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Npower - Warrant while in credit and edited bills


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Hi guys,

 

I've got a very long and horrible compliant with Npower that I've recently pushed through Ombudsman services (O/S) and got a decision in principle but no action required on Npower's part.

 

However in the last month some rather odd information has come to light which I will get to.

 

I'd been discussing the account with a few people and one of them suggested I come here and seek advise before I take any further steps. I'm quite happy to go into the hilt on this as Npower's actions feel now like an attempt to defraud and from what I've seen I can't trust their figures.

 

I've had a look through some other peoples experiences and I can't find an issue quite like mine please bear with me and my horrible typing as there is a kicker at the end.

 

Apologies if it's a bit rambling I will tidy it as I go.

 

In Summary

 

After years of issues we finally gained access to our bills and we were shown to be in credit at a time when Npower obtained a warrant (albeit in a wrong name and wrong balance) and when I emailed Npower customer services they've been in, edited the bills and refused to acknowledge any communication aside from the twitter team. Who have confirmed I will not receive a response and been told they cannot review the matter by someone more senior or even request that said someone gets in touch with me.

 

I'm basically after a bit of direction, I'm frustrated and angry and want to take action against Npower. I've got a couple of irons in the fire on the legal side but I'm not sure I'll go down that path. I'd much prefer Npower just gave this a serious thought and they've buried their heads in the sand.

 

Basic timeline

 

Please excuse the brevity I'll tidy it up and add as I go.

 

There's a hell of a lot of information to go through so I won't be able to do so in one session.

 

I've included actions we were unaware of at the time in (()) for sake of completeness.

 

A couple of pointers - the account set up have 3 different spellings of my partners name. We've been quoted 3/4 different account numbers on our correspondence prior to the warrant.

 

 

Timeline

 

We moved into the property in late Sep 2012 - Landlord informed Npower of the change

 

We contacted Npower to set up account within a week - usual business - DD meter reading etc - quoted account number 125238378

 

Got to Christmas - no bills - contacted Npower - told of issues but that the bills would come.

 

April 13 we received a warning letter from 'Collections direct' - partner called up and again is told of issues 'linking the account' and Npower asked us again to re-set up the account. Which we do - told an pack will arrive in the post. All's fair we think.

 

August 13 - after no further communication or DD taken from Npower. We get in touch with them and again are asked to set up the account again. It ends up being in my Partners name but with the DD being taken from my account. We're told the direct debit will be circa £200.00 due to the backdating - we've no issue with this and accept. New account number issued - doesn't seem to make sense but whats the harm?

 

October 2013 - no bill but payment of £107.00 ((Start of account data on online system))

 

November 2013 - no bill but payment of £107.00. ((Invoice of £600.23 on system - never sent)) - receive a letter stating there are issues generating our bills but 'You don't have to do anything'

 

December 2013 - no payment leaves - we don't at the time notice - receive a bill under original number with apology letter, phone to discuss informed mistake made and will be corrected. ((Bills generated totaling a further £3,038.52 - giving a total of £3,632.75 in bills generated in a two week period - with approx £2k reversed out in the same period - most of these invoices are blank still - no PDF to download))

 

Jan to April 2014 - payments go out as normal still short from agreed - at this point 18 months after setting up the account we have still never received a physical or online bill. ((bill generated in March but never sent))

 

May 2014 - Payment of £464 leaves account without warning, phone up the bank and get reversed (a few days before payday no money in the account) phone up Npower told it was an auto-generated correction on the account and will be fixed.

 

At this point I don't trust Npower anymore so launch a complaint and get a compensation for breaking the DD guarantee but this took months. I asked repeatedly for both bills and an alternative way to way.

 

When I tried to sign up for the online service I received an error, I offered to pay only on production of the bills and asked if I could set up a standing order in the meantime to stop the balance getting out of hand but after a while were with the executive complaints team who started ignoring emails.

 

From June 2014 to December 2015 Npower produced 1 bill which we couldn't reconcile and a series of invoices showing on the system now.

 

We made a few payments here and there and started to get threatening letters but I kept in touch with customer services and still received no back up - bills or otherwise and they wouldn't agree a payment method with me (me suggesting - they ignoring).

