other APOCA ANPR PCN : Slough East Railway Station Car Park..ANPR Double dipping - appeals refused..

[Ishum1975]

Summary :

I had been to a Car park which is adjacent to Rail station to drop by wife.

There were road construction, and for safety reason I decided to pull the car into a Car park, and left the site in less than a minute.

 

Exactly, at the same time, I been again to the car park, and left the site in less than a minute.

The Car park has issued a Parking charge notice by picking up images of entry on day1 and exit on day2, claiming that my car was parked for 23 hours and 59 minutes and did not pay the parking charges.

 

Parking Charge Notice issued by private car park accordance with the BPA code of practice

 

1 Date of the infringement - 1st dec

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] - 10th Jan (after 40 days of offence)

3 Date received - 13th Jan

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] no - it was accordance with the BPA code of practice

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes - Entry image of Day1 and Exit image of Day 2

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] Y – I said the fact as what happened. And also acknowledged that I was the Driver.

 

Have you had a response? The response dated 25 Jan was very simple - Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you, we must advice your appeal has been unsuccessful on this occassion

 

7 Who is the parking company? APOCA

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Slough East Car Park, Slough

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. – Yes POPLA.

 

I appealed with Popla on 8th Feb, and they have rejected on 8th Mar saying

“In terms of the technology of the ANPR cameras themselves, the British Parking Association (BPA) audits the ANPR systems in use by parking operators in order to ensure that they are in good working order and that the data collected is accurate.

 

Independent research has found that the technology is generally accurate.

Unless POPLA is presented with sufficient evidence to prove otherwise, we consider the technology was working at the time of the alleged improper parking.

 

Based on the evidence provided, I can only see one entrance and one exit for vehicle registration X. Therefore, in this case I conclude that the charge was issued correctly.”

 

In addition I’ve raised the following points:

 

“I gather that the Parking Charge Notice issued to me on 10th Jan (Notice to Keeper) does not comply the following:

 

1. The period of parking to which the notice relates to (POFA 2012, Schedule 4, paragraph 9 (2) (a) ), is missing from the Parking charge notice issued on 10th Jan, later this information was provided to me in the rejection letter

 

2. The deadlines by which the Notice to Keeper must be served, which differ depending on whether or not a Notice to Driver was issued first (paragraphs 8(5) or 9(5)) – the Parking charge notice was issued to me (Notice to Keeper) after 40 days. No notice was issued at the site.

 

3. Automatic number plate recognition (APNR) - Quality checks: before you issue a parking charge notice you must carry out a manual quality check of the ANPR images to reduce errors and make sure that it is appropriate to take action. In this instance, basic checks are missing.”

 

they responded saying

- I note the appellant’s comments however, the appellant has admitted to being the driver of the vehicle on the day in question.

 

As such, the operator does not have to rely on PoFA 2012 to transfer liability from the driver to the Registered Keeper. Therefore, I do not need to consider whether the operator has met the requirements of PoFA 2012.

 

I also mentioned that

“In case, my appeal is rejected then it will be helpful if I can be provided with the evidence that my car

was in the car park for the duration mentioned in the appeal rejection letter, the car has not left the car park on 1st Dec and entered again on 2nd Dec.

 

There are several cameras at the site to make the car secure that can help to produce more evidence.” - No response

 

I did attached my credit card statement that contains a transaction dated 1st dec that I been to Tesco Petrol station at Hayes around 8:20am but unfortunately, there is no time in the statement.

 

in addition I attached the rail ticket credit card payment ticket for both the days, but again it was my unfortunate that the print on those tickets is missing the time of transaction.

 

I picked my wife and her colleague from the Ealing broadway station on the same evening and can provide witness statement / contact details for verification.

POPLA ignored all the evidence I attached to the appeal.

 

It is very disappointing to see that these companies are making individual life so miserable,

I've already spent more than a week since 13th Jan to understand and educate myself so that I can prove that I did not park.

 

I would like to check is there anyway I can raise this complaint with APOCA, POPLA, ISPA and BPA. also, what else should I do so that they don't send me all those unwanted claim letters.

 

It will really appreciable for your suggestions and thank you in advance.

[dx100uk]

its called double dipping.

proves their ANPR system is not fit for purpose.

 

unless ericsbrother or other indicate otherwise

i'd ignore them now.

you'll get scary letters from powerless DCA's etc [they are not bailiffs]

 

but you don't ignore a claimform if one appears.

[Ishum1975]

Thank you dx for your reply.

 

Just a clarification if you can help

- Can they issue a notice based from ANPR system after 40 days of the incident? is it legal?

 

 

because Popla has ignored all those points on the basis that I was the Driver and the operator does not have to rely on PoFA 2012 to transfer liability from the driver to the Registered Keeper.

