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Buccaneer001

Problem with ebay & PayPal!

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I am a UK national, domicile in UK although I occupy much of my time in the Philippines where I have a business, and with my ebay (UK) account I made a purchase from a listing on ebay (UK) priced in British pounds, for delivery to an address in UK (England & Wales) and paid for from my PayPal account which just happens to be a Philippines PayPal account.

 

My purchase transpired to be a fraudulent one so within their 180 days timeframe I opened a complaint with PayPal only for the (Indian) seller to pull a fast one and they, rather than I, escalated my complaint for PayPal to adjudicate and with no investigation whatsoever PayPal adjudicated against me wrongly believing the lies of the seller … and of course PayPal notify one of this by an email that cannot be replied to, that there can be no appeal etc. etc. etc. so I filed against PayPal (Europe) via Money Claim Online.

 

Now if one attempts to go shopping with any UK retailer that accepts PayPal, Wilkinson to name but one, and one attempts to have delivered to a UK address using a foreign (Philippines) PayPal account then one receives this message:

 

“We're sorry, PayPal Philippines accounts cannot ship purchases to United Kingdom.”

 

But ... If one shops from an ebay (UK) account, on ebay (UK) and with delivery to a UK address using a foreign (Philippines) PayPal account then no problem at all, the transaction approves immediately.

 

Taking PayPal to court their solicitors appear to have dropped their rebuttal that my purchase, the seller, was fraudulent, that they didn't investigate etc. and it seems their only defence is that as an ebay (UK) account holder, making a purchase listed and paid for in British pounds from ebay (UK), with a delivery address in UK, but with a Philippines PayPal account, their solicitors are arguing that I need to be taking this to a court in Singapore (Where PayPal Philippines are registered) and that I agreed to this when clicking to agree to their terms and conditions and all that nonsense.

 

PayPal's solicitors deny that they are in any way the same business as ebay, as ebayer's know when we click to 'resolve a problem' we get offloaded to PayPal for here, in this scenario, PayPal to ultimately reply, to the effect, "Yeah right, but you need to sue us in Singapore and not in your own country and where any fraud took place".

 

So my points, my questions are:

 

1. Whether they are the same company or not ebay (UK) have sub-contracted PayPal to deal with their customer complaints and PayPal have clearly accepted such a contract with ebay (UK).

 

2. And for this UK to UK transaction PayPal clearly broke their own rule of using n a Philippines account for delivery to a UK address, whether this is a money laundering law dictated by state or whatever, that a Philippines (Singapore) company has clearly accepted to deal with any customer complaint of a UK to UK contract and purchase.

 

3. We haven't yet made it to court, we're still in the stages of 'foreplay' but their solicitors are hiding behind "We're PayPal Europe, PayPal Singapore is nothing to do with us buddy".

 

4. So do I have a case to continue proceeding against PayPal Europe and what should my (legal) angle of attack be? And/or:

 

 

 

5. If I do need to proceed against PayPal Singapore, when indeed that PayPal is a global organisation, if PayPal Singapore are trading in UK, as they did with my transaction, should they not be held accountable to, as necessary, appear in court in UK to answer to any misdemeanour and not hide away in Singapore?

 

Thanks in advance

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Hi

 

I am a British Expat living in the Philippines and have problems with PayPal. After contacting them I understand that there has been a severe increase in fraudulent transactions from the Philippines which has caused problems in the Western World.

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eBay and PayPal are no longer part of the same group of companies. ... eBay will continue to work with PayPal for payments, refunds and holds.

 

They split so PayPal could take on Apple and Android Pay

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Their UK solicitors are happy enough to offload UK misdemeanours to PayPal Singapore but I've just performed a whois search and guess who owns paypal.co.uk?

 

Domain name: paypal.co.uk Registrant: PayPal PTE LTD. Registrant's address: 5 Temasek Boulevard 09-01 Suntec Tower Five Singapore SG 038985 Singapore

Edited by Buccaneer001

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Your argument with Paypal should be along the lines of the purchase was made in the UK, paid for in the UK for delivery in the UK therefore UK consumer law applies.

 

As has been said eBay and Paypal are now to all intents and purposes separate companies.

 

You will probably find that Paypal will cave in if you stick to your guns. But you will find your Paypal account closed - though it is an easy matter opening a new one using a different email address and bank account from the previous one if you should wish to do so.