 

In 2015 the bills started and they were high, we got in touch again to try and bash out a plan and eventually gave up after receiving a threatening letter and settled the balance agreed with them £1,787.02 in May 2015 in one payment out of frustration. We were getting married in the new year and didn't want this hanging over our heads and this put us under considerable financial pressure.

 

((It's very important but the bills we received hard copies at this stage of DO NOT MATCH the bills currently showing on their system. I'm loath to give the numbers out in public as Npower manually changed the numbers to suit when I contacted them but there are obvious typo's on the system.))

 

A couple of weeks after this we received a bill for £516.43.

 

We discussed the account with a rep on the phone who again couldn't give us payment options agreed it was inccorect and we waited for a bill that didn't come till Dec 15 for 1,236.14. Unfortunately we missed this and it was accidentally put to one side. Although later £479.03 was reversed out as a mistake on the account.

 

In Jan 16 they obtained a warrant and broke into our home and fitted a prepayment meter based on a human rights letter sent prior to me paying the £1,787.02. It's worth noting it took us 8-9 months to get hold of the warrant - the name on the warrant was a misspelling of my partners name and the balance quoted was £484.00 an amount that at no point on any version of our account, all of the information within it is missing and no backup was provided.

 

Now I'll admit some fault here, we were getting married and the paperwork was allegedly sent over Christmas; everything was mayhem.

 

They claimed to have verified our address with our neighbors at number 9 who, by shear coincidence are my partners parents and who do not recall anyone discussing it with them.

 

While issuing the warrant, the meter plus rep openly discussed our account with our landlord, next door neighbour and my now in-laws.

 

I received a call came home (working an hour away) and there was no paperwork at all - nothing at all - no meter card - no sign of disturbance.

 

I phoned Npower and launched a complaint which apparently went into deadlock with 48 hours.

 

We fight and fight and fight, Npower open and close the complaint to avoid O/S but eventually 5 months later things are moving.

 

In the meantime Npower has sent us some bills that are absolute nonsense all generated on 12/05/17

 

1 Bill for Gas and Electric

1 Bill for Gas - which just so happened to match our payments onto the meter

1 Bill for Gas

 

(there was also a bill of £1,307.77 generated the same day - but the PDF wouldn't download so I only have screen captures of it - this is significant I believe)

 

I had a 4 hour long argument with Npower's last ditch team where I was told all of these bills were correct at the same time - about half way through I clicked how the gas balance was essentially appearing 3 times I explained pretty thoroughly using the unit and daily rates to with a couple of pennies (part day I suggested) how the balance had been cross billed and eventually got the rep to agree they were wrong. Looking at the bills they edited the account to correct this as a later point, but I feel my point of 'how can I trust these bills?' still stands especially as the prepayment meter has never been corrected.

 

We weren't happy so pushed on with O/S

 

O/S then gave Npower 6 months to respond and basically gave a very wishy washy nothing to see here response. I pushed again and essentially had O/Services agree I was right but refused to take significant action in December last year.

 

From Jan 17 I've been paying off the account at the levels O/S suggested as I had more or less given up - I finally :whoo: get access to the online account but I consider the matter finished and don't bother to look back.

 

After getting another threatening letter (despite paying) I got in touch with customer services who basically were useless, same old arguments - back to this again I think and I plot to get the £700 or so on the account paid off so I can leave Npower as I should have done when I last had the chance (again wedding.. twas draining :violin:)

 

So, I have a thought and I have a look at the old account data and it shows that at the time the warrant was served my account was in credit by £67.63. When I paid the £1,787.02 the account was overstated by £1,303.77 and this was MANUALLY added to the bills on 12/05/16 almost exactly a year later.

 

When I queried this this Npower - they edited the account, removing the 12/05/16 bill and I believe moved it to the start of the online account.

 

It has however thrown some of the bills out of sync and the figures no longer add up and there are some typo'd amounts because the person who corrected the system messed up and more importantly the figures can now no longer add up. The account has been edited to suit an end position, I'm not all that up on consumer law but I imagine there would be laws against it. When I look at all the bills and adjustments at the start of the account I feel there are obvious mistakes on the account.

