Santander Refuse refund

[BankFodder]

Well start doing everything in writing, and write the letters as I have suggested above. Once you have put it in writing and you have received written replies you can then go ahead. It's what they say on paper which is what counts.

 

Write the letters, send them off recorded delivery. Come back here when you get a response or else come back here in seven days and we will see about chasing it up. I'm afraid that there's nothing much we can do to hurry it up

– not for the moment anyway. If you don't get responses then we can start to take some more serious action.

[dx100uk]

I have tidied chiragchavda posts

the story is now a lot clearer.

 

however before I publish this to enable others like BF and myself to offer further advise..

 

I need chiragchavda to confirm some additional information.

 

what date was the bad paid for over the phone when she was their in the property with the tenants.

 

what date were the builders instructed and given your wifes the card details by the tenant using a false name and the date the payment was taken by the builders

 

what date were the materials ordered by the tenant using their email and the false name and when was that payment taken

 

what date did travis perkins collect the goods

 

when did you go around the property to discover they had a runner starting the process that revealed this fraud

Edited March 6, 2017 by dx100uk

[chiragchavda]

Hi

We have visited Santander branch today

 

 

first they decline to submit a dispute about the two transactions

 

 

we have provided enough evidence and asked them to submit the dispute

 

 

finally the lady on phone said they had filled Out the form and said to us that they will come back to us in 24 hours with a decision on the dispute

 

We have sent a letter to the builders and to Travis Perkins for refunds of money

 

 

let's see what happens

[BankFodder]

well that's a good start, but did you record the conversation with the bank? Did you get a copy of the form that you submitted to them? Do you know the name of the person you spoke to?

[chiragchavda]

Hi yes we took the name of the person who was dealing with us on phone

 

branch advisor called central team and they filled out the form on the phone

they did not give us a copy of the form but provide a ref number

[chiragchavda]

I spoke with Santander yesterday evening they have confirmed some form has been sent out which we need to fill and return them for further investigation. I have also contacted Travis Perkins local branch manager but he refused to cooperate any further he just said matter in police hand he can't return momey until he is been told by police. When asking from him crime ref no he refused to provide.

 

We have contacted police and they says they not aware of anything even officer says there is no reason not to give crime ref no to me by. Travis Perkins. Police asked to contact head office for chase up things.

[BankFodder]

Clearly this is going to get very complicated. I think the first thing you must do is you must report the whole thing to the police. I think you should do this in writing and address it to the Chief Inspector Administration of your nearest main police station.

 

I think that you will have to allege the crime by your tenant. I think you will also have to make a crime report about the suppliers and say that although they know that the goods were purchased with stolen money and that although the goods have been returned, they are now refusing to return the money to you. I think that you should make a similar allegation against the builder.

 

I think that you must explain that there is a serious amount of money involved here and that you would like the police to investigate it and also you would like a crime reference number for all three allegations.

 

I think you should send a copy of this letter to your MP – make it clear on the bottom of the letter that this is what you are doing.

 

If you would like to draft a letter and post it here then we can comment on it.

 

I think you should write to your MP. I think you should explain to your MP what has happened and that you have been trying to get the police to investigate the matter and they are failing to do so and that you need his/her help to get the police to take it seriously. Post the letter here and we will comment on it.

 

Let us know when you get the form from Santander and post it up here in PDF format and we will help you fill it in and the most effective way.

 

If you haven't realised it yet, I'm struggling to find a clear strategy here. Eventually you could sue the supplier and also the builder for the return of the money, but this will cost you at least the court fee and may be a hearing fee and it sounds to me as if you don't have a great deal of resources. Also, I hope you won't mind me saying that I have a sense that you may have difficulty in preparing and arguing a case in court if it got that far.

 

I think a lot depends on how much of a hurry you are in. Although you are beginning a chargeback procedure against the bank, I don't expect it to be at all easy. They will look around for excuses not to refund you and the fact that the police may be involved will give them the ideal justification.

 

I'm still concerned that you are talking to the bank on the telephone without recording your calls.

