any NtO. Why can I not select on the witness statement that I didn't receive it.

 

In addition to that I was broken down hence why my car was pushed into that zone, I even have paperwork proof of my car battery's faulty nature and the amount of times I have broken down due to it, Can that not prove any innocence?

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I thought the next stage was order of recovery which would amount to £203?

Correct

 

I am not financially fit at all to pay any of that back currently and I am pretty sure I didn't receive any NtO. Why can I not select on the witness statement that I didn't receive it.

Because essentially you would be lying. You clearly remember receiving a letter increasing the penalty. That was the NtO.

 

In addition to that I was broken down hence why my car was pushed into that zone, I even have paperwork proof of my car battery's faulty nature and the amount of times I have broken down due to it, Can that not prove any innocence?

 

Breakdowns can be used as grounds for appeal when the breakdown is unforeseen.

Your battery was is such poor condition that you had broken down many times previously, so could hardly be unforeseen.

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If I received anything that mentioned the words Notice to Owner I would have handled it, I honestly do not recall it at all hence why I was considering saying I did not receive it, thats why I started the thread to ask what stops them from just saying "yes we did deliver an NtO and shrugging me off, if so what happens after, they continue to issue an OfR?

 

Thanks again

Edited by Jayden94

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if so what happens after, they continue to issue an OfR?

Yes, and if after 21 days it's not paid, bailiffs will be instructed and their fees of £75 compliance fee and £235 attendance fee will be added to the £203

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So do you mind me asking, What stops them from just rejecting everyones Witness Statements flat out seeing as no one can really prove they never received an NtO?

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Nothing really, other than the witness statement is a sworn statement of truth, and you are liable to proceedings of contempt of court if you sign it knowing it to be untrue.

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Ok, So it will most likely be rejected, Because I have no proof I didn't receive it and they don't but it will allow them to reject it and still retain maximum payment from me...?

 

Are there any ways payment plans can be made for those like myself who simply cannot afford that sort of payment?

 

Thank you again, Much appreciated.

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If you honestly can't remember receiving an NTO (you only remember a 'letter') then you can file witness statement in good faith saying you didn't receive it.

 

They are normally accepted as a matter of course if submitted in time.

 

This situation highlights the futility of ignoring PCNs. The best outcome will be a new NTO and you're back in the appeals process. Better to have appealed to begin with...

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Alright, I will file one then.

 

Sorry when you use the terminology "as a matter of course" meaning they expect everyone to file one and those who get it in on time are accepted?

 

But yes agreed, Should have been handled at appeal stage a long time ago.

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Just to clarify.....if a witness statement is made in time (received by the court within 21 days of the Order for Recovery being served) then a council is given no opportunity to object to your witness statement and the default position is that the court accepts the statement and revokes the Order for Recovery and Charge Certficate. It is only if the statement is received by the court out of time (more than 21 days after the Order for Recovery was served) that a council is given opportunity to object.

  • Haha 1

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Could not have made it any clearer.

 

Thank you. One question

 

Once it is reverted to NtO stage and they re-issue it can I then appeal for whatever reasons I have for receiving said PCN?

 

Regards

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Yes if they serve a new NTO you can make representations and go to adjudication if they reject your representations.

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Would my car breaking down and its faulty nature of the battery be solid enough to not be rejected?

 

I have proof of various other times I have broken down to prove how faulty it is but not that instance

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Usually where a breakdown is claimed the council will require evidence such as a garage invoice or if you fixed it yourself, receipts for new parts. invoice or receipt dates will need to be the date of the contravention or thereabouts.

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