 

Now, there are about a dozen manual reversed invoice on the system - for transparency they should have reversed out the 1,303.77 and not deleted it. I only work on the commercial side of a FTSE 100 company so what do I know? Interesting in my notes from our phone call with the rep he said they could only see as far back as 2014 and denied earlier payments on our account (which are on their system)

 

How this all bypassed O/S is a mystery. I couldn't understand how Npower where given from March to December 16 to respond and we were given 2 weeks. They basically ignored three quarters of our complaint and the whole matter felt rigged and as I said we gave up. This was the despite the fact that the Gas was showing as being double bubbled on the meter account AND the earlier bill. We just gave up.

 

After reading through the account I got my taste for it back and that's what has brought me here.

 

There's a lot of detail I've missed out but it's mostly how nothing has ever added up and now I have hard evidence of these little things. But it's worth noting that even after the amendment there are still problems showing on the account particularly in the timeline to the warrant as the human rights letter they quoted was from before I paid the large balance and the balance they used against us was later reversed off as incorrect.

 

So that's my sob story.

 

I'm very open to any possible next steps even if it's just read this - talk to these people. I now want answers and Npower are refusing to acknowledge me.

 

Current plan

 

Get the balance paid off in the next few months - quicker than O/S suggested and get out of Npower.

 

I've been given a couple of solicitors to talk to but they sound expensive if I win due to the relatively low figures involved.

 

Contact the court regarding the incorrect info in the warrant more formally.

 

Send an email to Chris Thewlis as a last ditch attempt to get peaceful resolution - is this worth it?

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You don't need a solicitor. You can do this yourself and it will be a lot more satisfying – and much cheaper.

 

If you think that Npower can take you at all seriously if you don't bring the court action then you really don't understand their mentality. They are incompetent and they are dinosaurs – and mostly they don't care about you.

 

Whatever you do you need to start off by sending an SAR. I suggest that you prepare it today and send it off tomorrow by recorded delivery and accompanied by a cheque rather than the postal order so you can keep tabs on its progress.

 

I'm trying hard to read through your post and understand it all but quite frankly other than understanding that Npower are making a mess of things as usual and contradicting themselves, I don't really understand what's going on.

 

In particular, I don't understand how much you are out of pocket or alternatively how much Npower are asking you for – and at the end of the day this is the nitty-gritty of any problem.

 

What I do see is that you think that you have a plan and the by appealing to the right people you will manage to produce some kind of solution and even embarrass Npower. If I'm right, then afraid that you better have a sit down and a real read of the Npower post below and a real read about Npower over the Internet so that you get to understand what a shambles they are and how little they are likely to care about you or any complaints you make.

 

Of course they are encouraged by a limp wristed and weak ombudsman service which seems to get very little done and only makes very half-hearted decisions and never imposes any real sanctions on a person by person, case-by-case basis. Of course the ombudsman has imposed huge sanctions for general incompetence, but this doesn't seem to have worked.

 

If you want to make a bit of a difference and make them treat you seriously then it will probably have to be a county court action.

 

Read the following thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?436401-nPower-Mismanaged-account-County-Court-claim-issued-aganst-Npower

 

This case against Npower succeeded mainly because of the determination of the person who was handling the case and their energy and talent for administration and organisation. Without this, it would not have gotten so far in the end, we didn't get all the damages we wanted because at the time damages were not available for distress alone. Now that seems to have changed and if we had gone back with the same case now, we would get a better award.

 

I think the first thing to do is to send an SAR. Preparation is everything and also you will be surprised at what you find in the disclosure when it is eventually made to you – and also what has been left out. Don't expect Npower to be straightforward about providing you with the statutory disclosure. They are likely to need chasing and also what they send you will have to be double checked. Npower seem to follow their own rules and in the case which I posted above, the person who was dealing with a litigation was some kind of litigation Asst called Kenneth Bradley Smedley Davies or something very complicated. He seemed to be prepared to sign off almost anything and also he seemed to be on a personal vendetta. He seemed to think that the interests of his company were best served by simply being obstructive.

