CPM Private Parking Ticket where I am the Leasholder!

[blankwall]

Hello. I really appreciate that this forum exists and I hope someone can give me some advice on how to proceed in this situation.

 

I recently received a CPM Parking ticket for the car park of the flat where I am a leaseholder. I was away at the time and the building management company had told me (in writing) that they would inform me (and all lease holders) when a new parking management company took over the car park.

 

Needless to say they didn't. They are also saying that the parking company did a mail drop explaining the new system. Apparently they did but I didn't see it, I have seen another copy and it was addressed to the occupier not the leaseholder.

 

I called the parking company and they said they had a video of someone putting something through the door which they would email to me. This still hasn't happened but I imagine it just proves they put something through the door?

 

My building management company say they will not get involved in any disputes with the parking company - I imagine this is part of the contract they have with them as in the copy of the circular that was put around the block and it says that the landowners will not get involved in any tickets. If that even legal? My lease also says nothing about parking permits. As far as I can see there must be some kind of deal where the parking company get anything they can take and the management company will now not get involved.

 

Please can I have some advice about what to do next? Has anyone been in a similar situation please?

[unclebulgaria67]

You need to fully read your lease in regard to parking rights. If they confirm that you have allocated parking righrs without any conditions, then if the landowner wants to change this, then they have to go through a legal process.

 

Have you spoken to other residents about this ?

[Oddfellow]

Does the lease for your flat mention anything about inclusion of a parking space as part of the unit?

Chances are, your lease will have supremacy of contract over any contract between the management company and CPM.

 

 

Experts here will be able to advise, but the Parking Prankster's blog has a lot of stuff on how to defend claims exactly like this. Worth a look!

[blankwall]

Hi there - thanks for your reply. The lease is over 10 years old from a time before the car park had any management / permits so it's very unlikely there was any restriction on parking rights. I'm working away at the moment but I will check with it and the other residents when I get back

[Oddfellow]

They can't just change that willy-nilly, as UB says; they have to go through a process

[blankwall]

Thanks. I'll check out the Parking Prankster. Never heard of him before.

[Oddfellow]

There is one article in particular on his blog, dating from 24 Nov 2016 which may help you establish the facts (I don't know if it will allow me to link to it, but have tried)

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

[honeybee13]

It's fine to link to the Prankster, Oddfellow.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

the usual thing is that the parking co appraoches the managing agents for the site and gives them a brown envelope in echange for thei right to manage the parking, promising they can cure every bit of trespass etc. As they dont charge a fee for their services they have to make money by finding reasons to ticket people and collect the money fro "breach of contract" matters. the problem is that most of the popel they ticket for not displaying a opermit are residents who dont have to display a permit because they own the space thy are parked in. The claim is then disputed but he parking co quotes it terms and conditions, which is all well and good apart from they dont apply to the residents. As the parking co cant make money legitimately they then continue to pursue these spurious claims to the bitter end. another reality si that they have no contract to manage because they signed up the managing agents, who dot have the authority to let them anywhere near the place but ignorance and greed overcome the law as far as they are both concerned.

However, ther have been court decisions where the judge has accepted a contract with a managing agent without question becasue "the freeholder must ahve given them the powers to delegate" when it hadnt been shown that was true at all so that is why it is strongly recommended that you consult your lease to make sure that you havethis absolutely bolted down. The parking co will fail in any claim for other reasons, one of thsoe being that BEAVIS doesnt apply so the parking co has to show a loss and as they dont pay to "manage" they cant.

Also, you need to get all of the leasholders together for a meeting and tell the MA to kick the parking bandits out if that is the general feeling and if they dont sack the MA's themselves The MA's are on a sticy wicket because they can be sued along with the parking co for their part in the harassment and breach of the DPA. Generally the freeholder doesnt want to get involved because they might end up being sued as well so they are happly to let the MA be the lightning rod for this.

[ericsbrother]

when you can tell us abotu the ticket, the date, time, what theys ay the claim is for etc. Also have they sent you a NTK through the post yet? if so what is the issue date, when did it arrive and we would like to see it to see if it is compliant with the POFA to create a keeper liability anyway. Chances are it wont and that will be another stick to beat them with

[blankwall]

Still no NTK yet.

 

I finally went through the lease - this is the only reference to anything that could be the car park:

 

"The common parts: Means all (...) access yards, roads footpaths storage areas and other areas and things (if any) included in the Estate provided by the Lessor fr the common use of Residents and their visitors and not subject to any lease or tenancy of any of the flats on the Estate."

