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    • As I recall the only thing you tried telling us was based on a quote that you selectively edited by Lord James of Blackheath. You misrepresented it as a statement of fact when it was actually a question which was laughed at by his peers in the House of Lords.  We told you it was garbage, you asked us to prove it and we did.   Remember?
    • you need to realise that for every person that does come to CAG and register and tell their story...there are poss 10'000 that don't but search the interweb whereby threads that are here pop up relating to like issues they are searching upon.   Most CAG siteteam and many other registered Caggers give advice that bears this in mind and post information which not only informs the starter of a thread upon what to do, but also takes into consideration the readers from the interweb that also read the relevant advice given that might not be brave enough to register and fess up.   to that end, there is very little alternative than to appear to give 'grief' [you deserve it - tough] to a cagger should certain previous advice not have been followed.....yours is a very classic case of such. hey I've found a backdoor CCJ.   to put it bluntly, had you have followed such previous advice, you most certainly would not be in the situation you are in here now.. .so by example, not giving you grief, for future readers...………..   ...never ever move without informing a debt owner of a move of address on any consumer debt that you last used or paid within the last say 7yrs. your credit file is a major key to ascertaining that information.... .but don't just read this advice come to the consumeractiongroup.co.uk website and let us help.   lecture over... what can you do..or more importantly....what can a claimant do now they have a default forthwith judgement against you. well we can't guess.... they might simply ignore it as 1000's of people with CCJ's find out..but it becomes an issue should you wish to say get a mortgage, remortgage or further credit.   i'm not going to enter into any of that here...that's for the reader to start a thread here and seek advice on their individual situation specific to them as you have done....   so...  bearing the all of the above in mind...over to you with regard to this backdoor CCJ.   as for the other debts that you didn't action before...go read your old thread and action what appropriate advice is given there for each type of debt that has been given should you wish to avoid any further backdoor CCJ's.   dx                    
    • hello my very good helpful friend. I am afraid to say that i did not. As i did not realise the relevance of it.   Should i be doing this right now of anyone on my credit file ?   Plz don't give me grief if u have already advised me...   do i do the ccs request now to everybody in that thread ?    
    • aha busted and stupid ...no wonder you've got mixed information here. never trust anything they say ..they have a very bad reputation for stating the truth.   now can you go get your credit file please..   there are cases whereby a council on historic CTAX debts do go for a county court CCJ, but a liability order from a magistrates court has far more clout legally than a county court CCJ and i've never heard of a court sending a bailiff out for 'multiple' CCJ collection.   me thinks he is pulling the wool here a bit and has looked at your credit file and seen CCJ's too so thought he'd chance his arm and use those as further leverage.   don't worry about the sat visit simply ignore do not answer the door if he appears. your task is too gather data at present.   credit file please..        
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skelliwag

Disputing small debt with Bailey and Bailey Enterprises DCA and court process

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Hi there,

 

Thank you all for considering my enquiry.

I will try to keep it as to the point as possible.

I have sought advice from many advice bodies and a couple of solicitors but I'm receiving conflicting information and a friend recommended I try here.

 

SUMMARY DESCRIPTION

I engaged a tradesperson for a range of works which were quoted at £1740.

The tradesperson completed some of the works over 2 days.

 

On the 3rd day, the tradesperson was late and sent an offensive message.

Based on the offensive content of the message I refused to allow him onto my property further.

 

He agreed to reduce fee based on works not completed.

He offered a reduction of £240, total £1500, which I said was not fair based on the works left to complete.

 

I paid a portion (£1240, 83%) of the fee, with a reduction of £500 from original quote of £1700 based on an average of 3 quotes from local providers for the remaining works.

 

He returned the payment and engaged a debt collection agency.

Debt collection agency has given 5 working days to pay full amount or they are taking me to court.

 

Full description and timeline below.

 

AMOUNTS

Original invoice - £1740

Tradesperson offer after reduction - £1500

Amount we paid - £1240

Amount debt collection agency is seeking - £1500 + interest of £10.23

 

QUESTIONS

1. I have told the debt collection agency I dispute the debt.

Is my best bet now just to wait until they start court process?

 

2. Am I correct in thinking, because of the amount in dispute (they want £1500, we paid £1240 which they returned, so effectively £260 in dispute), this will be considered as a small claims issue?