 

The judge in that case criticised the way that Npower had handled it all and I take that to be a reflection on the activities of their in-house legal department as well.

 

It would be very helpful if you could post your story again but in a simple, bullet pointed chronology that we will all understand. If you have any doubts, then type out a draft on a word processor and show it to 1 or two of your friends and see if they understand the story. If they do then we will stand a chance. If they find that they need to ask you questions and to get explanations from you then you know that you haven't done a very good job.

 

When we get a proper understanding of the situation then we will be able to give you better advice – but the SAR will be essential anyway.

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No - please post your story in another post

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Apologies my assumption was that I would be able to edit the original message to tidy it up. I’ve always had a touch of the stream of consciousness about my writing which doesn’t help but I’m great with numbers.

 

In Brief

 

After years of issues we finally gained access to our bills and we were shown to be in credit at a time when Npower obtained a warrant and installed a prepayment meter.

 

When I emailed Npower customer services they've edited the bills and refused to acknowledge any communication aside from their twitter team. Who have confirmed I will not receive a response and been told they cannot review the matter.

 

I'm basically after a bit of direction, I'm frustrated and angry and want to take action against Npower.

 

 

 

Basic timeline

 

I've included actions we were unaware of at the time in (()) for sake of completeness. I’ve tried to knock out some information for clarity.

 

A couple of pointers – the accounts set up are in 3 different names and in several different account numbers

 

Timeline

 

1) Sep 12 Account Opened in given account number but no DD taken or paperwork received.

 

2) Dec 12 We chased after we’d received nothing and we told there was an error and the bills would come.

 

3) April 13 we received a warning letter – Npower set up the account again saying it’s an issue caused by being unable to link up the account.

 

4) August 13 we chase again. Seems to get sorted this time agree to a DD of £200 to make up the shortfall – get a different account number

 

5) Oct to Dec 13 payments going out but there’s a shortfall and we don’t receive bills aside from a bill to ‘the occupier’ on the original account number. Call and told not to worry it’s been sorted.

 

6) Dec 13 ((on their system there are bills generated in a two week period in December of £3,632.75 – but we only found that out this Mar 17 – some 2k was reversed within a few weeks but there’s no substantiation))

 

7) Jan to Apr 14 payments made by dd but still short – still no bills.

 

8) May 14 payment of 464 leaves my account without warning, phoned and reversed Npower state it was a mistake so we complain and don’t get a resolution to the complaint till September and even that was after repeated badgering

 

9) We received a bill in Dec 14 which didn’t add up, we were making payments here and there but Npower were refusing any payment method other than DD.

 

10) ((Dec 14 – there are a lot of invoices showing on the system in this period which we were unaware of and now after someone has edited the account no longer tie into the account))

 

11) Feb 15 made some payments after receiving 2 largish bills generated the same day for different amounts.

 

12) Late April 15 Received a letter with a court date on for £735.00 phone and ask to settle the balance we give meter readings to be told the balance is £1787.02 we pay this anyway – we’ve been harassed for years and just want rid. ((when I contacted Npower recently this was showing in credit as attached))

 

13) ((It's very important but the bills we received hard copies at this stage of DO NOT MATCH the bills currently showing on their system. I'm loath to give the numbers out in public as Npower manually changed the numbers to suit when I contacted them but there are obvious typo 's on the system.))

 

14) A couple of weeks after this we received a bill for £516.43. We discussed the account with a rep on the phone who couldn’t explain how we’d built up a debt from this and checked meter readings again.

 

15) Dec 15) They didn’t send another bill until this point and we missed it as it was accidentally put to one side. Although later £479.03 was reversed out as a mistake on the account.

 

16) Jan 16) they obtained a warrant and broke into our home and fitted a prepayment meter based on a human rights letter sent prior to me paying the £1,787.02. – Apr 15

 

17) It took us months to get hold of the warrant - the name on the warrant was a misspelling of my partner’s first name and the balance quoted was an entirely made up figure without backup.

