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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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Jayden94

PCN at Charge Certificate stage about to enter Order of Recovery stage

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Hi all,

 

Wondered if anyone could help as this has been puzzling me for a while.

 

 

I had a query regarding when a PCN from a local authority/council reaches charge certificate stage and they ask for whatever payment it is say that if it is not paid by xxx they will proceed to issue an order for recovery.

 

 

I understand this comes with an option to submit a witness statement saying that you did not receive the initial Notice to owner and can possibly have the fine brought back down to its actual cost if you are guilty of the offense...

 

 

I don't understand how that would work if one was so select they didn't receive an Notice to Owner?

 

What proof would someone have that they did not receive it and couldn't the council just shrug it off and reject it immediately?

 

 

Then forcing bailiffs on you or something more serious?

 

Any help/info would be appreciated.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jayden

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Was the original PCN served on your car or was it a cctv PCN served by post?

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Hi,

 

They said it was served on my car but I didn't know about it nor have one on my car (whether someone came and pulled it off for their own use, I have no idea) until a letter through the door asking for more, Obviously as the timeframe for paying the discounted amount had closed.

 

Regards

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Hi,

 

They said it was served on my car but I didn't know about it nor have one on my car (whether someone came and pulled it off for their own use, I have no idea) until a letter through the door asking for more, Obviously as the timeframe for paying the discounted amount had closed.

 

Regards

It's no help just saying ' a letter'. Was this the Notice to Owner or the Charge certificate

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If I'm honest I do not remember, I just recall receiving a letter stating I now owed more money than the original £65 or what the cost of the PCNs are and that I had xxx amount to pay it before they proceed.

 

I'm sorry for not being able to be clearer... I think this was the charge certificate.

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I am being charged £195 now, If i recall it was them reminding me I had missed the period to pay the discounted fee and owed them the whole fee of £65 or so?

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Just to be clear.

You received a 'letter' reminding you you had missed the discounted period.

You now have a different letter demanding £195

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Then the first letter was the NtO, which it seems you ignored, and the second letter is the Charge Certificate.

 

Essentially this means you can't file a witness statement claiming that you didn't receive the Notice to Owner, since it appears you almost certainly did.

 

The only thing you can do now to stop things progressing to bailiffs, which will increase the demands to £500+, is

to pay £195 asap

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I thought the next stage was order of recovery which would amount to £203?

 

I am not financially fit at all to pay any of that back currently and I am pretty sure I didn't receive any NtO. Why can I not select on the witness statement that I didn't receive it.

 

In addition to that I was broken down hence why my car was pushed into that zone, I even have paperwork proof of my car battery's faulty nature and the amount of times I have broken down due to it, Can that not prove any innocence?

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I thought the next stage was order of recovery which would amount to £203?

Correct

 

I am not financially fit at all to pay any of that back currently and I am pretty sure I didn't receive any NtO. Why can I not select on the witness statement that I didn't receive it.

Because essentially you would be lying. You clearly remember receiving a letter increasing the penalty. That was the NtO.

 

In addition to that I was broken down hence why my car was pushed into that zone, I even have paperwork proof of my car battery's faulty nature and the amount of times I have broken down due to it, Can that not prove any innocence?

 

Breakdowns can be used as grounds for appeal when the breakdown is unforeseen.

Your battery was is such poor condition that you had broken down many times previously, so could hardly be unforeseen.

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If I received anything that mentioned the words Notice to Owner I would have handled it, I honestly do not recall it at all hence why I was considering saying I did not receive it, thats why I started the thread to ask what stops them from just saying "yes we did deliver an NtO and shrugging me off, if so what happens after, they continue to issue an OfR?

 

Thanks again

Edited by Jayden94

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if so what happens after, they continue to issue an OfR?

Yes, and if after 21 days it's not paid, bailiffs will be instructed and their fees of £75 compliance fee and £235 attendance fee will be added to the £203

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So do you mind me asking, What stops them from just rejecting everyones Witness Statements flat out seeing as no one can really prove they never received an NtO?

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Nothing really, other than the witness statement is a sworn statement of truth, and you are liable to proceedings of contempt of court if you sign it knowing it to be untrue.

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Ok, So it will most likely be rejected, Because I have no proof I didn't receive it and they don't but it will allow them to reject it and still retain maximum payment from me...?

 

Are there any ways payment plans can be made for those like myself who simply cannot afford that sort of payment?

 

Thank you again, Much appreciated.

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If you honestly can't remember receiving an NTO (you only remember a 'letter') then you can file witness statement in good faith saying you didn't receive it.

 

They are normally accepted as a matter of course if submitted in time.

 

This situation highlights the futility of ignoring PCNs. The best outcome will be a new NTO and you're back in the appeals process. Better to have appealed to begin with...

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Alright, I will file one then.

 

Sorry when you use the terminology "as a matter of course" meaning they expect everyone to file one and those who get it in on time are accepted?

 

But yes agreed, Should have been handled at appeal stage a long time ago.

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Just to clarify.....if a witness statement is made in time (received by the court within 21 days of the Order for Recovery being served) then a council is given no opportunity to object to your witness statement and the default position is that the court accepts the statement and revokes the Order for Recovery and Charge Certficate. It is only if the statement is received by the court out of time (more than 21 days after the Order for Recovery was served) that a council is given opportunity to object.

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Could not have made it any clearer.

 

Thank you. One question

 

Once it is reverted to NtO stage and they re-issue it can I then appeal for whatever reasons I have for receiving said PCN?

 

Regards

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Yes if they serve a new NTO you can make representations and go to adjudication if they reject your representations.

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Would my car breaking down and its faulty nature of the battery be solid enough to not be rejected?

 

I have proof of various other times I have broken down to prove how faulty it is but not that instance

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Usually where a breakdown is claimed the council will require evidence such as a garage invoice or if you fixed it yourself, receipts for new parts. invoice or receipt dates will need to be the date of the contravention or thereabouts.

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