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    • Name of the Claimant ? Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank   Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 20 Nov 2019    Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total) - XX + 19 = 08 Dec 08 Dec + 14 days = 22 Dec 19   ^^^^^ NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING THE TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN THE COUNT [example: Issue date 01.03.2014 + 19 days (5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 19.03.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2014] = 33 days in total    Particulars of Claim The defendant owes £25k (debt under a credit card agreement with ADCB dated xx/08/2014 despite formal demand for payment of the debt the defendant has failed to pay and the claimant claims £25k and also claims interest thereonpursuant to section 69 of the country court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to £2000.   What is the total value of the claim? £27900   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes - left Dubai   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No   Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After - Aug 2014   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Representative of bank visited at my place of work with all documentation.   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? Not sure - Can’t see it on Clearscore (Equifax), only have basic Experian app (not Credit Expert).   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Note sure; don’t think so. Moriarty claim to have “been instructed on behalf of ADCB”   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No; only had a letter, then a Final Demand, then the Claim Form and another letter )all from Moriarty)   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No   Why did you cease payments? I was made redundant so had to leave UAE to return to UK. Despite me advising  ADCB’s ‘agents’ (DCAs etc) I had no savings, couldn’t find any work nor borrow money to make repayments and was presently in a DMP, I was requested to make a payment as a “good faith” gesture and then they would agree that the sum would not accrue any further interest and subsequently enter into an “affordable agreement”.   Despite my intention to offer any possible solution that I could manage - e.g. merging into my DMP - ADCB were not interested and it reached an impasse.   The payment I did make incurred high charges (SWIFT payment) so I requested if I could pay by card or a method that would not incur high charges. I also offered to agree to % of any future income earned as well as a regular affordable sum. I was advised this would be possible, but all promises made to me proved to be false and so despite me communicating my situation to ADCB all I was offered was to enter into an agreement that I could not afford or ‘final settlement’ that I also could not afford. In addition to this, I’ve had all sorts of obfuscation, misrepresentation and false promises - esp. relative to Central Bank Listing, police case and suchlike -  that I was only promised would be “cleared up” should I make payment. So the situation reached impasse - I wasn’t getting any sense or manageable proposals and I certainly couldn’t afford to keep paying the amounts suggested (especially incurring £20+ charges each time).   What was the date of your last payment? Jul 16   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? ADCB didn’t seem interested in the litany of  questionable methods employed by their representatives - e.g. misrepresentations, fraud, deceit - and my suggestions of possible solutions (DMP or % of future income) were ignored, rather they just kept wanting money I didn’t have to ‘hold off’.   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes - see above; I advised them I had lost my job, could not find employment, had no savings but would be agreeable to adding to my DMP OR perhaps agreeing to a payment plan on a % basis of any future income.   QUESTIONS Do I need to get a full Credit Report from Experian or Equifax (other than the apps)?  
    • I have had so much help on here in the past with Halifax and Paragon. After my win in court last october with Paragon they sold the debt to Mars Capital. I haven't had much to do with them yet but i know they are a vulture fund, they buy these loans at a cost. I want rid of it. The original loan was £35 k and paid in multiple payments to people i owed money to and some to me. Ive had high levels of arrears for at least 10 years i think . Are they adding interest to my arrears? does it go on balance - it says i now owe £54 k when i have been paying since 2007. I have high levels of chargers on there which i need to add up and ask to be deducted. If i worked out how much i had paid and offered them £12k or less are they no likely at all to take it or will they still expect £54k.  I want to offer a lump sum to get rid of it this year but there are so many issues with this loan - i SAR them back when paragon had it but i don't want to rock the boat - but if they don't have the credit agreement do courts still view this as unenforceable ??? should mars keep to the same rate that the original lender took loan out for??  I have threads on here going back years - the loan was with Advantage then to ADV2 then paragon now Mars Capital , a company called loan makers sorted out the secured loan - they were not paid by myself the fee was put on the mortgage / loan i think
    • Can I just leave it as saved and not submit or do I need to delete everything?
    • don't file yet not needed till/by 4pm tomorrow   let andyorch check things over 1st    
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Jayden94

PCN at Charge Certificate stage about to enter Order of Recovery stage

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Hi all,

 

Wondered if anyone could help as this has been puzzling me for a while.

 

 

I had a query regarding when a PCN from a local authority/council reaches charge certificate stage and they ask for whatever payment it is say that if it is not paid by xxx they will proceed to issue an order for recovery.

 

 

I understand this comes with an option to submit a witness statement saying that you did not receive the initial Notice to owner and can possibly have the fine brought back down to its actual cost if you are guilty of the offense...

 

 

I don't understand how that would work if one was so select they didn't receive an Notice to Owner?

 

What proof would someone have that they did not receive it and couldn't the council just shrug it off and reject it immediately?

 

 

Then forcing bailiffs on you or something more serious?

 

Any help/info would be appreciated.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jayden

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Was the original PCN served on your car or was it a cctv PCN served by post?