 

3. Were I to lose the dispute, I would be required to pay the £1500 + small amount of interest + court fee of £100-£200?

So I wouldn't have to pay his legal costs or cost of using debt collector?

 

4. Would this type of issue (full details below) be likely to go to court?

Or will it be considered on the basis of submissions?

 

5. Given we're talking so small amounts here,

I am obviously wanting to maximise value from any legal advice.

 

Would the best use of money on legal advice be to ask a solicitor who specialises in consumer issues to review my defence form, N9B?

 

Thank you very much for any advice you can give.

 

FULL TIMELINE & DESCRIPTION

28th Jan - Having found a tradesperson through an online review site I asked for a quote for some work on my property. They emailed a quote of £1740 (I'll round the figures for ease of reading).

 

30th Jan - I phoned the company and asked them to start work as soon as possible.

 

7th Feb - Tradesperson started work on the property.

 

8th Feb - Tradesperson attended the property.

 

9th Feb - Tradesperson doesn't show in the morning.

I ask where they are and am told they'll be there later.

After I have asked when they will arrive, I receive a 'pocket call' with a recording of the tradesperson where he calls *somebody* a 'f-ing bird, b-tching about when tradesperson will arrive'.

 

We speak on the phone where he considers the situation a joke and calls me a 'b-tch'.

I say I don't want him on my property anymore and he agrees to discount the fee for the incomplete work.

 

13th Feb - Tradesperson confirms work left to be completed and offers discount of £200 (total £1540).

 

14th Feb - On the advice of the Equalities service I submit a formal letter of complaint about the comments which says that no matter who he was talking about I find the comments offensive on the basis they are about somebody of my gender which violates my dignity and creates a hostile environment.

 

On the advice of Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) I say I do not consider discount fair for the work that is left to be completed and will be seeking to show market rate as part of negotiating process under the Consumer Rights Act.

 

17th Feb - Tradesperson apologises for comments and offers discount of £240 (total £1500).

 

25th Feb - On the advice of CAB I seek 3 quotes for the remaining work from local providers which show market rate to be £500. I offer tradesperson £1050.

 

3rd Mar - Tradesperson rejects offer and threatens debt collection if £1500 is not paid by 6th Mar.

 

4th Mar - I transfer £1240 (original invoice of £1740, minus £500 fair market rate) and say that is our final offer.

 

6th Mar - Tradesperson emails to say he will be returning the £1240 and engaging a debt collection agency to seek £1500 from us.

 

6th Mar - On the advice of CAB I send a formal letter questioning why he has engaged a debt collection agency when we have paid £1240.

 

11th Mar - I receive a letter from a debt collection agency demanding £1500 (plus interest of £10.23) to be paid within 5 working days, or they will begin court process.

 

13th Mar

- I speak to debt collection agency who try to debate the merits of my dispute with me.

I say we have not received any of our payment returned.

They say it was sent Friday.

I say I do not wish to discuss the issue with them and just wanted to check the address to correspond with, they end the conversation saying "see you in court".

 

On the advice of the Debt Advice Line,

I post a formal letter confirming my disputing the debt and evidencing previous correspondence.

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DCA has no legal powers at all to add anything nor take you to court.

they are NOT BAILIFFS

and have absolutely NO LEGAL POWERS at all.

 

 

name them.

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Bailey and Bailey Enterprises. In the letter they say "I must warn you that unless full settlement of £1,510.23 is received by noon of 17th March 2017 we will have no alternative other than to commence legal action to recover the outstanding debt together with such legal costs and interest as incurred and without further notice to you."

 

I've not been through this before so I am totally guessing, but I'm imaging it'll technically be the tradesperson that takes me to court, with the DCA doing the paper work for them or something? Tradesperson has said they're unwilling to "bargain" and has gone to the effort of returning the money we paid, despite it being most of what he was asking for, in order to seek the full amount through the DCA/court.

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well I cant find any registration for them on the FCA register

which legally they must be

 

but its just threats read it properly

doesn't say will. it says 'no alternative'

well they do have.. not too!!...and they cant

and no they cant represent the builder

they are not solicitors

ignore them

ignore him.

 

i'd let it got to court and get ALL your money back..

 

and stop speaking on the phone too!!

you need a papertrail

 

cant see why the agencies have not told you this

 

there are lots of builder threads here

i'll move you to that forum and you can read..