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Well my claim is for GBP144.00 whilst their solicitors are based in Aylesbury and I've called for the case to be heard in Sheffield County Court.

 

It's going to cost them thousands to defend a case of a mere GBP144.00.

 

My point entirely that this is a UK domestic sale but they probably have a point that when I clicked a button historically I agreed to the Singapore nonsense however now that I have learned that paypal.co.uk is owned by PayPal in Singapore they could be considered to be the same company

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you bought through ebay UK so UK law is applicable to the purchase. When I log in the paypal.com theri system recognises that I am in the UK so defaults to the .com/uk page. Patently in the Philippines the paypal page has defaulted to the local one and you cant change that but I'm certain that doesnt chaneg the location of the contract. For a bit of clarity though, was it a UK bank the funds came from?

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No, alas it was a Philippines account and/or card that the payment came from.

 

It is eBay (UK) that GUARANTEED me a refund, in fairness to PayPal they didn't guarantee me diddly squat and as separate companies PayPal cannot be held accountable for eBay.

 

I tried suing eBay (UK) some months back over a separate issue and they didn't respond, trying to establish the up to date registered address for these fly-by-night characters can be an achievement in itself, regardless of what google may come up with does anyone have a current registered address for eBay (UK),k one that they may actually have had a response from?

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If it is causing that much of a problem set up a VPN. There a a couple of good free one but the subscriptions are the best

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Virtual Private Network.

Using a VPN hides your is address and allows you to connect to sites that are either not allowed in the country or you are not allowed to access due to your location. Google What is a VPN and you will get a better description. I Use a VPN to access the BBC iPlayer

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Ah, the same as, or similar to, a proxy IP address, PayPal or eBay wouldn't know where I were right up until I ask for delivery to a Philippines postal address!

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This was my most recent email to their lawyers:

 

Dear Ms W,

 

Whilst I accept and understand that, these days eBay and PayPal are different companies given the circumstances it is difficult to talk about one without talking about the other, I would be of the opinion that my grievance, my claim, should be with eBay (UK) Limited except that clearly such is the relationship between eBay and PayPal that, it would appear, eBay have sub-contracted their customer complaints to PayPal and PayPal have accepted such a sub-contract, indeed to copy and paste confirmation of this:

EBAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

 

“We guarantee you get the item you ordered or your money back.”

- Tony, eBay UK

 

Free, automatic coverage

 

We want you to shop hassle-free on eBay.

 

Most purchases go through with no problems at all. However, if your item doesn’t arrive or wasn’t what was described in the listing:

 

We'll make sure that you get the item you ordered; or

 

You’ll be refunded the purchase price and original postage costs if you paid using PayPal.

 

So I fall within the criteria that I didn't receive the item that I purchased, the item that was delivered to me was not of "new" condition, without any user manual and of a counterfeit appearance, that 'Tony' of eBay UK guarantees that I will get my money back and that I'll be refunded the purchase price etc. because I paid with PayPal.

 

Please note the requirement, to be guaranteed my money back, was that I pay by PayPal, not necessarily PayPal (UK), PayPal (Europe) or PayPal (Singapore), just PayPal thus I have met the requirement(s) of the money back guarantee of eBay (UK) Limited.

 

If you, upon behalf of PayPal, are suggesting that PayPal have no such agreement with eBay (UK) Limited then perhaps that is something that PayPal need to take up with eBay (UK) Limited because that is not the message that they are broadcasting.

 

Now if I attempt to make a PayPal purchase with any UK retailer for delivery to a UK address using my PayPal Philippines account I receive the following message:

 

We're sorry, PayPal Philippines accounts cannot ship purchases to United Kingdom.

 

But if I make a purchase with eBay (UK) Limited with delivery to a UK address, as I have done many times, PayPal break their own rule and allow me to use my PayPal Philippines account domestically within UK.

 

It is also noted that paypal.co.uk is registered to PayPal PTE Limited of Singapore so the Singaporean smoke screen that you have been hiding behind is one and the same as PayPal (UK)!

 

So Tony of eBay (UK) Limited GUARANTEED me my money back if I paid by PayPal, if PayPal find themselves unable to honour that GUARANTEE then perhaps PayPal may take it up with, or provide me with the electronic contact information of, Tony!

 

I am proceeding with my action and have asked for the case to be heard in Sheffield County Court

 

Regards

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