Therefore, I do not need to consider whether the operator has met the requirements of PoFA 2012.

 

Finally, why are they reluctant to check the images?

any idea what is their liability in terms how long should they hold the video of entry and exit?

because If they go to court,

can court demand the clip or they have right to say that their system has removed after certain number of days.

[dx100uk]

you filled our link in already - that's tells you the times they have...its 14 days I believe is it not?

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

 

so if it was 40 days they are stuffed

end of problem.

 

you also have proof you car was elsewhere during that period

so again total proof.

 

ignore them!!

 

 

dx

[Oddfellow]

The 14 day ANPR rule only applies if they are invoking keeper liability under POFA, doesn't it? The OP has already admitted to being the driver. The defence isn't that they aren't complying with POFA, it's that the alleged breach didn't occur!

[Ishum1975]

Yes, I agree that the defense is that the alleged breach didn't occur, but the problem is how a person can prove that the breach didn't agree. Since the notice was sent to me after 40 days, by that time the crucial evidence the CCTV image at my work place parking has been recycled after 28 days.

I've spoken to Tesco Fuel station they also store images for CCTV, later any such request will require involvement of Police etc.

 

Is it not there (APOC) responsibility to provide sufficient evidence to prove that what they are claiming is accurate?

 

Also, since you raised a interesting point - How do they know that "I was the Driver" which made them to hold the notice for 40 days? Is this still a valid point that they sent me the notice too late?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ishum1975
add another question?

[dx100uk]

wait for eric to pop up soon

[ericsbrother]

do you hold a season ticket?

if so the railway co will have a record of your travel and that will prove that you wen t to work and came home so the probability of you leaving you car in their tender care is zero.

However, that is for the future so let us consider the now.

 

No, it is not a valid point about the 40 day delay because you have identified yoursef as the driver.

If you hadnt they would have fallen at the first hurdle but you did and now they can legally pursue you despite getting the paperwork wrong because you owned up.

 

 

Theoretically they can now wait nearly 6 years before suing you and what chance of you defending yourself then?

 

 

For future reference do not respond to a private parking ticket until you have taken advice on all aspects of its issue.

 

You will be pleased to know that railway land is covered by its own byelaws and this comes under Byelaw 14.

That means it isnt " relevant land" as far as the law goes

so the parking co have no right to enforce a contract as they cannot perform to their part of it because they cant offer you anything to consider

(they wont admit that as they dont get any money then)

 

 

If you were an trespasser you can be summonsed but any FINE goes to the govt and not to the greedy parking co or even the railway co, that is why they like these little wheezes.

 

Advice on what to do next-

TBH I wouldnt waste any effort appealing to POPLA and just let apcoa run after you.

It is likely you will get threatograms from a couple of toothless dca's but they can be ignored.

 

 

If you get a lba from either apcoa or a firm of solicitors then you will have to respond and we will suggest a response but until then dont waste your ink.

 

 

Never phone or email them, in writing only.

If they email you block the email address and ensure it bounces back so they know.

Do not give them a method of harassing you for free.

[Ishum1975]

Thank you very much Eric for your reply, much appreciated!

 

In the meantime,

I've decided to share my story with media house whilst APCOA are preparing for their case.

 

 

You mentioned that "we will suggest a response" in case it goes to court

- I've already started to contact my bank for some transactions details on that day.

 

 

Is there any reference you can point me to your suggestion

- so that i can start collecting evidences based on the suggestion.

 

Thank you once again!

[ericsbrother]

how can we tell you what to say to APCOA when they havent said it yet.

 

 

Read the advice carefully,

it says best to let them waste their time and effort first.

 

 

If you write to them they will think that you are just mouthing off and will pay up after your moan so will be more determined to try and extort the money.

 

Reason I say wait regarding season ticket and proof of travel is that it will cost you £10 for the SAR and you may well ot need to spend that money

[Ishum1975]

Sure Eric! Thanks once again for your prompt reply.

 

Well I don't hold the season ticket.

I been to the site to drop my wife.

 

 

I've the copy of the payment tickets issued by the ticketing machine through a credit card for both the days.

however, the print isn't clear, time is not visible, but date is visible though.

 

 

After dropping my wife, I went to school to drop my son, then to Tesco fuel station in hayes (paid for the fuel through the credit card) and then to work in my car.

 

 

There is a CCTV where they hold recordings for last 28 days only, so I do not have access to the crucial evidence.

 

 

In the evening, I picked up my wife from Ealing Broadway station and drove to home.

[ericsbrother]

That is all good so keep the paperwork safe.

 

 

The fill up at the petrol station will be good to use IF they drag it out,

 

 

APCOA tend not to, they lost 1 claim on railway land and have dropped a number of others.

 

 

They dont want people to know they dont hawe the authority to ask you for a cup of tea let alone money for nothing