 

Very vague and no one has an assigned space...

[ericsbrother]

so tell us about the ticket and the NTK when it arrives. We need to see it really, hide the personla stuff like name and vehicle details. WE need to see the date and time though.

The wording of the lease is probably good enough to stop anyone interfereing with that condition as they are for RESIDENTS and visitors, not some bandit with a brown envelope.

However, this will not be a quick result for you so expect to get a load of rubbish through the post from them and various ambulance chasers.

[blankwall]

so tell us about the ticket and the NTK when it arrives. We need to see it really, hide the personla stuff like name and vehicle details. WE need to see the date and time though.

The wording of the lease is probably good enough to stop anyone interfereing with that condition as they are for RESIDENTS and visitors, not some bandit with a brown envelope.

However, this will not be a quick result for you so expect to get a load of rubbish through the post from them and various ambulance chasers.

 

 

Still no NTK.

I haven't contacted them at all, should I be writing to them?

 

I can't post the image of my ticket yet I haven't posted enough!

[ericsbrother]

No you dont contact them. You probably will never contact them directly.

Who are the managing agent and who appointed them? Landowner, residents assoc?

[blankwall]

The management company is Gateway, they weren't the original managers and took over a while ago.

They were appointed by the freeholder of the block of flats.

[ericsbrother]

so the chances are that they have no right to sign up a parking co that gives away the rights of the freeholder. This means that the parking co cant make county court claims as they have no interest in the land. However, that doesnt stop many of them because most people dont know that the claims, if defended on this point is doomed to fail.

[ericsbrother]

OK pictures of the signage, pictures of the entrance to the land from the public highway etc. You should read a number of similar threads to get a feel for what happens and in what order.

[blankwall]

Do you mean gives away the rights of the leaseholders? I would imagine the freeholders in far, far away in a tax haven company structure and has no idea they even own the building.

(I do think you probably know what you are talking about, and I am very grateful for the advice, I don't want to come across as rude)

[ericsbrother]

the leaseholders own the bits inside their front door, the rest is used by them subject to the conditions expressed and by the need to access their properties.

 

Now like all things you can rent out or lend things to people and that includes land so if the owner signed a suitable managemnt contract with whoever their agents are they can create a righ for the agents to do whatever they want, including creating contracts with a bunch of chancers.

 

However, most landowners dont do that as they want to keep all maony making schemes close to themselves and dont want to create a problem that lands on their doormat so they limit the extent of the managaing agents freedoms.

 

Now, you dont have to prove that the freeholder hasnt allowed them to take root here, they have to prove there is an unbroken chain of authority and that cannot be supposed ( although some judges will believe any old nonsense trotted out by the parking co's as they have no evidence to the contrary) so that means the contract agreed with the managing agents must allow the parking co to enter into contracts and make claims in their own name.

 

This last bit is the difficult bit for the aprking co as they will ahve to prove that the managing agents have the authority themselves to sign the deal. If the agents dont have that authority then they( the parking co) cannot perform their side of thee bargain -ie they have nothing to offer for consideration. A bit like me selling you thei eiffel Tower. I can offer it to you and you may accept my offer but I cant actually hand over the deeds becuase I dont ahve the authority to do so.

 

It makes the failure of the contract a bit long winded but that is the nature of contract law, you can agree to anything but only when it is doen will you find out that it wasnt binding. That also makes the title "a professional hitman" impossible becuse you cannot enter into a contract that is based upon illegality so you can hire a hitman but they wont have any liability insurance and you wont be able to sue them when thy take your money and dont bump off your rich uncle

Edited March 27, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[blankwall]

I see!

[blankwall]

I forgot to say - they have been very liberal with the signage. There are signs on all the walls, on the way in to the car park and also on the sides of people's flats which I myself wouldn't be very happy about...

[ericsbrother]

well, they need planning permision for them and they wont have it. If there was a sign on my building it would be removed and the damage brought to the attention of the freeholder as an attack on my right to quiet enjoyment of my property. Again, it is unlikely the agents have the authority to allow someone to trash the fabric of the building

[blankwall]

You're really good at this!

There is even a large free standing sign that has been put up in the car park.

[ericsbrother]

we are agog wating for you to show us these lovely signs. Stop teasing us and reveal them. Dont mention the planning permission requirement to anyone yet, we like to hit companies with this only after they have started civil proceedings as it is then too late to apply for PP and have any claim made retrospective

[blankwall]

You'll have to wait until the weekend unfortunately.

Sorry to keep the excitement up until then...