[chiragchavda]

Hi

 

Thank you so much for prompt reply. Basically I'm afraid to take matter to court as builder may come back and says they did work ( but we think nothing has been done apart from damage to property as ceiling removed and whole in wall) no paint job nothing. We need strong evidence to support our case in court and if we loose then we may end up with their legal cost. Same things with Travis Perkins. With bank we have really less hope for recovering money. We have wrote letter and email to all departments to look into matter and waiting for response.

 

We trying each way to recover money and main thing we do not have enough money to support us but police and no one can see this even bank. Can bank decline chargeback ?

[BankFodder]

I had understood from your story so far that the builder had done no work. In fact I realise now that I hadn't asked why he had been paid in advance. Now you tell us that in fact he has done work and there may be a dispute over the quality of the work that he has done.

 

I'm afraid that this changes the entire situation. Given the complication, I have very little hope that you will be able to get your money back from the builder unless you bring a court case against him. You would have to allege that the contract was in fact with you – not your tenant – and that the work that he carried out was not of a proper standard. I think that you're going to have a lot of difficulty with this. Also, I don't expect the bank to be very helpful.

 

In terms of the suppliers, I understand that they have had all of the materials back. Is this correct? If the building work was carried out then I don't understand why none of the materials which were delivered were in fact used.

 

If it is correct that they have had all of their materials back in original condition, then there is a chance of getting that money back.

 

I'm afraid this is getting extremely complicated and less and less clear as they go on. I'm afraid that I'm becoming very pessimistic about our chances of helping you.

[chiragchavda]

Hi

 

We did not enter into contact with builder. Basically tenant informed builder to do some work by looking into property i can see they removed ceiling and all electric cable hanging from ceiling. Tenant was going to leave by end of Feb but they suddenly left in first week of Feb after making payment to builder.

 

I assume that builder did not have house key so he can't enter into property and all material ordered was just left out there I still did not get on my side why entrance ceiling removed and all electric cable came out

 

Again we did not sign anything with builder not with Travis Perkins. I forgot to mention one thing as when some of good ordered guy from Travis perkins visited property and they questioned tenant what's their purpose of using this material and he is been told rudely by tenant.

 

I'm in situation as we not sure what happened in property during that month of

Time and why tenant want to do such a large work which include remove ceiling they have removed even steel beam fireboard which protect beam under regulation

 

So we are in complete mess we not sure if builder this things or tenant and why they have to do this things. We try to get more information from builder for work and he is refusing by saying under data protection I'm not allowed to provide any further information. So you can imagine I have really no chance in court

[chiragchavda]

I forgot to mention one thing when having chat conversations with builder website they have sent me one link which relates to card payment made. On that link I can see that they have received email from tenant saying please take payment from my card and they have provided my wife card details when providing card holder name he put his name on card.

[BankFodder]

I had suggested bringing a contract action against the builder because I had thought that there would be a good argument for saying that he intended to contract with you because I thought that the tenant was using your name.

 

Now that you have explained that in fact your tenant was using his own name, I agree that there would be no contract action against the builder. The only other possibility would be an action for negligence if you could show the work had been done poorly. Once again, this would involve fees and complications.

 

Of course it is extremely unhelpful that the police say they won't do anything other than tell you to register on Action Fraud. Did you tell the police the story about the false name being used?

[chiragchavda]

Yes I did tell police false name used but police says they can't prove that so it's a civil matter

[BankFodder]

Well now that you have got the link showing the email with the false name, have you taken a screenshot of it? Do you know how to take a screenshot?

[chiragchavda]

yes i took screenshot but again same problem if we go to bank and try to prove then bank will say same thing as we know this email address and we have done correspondence in past.

 

 

I am really stuck with this complicated matter its a sophisticated crime used our details

[chiragchavda]

My wife used her card to ordered bed in some point December after coming back from holiday. (sorry i dont have her bank statement wth exact date)

 

Builder not telling us anything when they have been instructed or anything but payment was taken out on 09/02/17 so we have informed bank on around 11/02/17

 

Travis perkins same date on 09/02/17 payment was taken out from her a/c

[chiragchavda]

We have submitted this evidence to bank confirming when payment was taken wrongly name used and we have no involvement in this matter. But they refuse to see this only one word from them decision has been made and email address we used in past for correspondence thats it

[BankFodder]

I think the best thing to do is to start writing letters. Let us know when you get the bank form and we will help you to complete it. Also, I think that you will need to write a letter to the police, as suggested above and enclose some evidence.