 

Now I'll admit some fault here, we were getting married and the paperwork was allegedly sent over Christmas; everything was mayhem we initially didn't believe we'd had anything and argued as such with Npower but we had - and none of it matches the information given to the court.

 

They claimed to have verified our address with our neighbours at number 9 who, by coincidence are my partner’s parents and who do not recall anyone discussing it with them. The way our road is laid out you would not go to number 9 to verify someone at our address - despite the numbers being very lose.

 

While carrying out the warrant, the meter plus staff openly discussed our account with our landlord, next door neighbour and my now in-laws. Data protection breach.

 

I received a call at work and came home (working an hour away) and there was no paperwork at all - nothing at all - no meter card - no sign of disturbance.

 

I phoned Npower and launched a complaint which apparently went into deadlock with 48 hours. I'm not sure all the ins and outs of how Npower behaved matters here but we've got extensive records and there are many contradictions. They also credited a bill off our account as it was incorrect - The Pre-Regent Backlog bulk closure exercise sounds familiar that's all I can say.

 

18) May 16) Npower send us bill that don’t make sense.

 

1 Bill for Gas and Electric

1 Bill for Gas - which just so happened to match our actual payments onto the meter

1 Bill for Gas

 

((there was also a bill of £1,307.77 generated the same day but not sent to us - but the PDF wouldn't download so I only have screen captures of it - this is significant as this bill is equal to the amount of credit the big settlement payment from the previous year showed on the online billing system))

 

Over a 4 hour phone argument with an Npower rep I demonstrated they were invoicing us 3 times for the same gas and they eventually admitted that. I asked how I could trust their bills and they offered no response. This hasn’t been fixed even now.

 

We weren't happy so pushed on with O/S

 

19) O/S then gave Npower 6 months to respond and basically gave no reasonable response. I pushed again and essentially had O/Services agree I was right but they wouldn’t take further action.

 

From Jan 17 I've been paying off the account at the levels O/S suggested considered the matter finished and don't bother to look back. I managed to finally after 3 years of trying got access to the online portal – great can review and pay without having to discuss with Npower anymore. Planned to get it paid off and switch.

 

20) Feb 17 – After more action from Npower I took a further look into the account and it shows that at the time the warrant was served my account was in credit by £67.63. When I paid the £1,787.02 the account was overstated by £1,303.77 and this was MANUALLY added to the bills on 12/05/16 almost exactly a year later.

 

When I queried this this Npower - they edited the account, removing the 12/05/16 bill and I believe moved it to the start of the online account.

 

It has however thrown some of the bills out of sync and the figures no longer add up. This has been compounded by some typo’s within the bill (very obvious 19 rather than 91 for example))

 

 

For transparency, they should have reversed out the £1,303.77 and not deleted it.

 

When I’ve contacted Npower about these edits they have refused to discuss them with me.

 

Summary

 

In short – they’ve edited my account to show a debt when it was showing a credit – to such a degree hardcopy bills we do have now no longer make sense.

 

They’ve left obvious edit artifacts.

 

I can’t trust their system if they can manually adjust to this degree and if it has been done intentionally this is fraud. There are clear signs of adjustment in the system going back to December 2013 and we can’t see previous to this online.

 

They took us to court at a time when their system was showing as being in credit and frankly they’ve harassed us into submission at a time when we really financially couldn’t afford it.

 

I can’t put a figure on 4 years of harassment and breaking into our house while we were in credit. I’ve spent 100’s of hours for nothing so far. The lying to obtain a warrant now looks fairly clear cut too.

 

It’s worth pointing out I do deal with commercial accounts running into the 10s of millions, often starting with less information than this and have prepped a few cases but normally if they end up in dispute I hand this off to a Lawyer who normally prevents it going to court and I’m only had to actually go a couple of times - I know very little consumer law (as do my the lawyers we use).

 

I always thought when I got access to the accounts I’d be able to piece the story together and now on review I think I have pieced together a couple of narratives.

 

Plus I’m quite happy to take them to court, just have felt unable to because of how sparse the account information has been over the years.

 

Now that they have edited the bills away from the hardcopies I have I believe I can put together a reasonable case together.

