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CP Plus charge notice for parking at MOTO reading West


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Hi, I was driving back from London home to Somerset, and due to a long day pulled over to the service station to take a rest. I fell asleep in the car and stayed there for 3 hours 22 minutes.

 

They have sent me a charge notice saying I was parked over and above the time allowed without payment and have sent an £80 charge notice for this.

 

However, the notice has a photo of my car arriving, and my car leaving, but no photo of me actually being parked.

 

Surely there is no actual evidence that I was ever parked in their car park, and that I could for all intents and purposes have been driving round the car park for 3 hours.

 

Without an actual photo of me being parked on the land owned by MOTO, surely they cannot enforce this notice.

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Better to fight it on a firmer ground.

Have they sent you a notice to keeper?

If so is it fully compliant with S9 of Schedule 4 to POFA 2012.

 

Don't identify the driver to them, and if they fail to establish "keeper liability" they can be batted away.

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its an anpr capture that's how it works..

 

 

can you fill this out please

and copy N paste it back here and enter your answers

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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For tickets received through the post [ANPR camera capture] (Notice to Keeper)

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 26/02/17

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 7/3/17

 

3 Date received 9/3/17

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Not that I can see

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Only ANPR of my car driving in and driving out. No photo of car actually being parked.

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] no

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? CP Plus

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MOTO Reading West, M4

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

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Better to fight it on a firmer ground.

Have they sent you a notice to keeper?

If so is it fully compliant with S9 of Schedule 4 to POFA 2012.

 

Don't identify the driver to them, and if they fail to establish "keeper liability" they can be batted away.

 

It has my name on it, and they are saying the DVLA have identified me as the registered keeper. The exact wording is

 

"Having checked the vehicle details with the driving and Vehicle Licensing Agency ( DVLA ) we are writing to you because either you were the registered keeper at the time of parking, or the registered keeper at the time of parking, or the registered keeper has named you as the driver at the date and time of the event"

 

They categorically state however, that I was PARKED for the period in question, but have no actual photographic evidence to even say I was parked. All they have is a photo saying I drove in, and drove out. As I said above, I could have been driving for 3 hours around the car park. Surely they cannot prove that I was parked and thus a parking charge would be completely wrong under the circumstances.

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Stop focusing on a defence that might succeed, and focus on one that WILL succeed.

 

Don't identify yourself as the driver, only as the keeper.

They haven't created 'keeper liability': you wait until they are too late to send a POFA compliant "notice to keeper", THEN you point this out to them & suggest they 'jog on'.

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They can take action against the driver.

 

But they don't know who the driver is, and the keeper is under no obligation to tell them.

 

Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 sets out the circumstances in which they can make the "keeper" of the vehicle liable instead.

 

One (and only one) of the conditions is that they ask the keeper to identify the driver.

However, it is only one of the conditions (set out in para. 8 for 'tickets left on the car' and para. 9 for 'ANPR captures')

 

If they don't mention POFA and keeper liability : they can't establish keeper liability as they don't "warn the registered keeper" as required by Para 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012.

They also have to send a fully compliant notice within the "relevant period" (14 days from the parking event for an ANPR capture)

 

So,

1) Don't identify the driver.

2) once the 14 days are up tell them

i) they haven't established keeper liability,

ii) they are too late to now send a compliant NtK,

iii) they can still go after the driver but you have no obligation to identify them.

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as you've mentioned it 3 times...

they don't have to prove you parked..immaterial.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

There is a section in the letter

 

"The driver of this vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full within the time frame stipulated above. As we do not know the drivers name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should provide us with the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them"

 

So I am assuming I don't have to tell them the identity of the driver, and by their own admission they don't actually know so cannot possibly enforce this charge.

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that their signage is compliant

that they have the planning permission to put them up

that they have the legal right to pursue motorists by a signed contract with the land owner

 

 

99% of the time at most service stations they don't

 

 

get searching here and on parking prankster

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a section in the letter

 

"The driver of this vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full within the time frame stipulated above. As we do not know the drivers name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should provide us with the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them"

 

So I am assuming I don't have to tell them the identity of the driver, and by their own admission they don't actually know so cannot possibly enforce this charge.

 

I think it is beginning to sink in .........

 

The only think I would highlight is that you "could" identify the driver, not "should".

The only time you "should" is if they would be able to

1) establish keeper liability and

2) win in court,

 

And they rarely would manage both!

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we need to see the full NTK to see whether it is POFA compliant.

It has to use exact wording in a couple of places or it isnt and that would mean no keeper liability.

 

 

There is plenty wrong with CPP signage at places like this so they usually give up.

Also MoTO isnt the landowner so striclty speaking they cant assign a right they dont have to CPP.

 

The BPA code of practice allows motorists a minimum of 10 minuted grace to find a place to park, read the signs etc, get back to car and leave so if you were 8 minutes over the time on exit you can argue that you were parked less than 3 hours so no breach.

 

When we see the NTK we will suggest a range of alternative approaches,

up to you which to take but we cant offer them until we know everything possible.

 

 

Sight of the signage woud be good but appreciate that is a difficult one Usually they are badly placed, unlit, confusing etc so generally too poor to create a binding contact anyway

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