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Hi,

 

They said it was served on my car but I didn't know about it nor have one on my car (whether someone came and pulled it off for their own use, I have no idea) until a letter through the door asking for more, Obviously as the timeframe for paying the discounted amount had closed.

 

Regards

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Hi,

 

They said it was served on my car but I didn't know about it nor have one on my car (whether someone came and pulled it off for their own use, I have no idea) until a letter through the door asking for more, Obviously as the timeframe for paying the discounted amount had closed.

 

Regards

It's no help just saying ' a letter'. Was this the Notice to Owner or the Charge certificate

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If I'm honest I do not remember, I just recall receiving a letter stating I now owed more money than the original £65 or what the cost of the PCNs are and that I had xxx amount to pay it before they proceed.

 

I'm sorry for not being able to be clearer... I think this was the charge certificate.

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Was the amount demanded by that letter £130 or £195

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I am being charged £195 now, If i recall it was them reminding me I had missed the period to pay the discounted fee and owed them the whole fee of £65 or so?

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Just to be clear.

You received a 'letter' reminding you you had missed the discounted period.

You now have a different letter demanding £195

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Yes sir

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Then the first letter was the NtO, which it seems you ignored, and the second letter is the Charge Certificate.

 

Essentially this means you can't file a witness statement claiming that you didn't receive the Notice to Owner, since it appears you almost certainly did.

 

The only thing you can do now to stop things progressing to bailiffs, which will increase the demands to £500+, is

to pay £195 asap

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I thought the next stage was order of recovery which would amount to £203?

 

I am not financially fit at all to pay any of that back currently and I am pretty sure I didn't receive any NtO. Why can I not select on the witness statement that I didn't receive it.

 

In addition to that I was broken down hence why my car was pushed into that zone, I even have paperwork proof of my car battery's faulty nature and the amount of times I have broken down due to it, Can that not prove any innocence?

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I thought the next stage was order of recovery which would amount to £203?

Correct

 

I am not financially fit at all to pay any of that back currently and I am pretty sure I didn't receive any NtO. Why can I not select on the witness statement that I didn't receive it.

Because essentially you would be lying. You clearly remember receiving a letter increasing the penalty. That was the NtO.

 

In addition to that I was broken down hence why my car was pushed into that zone, I even have paperwork proof of my car battery's faulty nature and the amount of times I have broken down due to it, Can that not prove any innocence?

 

Breakdowns can be used as grounds for appeal when the breakdown is unforeseen.

Your battery was is such poor condition that you had broken down many times previously, so could hardly be unforeseen.

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If I received anything that mentioned the words Notice to Owner I would have handled it, I honestly do not recall it at all hence why I was considering saying I did not receive it, thats why I started the thread to ask what stops them from just saying "yes we did deliver an NtO and shrugging me off, if so what happens after, they continue to issue an OfR?

 

Thanks again

Edited by Jayden94

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if so what happens after, they continue to issue an OfR?

Yes, and if after 21 days it's not paid, bailiffs will be instructed and their fees of £75 compliance fee and £235 attendance fee will be added to the £203

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So do you mind me asking, What stops them from just rejecting everyones Witness Statements flat out seeing as no one can really prove they never received an NtO?

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Nothing really, other than the witness statement is a sworn statement of truth, and you are liable to proceedings of contempt of court if you sign it knowing it to be untrue.

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Ok, So it will most likely be rejected, Because I have no proof I didn't receive it and they don't but it will allow them to reject it and still retain maximum payment from me...?

 

Are there any ways payment plans can be made for those like myself who simply cannot afford that sort of payment?

 

Thank you again, Much appreciated.

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If you honestly can't remember receiving an NTO (you only remember a 'letter') then you can file witness statement in good faith saying you didn't receive it.

 

They are normally accepted as a matter of course if submitted in time.

 

This situation highlights the futility of ignoring PCNs. The best outcome will be a new NTO and you're back in the appeals process. Better to have appealed to begin with...

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Alright, I will file one then.

 

Sorry when you use the terminology "as a matter of course" meaning they expect everyone to file one and those who get it in on time are accepted?

 

But yes agreed, Should have been handled at appeal stage a long time ago.

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Just to clarify.....if a witness statement is made in time (received by the court within 21 days of the Order for Recovery being served) then a council is given no opportunity to object to your witness statement and the default position is that the court accepts the statement and revokes the Order for Recovery and Charge Certficate. It is only if the statement is received by the court out of time (more than 21 days after the Order for Recovery was served) that a council is given opportunity to object.

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Could not have made it any clearer.

 

Thank you. One question

 

Once it is reverted to NtO stage and they re-issue it can I then appeal for whatever reasons I have for receiving said PCN?

 

Regards

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Yes if they serve a new NTO you can make representations and go to adjudication if they reject your representations.

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Would my car breaking down and its faulty nature of the battery be solid enough to not be rejected?

 

I have proof of various other times I have broken down to prove how faulty it is but not that instance

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Usually where a breakdown is claimed the council will require evidence such as a garage invoice or if you fixed it yourself, receipts for new parts. invoice or receipt dates will need to be the date of the contravention or thereabouts.

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