 

One of the additional actions I’m considering - although it’ll take time is to put together a timeline of meter by meter, payment by payment to give me an actual figure of what I should have paid and then chase Npower for the excess + damages for time etc in CC.

 

So our revised plan is:

 

Aiming for CC looking at Eversir’s thread a year is a reasonable timescale? Would I do this through MCOL?

 

SAR – prepping over the next week and will send as soon as it’s ready – I’m working through my notes to make sure we capture and I’d rather get it right first time – just going to bullet point some requests into the template. I realise I might not meet your timescales BankFodder but I plan on hitting them pretty hard and want to maximise the impact and there’s a few ideas floating around in my head.

 

To that end I’m reviewing the other thread – The Skelton Argument in particular looks like a nice start and I can see some similar patterns and I think the basis of parts of a claim will be similar so I’m writing the SAR to cover similar data. Incidentally both myself and my partner had treatment for stress at the height of this.

 

We’ve kept fairly solid notes over the years and discussed certain aspects of the case via email so I’ve got a solid enough account I can put forward.

 

I’m going to be in a position within a month or two to pay off all the outstanding so I plan to get the account fully up to date before I start action to demonstrate.

 

The one thing that concerns me would be if their arguments had become more sophisticated in the interim. But on the other hand I have solid evidence they’ve edited the account – numerous times, how can I trust the integrity of the account?

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You are a long way from starting a court claim.

 

There is no need to prep and SAR. Basically you just ask for everything and there's no reason why you shouldn't get off in the post tomorrow. It takes 40 days and you can be certain that Npower will take all of that and probably breach their deadline. When you get the disclosure in all likelihood it will be incomplete. Don't hang around, get the SAR off tomorrow.

 

I suggest that you start organising your file information and if you have access to the online account and start taking screenshots of everything including the artefacts that you say have been left. You need to have a complete file in your possession and not rely on online access later on.

 

The next thing you could usefully do would be to read our customer services guide and implement the advice there. It is very unfortunate that you have no recordings of the course you have been making and some of the incriminating things which have been told to you including the various contradictions and corrections. If notes of these do not appear on your SAR disclosure then it will make things a bit difficult for you.

 

Having implemented our customer services guide, I suggest that you start having further phone calls with them but this time with a view to stewing conversations in particular directions so that you can get this much useful information as possible. You may get nothing but on the other hand you may get some very useful stuff.

 

It's a good thing that you've logged the calls. That will help – especially when you get the SAR because you will be able to get a better idea as to whether any call recordings are missing. Eversir found that there were missing calls but luckily he had either logged or recorded his calls.

 

Notes are very useful to help you piece together the story but of course they are not evidence. They may be persuasive but they are not probative.

 

When you eventually get the SAR, you will need to check it very carefully. One thing that came up in Eversir's case was that multiple account numbers had been used and some of them had not even been disclosed to him. There are many aspects of your story which sound very similar to his experience.

 

It would be interesting also in the SAR to find out as much information as possible about their application to the court for a warrant.

 

Also, what evidence do you have that they have been discussing things with third parties? This is pretty serious stuff and would also be the basis for a complaint.

 

There are possibilities here of – breach of contract for failing to manage the account correctly, data protection breaches, and even possibly trespass if it could be shown that the warrant had been obtained unlawfully.

 

Let me warn you that in their defence against Eversir, Kenneth Radley Davies not only claimed that the account management was not part of the service that you are paying for, but he also saw a statement of truth to the effect that there was no duty to provide a customer with accurate billing. This is the kind of absurd troublemaking that Npower will get up to in order to escape their liabilities. They are a disgusting company and I can imagine that anyone who works for them doesn't tell the children or their friends what they do for a living.

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Bit of a pain I know, but ignoring Npower's bills for a moment...are you able to start working out what energy you've consumed over the time period (meter readings you've taken/actual Npower reads you're fairly sure are correct)?

 

Not always possible to do accurately, but if you start working out cost from units used and the tariff applicable at the time, too. This starts to build up an indication of what you might actually owe (ignoring back billing rules for the time being).