 

What correspondence from the bank have you heard about this?

[chiragchavda]

Finally i have received dispute form. I have only problem Travis perkins refuse to provide any information or not responding to my email or calls. They start hung up on me. Dont know how do i have to prove in dispute form goods has been returned and they refuse to give me any letter confirming. Without it its hard for me to fill dispute form

[chiragchavda]

I have received email from travis Perkins they not going to refund money I have to contact my bank for refund. I have filled dispute from and sent with all email conversations pictures and copy of videos they collected their goods back.

I have received email from building company saying they will not refund money but they confirm they did not provide any service.

[king12345]

A letter before action to TP will get your refund from them.

Send them an email with proof of goods collection and copy in the ceo.

With regards to the builders, I would insist with the bank first and if no joy send a lba to builders pointing out that they didn't do any work and appointment for their services was done by third party.

I would also go back to the police station and try to convince the desk officer that this is indeed a criminal matter and not a civil dispute.

Make clear that your tenant used your card details obtained illegally and avoid mentioning the builders and TP because your dispute with them IS a civil matter.

[BankFodder]

I have received email from travis Perkins they not going to refund money I have to contact my bank for refund. I have filled dispute from and sent with all email conversations pictures and copy of videos they collected their goods back.

I have received email from building company saying they will not refund money but they confirm they did not provide any service.

 

Please would you post up copies of these emails in PDF format. I'd like to see exactly what they say.

 

A letter before action to TP will get your refund from them.

Send them an email with proof of goods collection and copy in the ceo.

With regards to the builders, I would insist with the bank first and if no joy send a lba to builders pointing out that they didn't do any work and appointment for their services was done by third party.

I would also go back to the police station and try to convince the desk officer that this is indeed a criminal matter and not a civil dispute.

Make clear that your tenant used your card details obtained illegally and avoid mentioning the builders and TP because your dispute with them IS a civil matter.

 

it's all very well thrashing around threatening legal actions, but precisely what legal action are you proposing should be brought?

[king12345]

it's all very well thrashing around threatening legal actions, but precisely what legal action are you proposing should be brought?

 

Against the builders.

They have taken payment (in good faith or not) from a third party who used a card belonging to the op.

They never provided any service or goods.

They now know that the op was defrauded, so they are not entitled to keep the money, especially because they didn't do any work.

Am I wrong?

Is the builder entitled to keep the money?

[BankFodder]

You are quite right to the extent that all those bad things have happened. However, what you don't seem to realise is that in order to bring any kind of legal action, one has to have a legal basis for bringing the action. This means that there have to be grounds which are recognised by law such as a valid contract, trust, a recognised duty of care which has caused foreseeable damage, disruption of an occupier#s right to peaceable enjoyment of the land, all sorts of things.

 

You're quite right that they've taken payment from a third party – but that means that although the builders all the suppliers have a legal relation with that third party, that doesn't put our OP in a position where he has had any transactions with them.

 

They didn't provide any service or goods. That's right, but there was no contract to supply goods to our OP and there was no contract to provide building services for our OP.

 

They have reason to believe that the OP was defrauded. Correct. I don't think they are entitled to keep the money – but the OP doesn't appear to have any legal relationship with them which would entitle him to recover the money. He could only recover the money from the thief.

 

Is the builder entitled to keep the money? No – but the only person that he has a contract with is with the thief and so only the thief is in a position to bring a legal action.

 

Whether you like it or not, that's the way the law works and it's been developing like that very slowly for over 800 years – and most people in the world think that our legal system is doing a pretty good job by comparison to most others.

[BankFodder]

It would be terribly helpful if the OP would actually respond with copies of the emails which I have asked for.

 

I think that I may have come up with a solution to this – but it won't be easy.