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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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and according to company house

they are dissolved..

you need to be reporting them

and why has the other lots that have helped again picked up on this

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07280907

 

id go ring the FCA NOW

and complain to them that

they are operating without a licence.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Thank you!! They're based in Kent and calling themselves 'Book Debt Management Consultants', I don't know if that makes a difference as to whether they need to be FCA registered or not?

 

Either way I'll definitely stop calling, and I'll wait for it to go to court, thank you!

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I've called the FCA, but they weren't interested to be honest. They said unless my 'debt' was part of a credit agreement they didn't have any powers to do anything. And they said that the company may be operating other services (their website talks about loan recovery) under legal exemptions and there wasn't any way for them to know!

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can we have the name from one of their letters please

no sign of either name

 

 

dx


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well, at least you know that Bailey and Bailey wont be wanting to visit a court anytime soon as they will have to explain their presence and cant, as you see.

 

As for the threats, they are noise, the builder can take action if they want, anyone can sue anyone for any reason, real or imagined but once that is challenged by the proper process the spurious ones disappear or get struck out as having no chance of success.

 

If the builder wants to risk not only losing monaey and time on a ropey claim then perhaps they wont like the idea of a counterclaim for the owrk not done.

 

Anyway, by returning the money he has sunk any real prospect of success because of something called mitigation. The best he can hope for is to try his luck and you agree to mediation, which can be binding if both parties are happy with the agreement reached.

 

Advice, let him do his worst, you have a sound defence for disputing a claim and can just as easily tick the N1 form box saying you agree you owe £xxx and dispute the rest. He can then either accept that amount or fight on and risk getting nothing. the DCA has no say in any matter whatsoever so do not respond to them at all.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.

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The letterhead says 'Bailey & Bailey Enterprises'. This is their website http://baileyandbaileyenterprises.com/. The person I have spoken with is called Wendy Bailey.

 

The letterhead nor the website gives a company number or anything.

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id be reporting them to the FCA

shame they didn't take notice of you.

 

they are unlicenced and unregulated.

 

both of which they need to be to operate in the UK.


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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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go give the ICO a ring and tell em

they should not be handing personal data at all.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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I've been searching the www for them and there seems to be absolutely no official record of them anywhere. Do I have a right to know their Companies House number? If I ask them for that information can they refuse?

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no but they don't have one..

 

 

go ring the ico


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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I think it will be a very good idea to get two independent quotes for completing the work. Once you have done that, take the cheapest of the quotes, deduct that from the price that you agreed with your original workman and that is the price that you should be paying for the work done so far.

 

I would then send a cheque for that amount with a letter explaining your calculation to the workmen. If he then wants to send the payment back to you then it's up to him.

 

If they do sue you then I would think about paying the money which you don't dispute into court and inform the court that this is the amount that was originally paid to your workmen and he refused to accept it. He has a duty to mitigate his loss and he should at least be accepting the money on account and sue you for the difference.


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Thank you BankFodder. I

 

did exactly that, so that's reassuring!

 

I got 3 quotes which came in at around £500, and made him a new offer based on that.

 

He refused, but I transferred the money (£1240 out of £1740, so minus the £500 market rate) to his account.

 

He made it clear he was returning it so that he could send a debt collector after £1500.

 

I imagine the debt collector will only take on "debts" over a certain amount which is why he returned it.

 

The difference is essentially £260.

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That's right that's them. I still can't find a registered company name/number for them on Companies House.

 

I looked up their domain registration details for their website on WhoIS, which seemed to correspond to a furniture company, but that might just be because they use one of those company secretary services which shares a location with them.

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Registrant Name: W Bailey

Registrant Organization:

Registrant Street: Unit 2 Gtec House

Registrant City: London

Registrant State/Province: Unknown

Registrant Postal Code: E15 3NY

Registrant Country: GB

Registrant Phone: +44.2085030300

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PARAGON INTERIOR FURNITURE LTD

Company number 02392638

Registered office address

Unit 2 Gtec House, Canning Road, Stratford, London, E15 3NY

 

There is a coincidence, in that one of the Directors of the Paragon company seems to be based very near to myself and the tradesperson, literally 5 minutes walk away. That Director is also a Director of a company called 'Jaggal Limited', which is described as a 'Management consultancy activities other than financial management'. Perhaps the Jaggal could be the registered company that Bailey and Bailey operate under?

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Bailey and Bailey Enterprises are registered with the Information Commissioner

Z1032211


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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