 

Would also be handy if you put together a really simple list of when readings were taken or estimated, and by who and on what date. Then a perhaps a separate list of payments you've made and on which date. Lists like this can quickly be referred to by all concerned; not having to pick out stuff from paragraphs :)

 

Good luck! It can be done!

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Of course I suppose it's not helped by the fact that a new meter has now been installed and I suppose that there is no trace all records of the old one.

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Bit of a pain I know, but ignoring Npower's bills for a moment...are you able to start working out what energy you've consumed over the time period (meter readings you've taken/actual Npower reads you're fairly sure are correct)?

 

Not always possible to do accurately, but if you start working out cost from units used and the tariff applicable at the time, too. This starts to build up an indication of what you might actually owe (ignoring back billing rules for the time being).

 

Would also be handy if you put together a really simple list of when readings were taken or estimated, and by who and on what date. Then a perhaps a separate list of payments you've made and on which date. Lists like this can quickly be referred to by all concerned; not having to pick out stuff from paragraphs :)

 

Good luck! It can be done!

 

Thank you for the reply Eversir, I must admit the little parallels between your problems and mine have filled me with a bit of confidence that I can get a positive outcome. I'm probably going to have another read when I get the chance.

 

As for the billing this is really close to what I do for a day job.

 

I've already scheduled out the timeline and bills. Now I've got access to the bills (all downloaded). I can enter and specific rates and unit readings.

 

As BankFodder says the records have disappeared for the gas meter - but we do have some contemporary readings so can get it within a realm of possibility.

 

And BankFodder, I'm going to take your advice and proceed as suggested.

 

I've been selectively probing at the twitter account already and have a list of queries I'm going to put towards them one at a time. I've been reading the advice elsewhere on the forum and will approach any phonecalls by the book.

 

I've already stripped the online account of evidence. Took screenshots on mobile, PC and then photographed the screen. Paranoid yes - but I honestly didn't expect them to just delete the error either. In fact I was explicitly told they couldn't do that.

 

I note the evidence for discussion with third parties peaked your interest. Well, 2 witnesses who will come forward but probably won't have to as they admitted it in writing, albeit in simple terms stating that as the meter plus operative didn't have specific knowledge of the figures of our account it was OK and they refused to comment further. I must confess, I didn't really know how to approach it, had a bit of an issue with the Landlord but luckily they had had a nightmare with Npower too and because we had such a good relationship they gave us the benefit of the doubt.

 

We had discussions with the Magistrates court who issued the warrants at the time as they helped us get to the bottom of where the warrant was they could/would only search by name and we spent a some time throwing random spellings of my partners name until we found one that fit. They basically wanted more information and because we didn't have access to the account we didn't have it. I think I might have what they need now.

 

Anyhow I'll set the SAR off and do a bit of research in the interim.

 

Thanks again for the help.

Edited by JumboJimbo
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It would be very interesting to get the case details of the Npower application to the magistrates court for a warrant. If you get on with the magistrates court, then maybe you could ask them what it would take to get a copy of the file. It would be better if you could do it under an FOI request because that would only take 20 days. However, if you can't do that then may be an SAR – but that would take 40 days.

 

If you can have a gentle chat with the staff at the magistrates court and get them onside – I'm sure some of them are probably Npower customers – then they may be very helpful and cooperative in telling you the best way to get any information.

 

You definitely need to have sight of that file. It would be interesting to get a copy from the magistrates court and compare it with a copy from Npower.

 

By the way, if you think that a solicitor would go to these kind of lengths to challenge Npower, think again. The only person who can do it this thoroughly is You. You are the only person who will be invested with the energy and the anger needed to get stuck in.

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Another thing I would like to turn attention to is to the complaint that you made to the energy ombudsman.

 

I'm intrigued that apparently the energy ombudsman made some decisions and gave Npower six months to respond. This is an extraordinarily long period of time and I'm trying to understand it.

 

Could you tell us about your complaint to the ombudsman. Maybe you could post up a copy of your complaint in PDF format so we can see exactly what you said. Also, a copy of the ombudsman response to you. Naturally, redact the identifiers

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I thought there was an official CPR rule for getting copies of files from courts and they charged £11 for photocopying ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Ooh, didn't know that. Have you any other details?

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Some interesting reading here:

https://thejusticeofthepeaceblog.blogspot.fr/2013/08/six-of-best.html

 

Especially the last comment 26th of January 2017 – although I'm not sure if this is Freedom of the Land kind of stuff.

 

Also, I see that there could even be some question as to whether there was any kind of hearing of the application – even if it was a rubberstamp job. Have the courts confirm that there was a hearing?

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Ooh, didn't know that. Have you any other details?

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part05

 

I think this applies to Magistrates courts as well ?

 

Pretty sure i have seen people with complaints about warrants obtained by Mags using this CPR to gain the files after court staff had been obstructive.

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That's great thanks.

 

Exactly as you say, the rules are here:

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part05#5.4A

 

 

And the identity of the documents that you can obtain is listed here:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part05/pd_part05a

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Bit of a late night at work sorry.

 

It's funny; I've just reviewed what the court gave me and it never dawned on me before but it's not actually a full warrant but a Pre-disconnection visit notice with some incorrect back up.

 

One of the things that looking back at my notes is that Npower on the phone (talking to the specialist team) said I wouldn't have been able to attend the meeting.. I reacted as you might imagine, but I'm now wondering about what is actually in there. So I've emailed the court to verify what they've sent through me and they've replied asking me to give them a call. I imagine I'll have some sweet talking to do.

 

There's a few more suggestions here in the thread and Ill have a work through and provide what I can over the next few week.

 

Just double checked the dates of O/S services - received the indecision 22/12/16 - compliant accepted by them on 23/04/16 so 8 months.

 

SAR is going in the post tomorrow. We couldn't find the cheque book last night!

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What about the pdf copies of the ombudsman docs?

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What about the pdf copies of the ombudsman docs?

 

I can't see a pdf. Just an email and an entry on the site. I'll have a look through tonight.

 

Side note: should the court have a copy of the warrant? Because they don't.

 

I'll put together the formal request and see where I get.

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You will have to convert documents to PDF format. I'm amazed that they say they don't have a copy of the warrant. You're talking about Npower presumably.

 

Yes the court certainly should have. There must be one in existence. I would have thought that it was a public document.

 

But you made an ombudsman complaint, didn't you put that in writing? Wasn't there a final response from Npower in order to allow you to begin the ombudsman process? Where is all that documentation?

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Wouldn't that be nice!

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With the Warrant both Npower and the Court have been unable to provide a copy they (the court) claim they do not keep electronic copies and there is no hardcopy on file and that I must speak to Npower.

 

Further to this the court has not confirmed there was a hearing but their wording isn't precise so I've asked for clarification but I believe I'm going to have to go down the CPR route.

 

I imagine if I started the MCOL process it would mysteriously pop into existence, but we're a long way from that so I don't feel I could rely on it either way.

 

You might have to bear with me in regard to getting of the information onto the forum I do have all that documentation regarding: the Ombudsman; however I've just had a promotion and until I'm replaced I'm going to be in a dual role for the next few months and putting in some additional hours to get a few things over the line. Work life balance here is culturally important within the business so it'll not be a lasting situation.

Edited by JumboJimbo
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Hang on, you said that you had managed to get a copy of a warrant – although in a misspelled name. So you have seen the warrant. I don't understand why there now seems to be an issue over the existence of a warrant. I understand that they may not have been a hearing but if there is a warrant, then what we really want to know is what evidence was provided in support of the application – and of course we want to see the application.

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Hang on, you said that you had managed to get a copy of a warrant – although in a misspelled name. So you have seen the warrant. I don't understand why there now seems to be an issue over the existence of a warrant. I understand that they may not have been a hearing but if there is a warrant, then what we really want to know is what evidence was provided in support of the application – and of course we want to see the application.

 

Apologies. I thought I'd clarified earlier.

 

What I believed to be the warrant was titled npowerwarrant.pdf and was sent from the court.

 

When I've been sorting through what paperwork I have I've realised it was actually the pre disconnection visit paperwork. This week I reapproached the court they confirmed it wasn't a warrant and that they didn't have a copy on file.

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