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Hello,

 

Today someone from Marston Holdings came to our property for someone who no longer lives in the UK.

 

 

He was a family friend of ours and used our address without our permission nor knowledge.

They are after a Magistrate Court fine.

 

My mother answered the door.

Mother doesn’t speak English so she woke up my brother up who was unaware what was going on and shut the door on the person telling him that he doesn’t leave here.

 

A removal notice was left behind saying that they are now going to take our stuff from us.

 

I called the number from the removal notice and spoke to the person who authorised the entire thing and after explaining to them what happened and he said he can’t doing nothing but prepare for our stuff to be taken. His giving us 72 hours from Monday to prepare...

 

He was rude and unfriendly and wasn't trying to reason to with me.

 

He said that because my brother shut the door on him and didn’t provide ID’s, he nows has ‘enough evidence’ that the person does live here.

 

Now we are going to lose all of our stuff because

a) someone used our address without our permission and knowledge and

b) my brother shut the door on the bailiffs telling him that he wasn't living in the property.

 

We don’t have receipts for most of the items.

 

What can I do?

We do not know where this guy lives and we do not have any contact details...

 

We are a family of 6 and this will cause a lot of stress.

This is the first time we are dealing with bailiffs.

Edited by MrIndeed

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Because it is a criminal fine matter, best to supply Marstons with ID information of all residents. You can see a Solicitors to swear a declaration that all property at x address belongs to x list of people and there are no goods belinging to Mr x who has never resided at the address.

 

If Marstons don't behave, ask for which Magistrates dealt with the matter and make a complaint to the enforcement manager.


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I tried doing that over the phone, but the guy wasn't having any it.

.. He kept saying that he 'understood' but he still can't prevent it even though his the one who authorised it.

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That is because in most cases people tell lies and the person owing the fine is found when they attend. They can force entry for criminal fines. If the person does not live there, then have ID information available for all residents and invite Marstons to attend with Police officers present, when you can explain to Police that the person Marstons are seeking does not live there. You are not expected to pay money for this person and Marstons can only take goods they believe this person owns.


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Okay... I can understand that, but what's stressing me what is how the guy said that even though he doesn't live in the address, we must somehow contact him and get him to pay before the 72 hours or else his going to take our stuff.

 

and on the day there is no guarantee that they might still take our stuff even after we proved him wrong.

Edited by MrIndeed

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A Statutory Declaration sworn at a Solicitors pdq as per UncleBulgaria post #2 might help as in Named debtor non resident and all goods belong to the named persons below. The bailiff would be silly to completely ignore a SD, might buy you time to submit the SD to the issuing court. Don't know if any solicitors are open Saturday, but first thing Monday could be ok, or even ask the court to swear one Monday, as you are horrified by the whole thing and the named debtor is not there and never has been. Indicate to the court that your mother who opened thue door to the bailiff does not speak English.

 

Other Caggers will be along soon to help further or offer alternatives.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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This is where I have a problem with the EA's

totally understand they are fobbed off a lot of the time

 

but there should be more protection for those whom are genuine.

they should not have the hassle of doing a section 85 (think that is right )

 

we are meant to be innocent until proven other wise.

 

EA's seem to be judge and jury .

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Had similar situations to OP a while back now though, first was a bailiff fetching up at my door two months after we moved in for a previous occupants TV Licensing fine, stroppy git he was was most upset when proof of start of occupancy and ID shown, plus a CAB advisor ID card he didn't try to push in as Mrs BN was holding on to the Dobermann behind me at the door.

 

Yes it is difficult for EA's where there is dispute of residency, but they should also exercise due diligence and ask for reasonable proof before saying they will smash their way in to a person with limited or no English language knowledge, very common within migrant and Asian communities, as it will be the wives and mothers at home usually when the bailiff calls; well illustrated in the infamous Can't Pay episode when the EA abused the Romanian lady.

 

Other one was a couple of months later two coppers turned up with an arrest warrant without bail for the previous occupant for non payment of fines for driving whilst disqualified. Was studying law at that time, so showed them proof they looked upset, but told them that had they arrested me without allowing me to show ID, I could have had them for wrongful arrest and unlawful detention, something confirmed by one of my lecturers later.

 

Just shows the dangers of officials, bailiff and police making assumptions and threats as a result.

 

Hope MrIndeed can get the requisite proof, or at least the Stat Dec before Marstons come back and start shouting and drilling locks.


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I can easily show proof that the person has never lived in the property.

 

If they still won't go away, I just get the police to get them away.

 

What I'm afraid is when the bailiffs turn up when my mother is alone or when's there's no one home.

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send scanned copies of that proof by email to marstons and the court, using the reference provided by the bailiff. If you can't scan the documents take pictures and send the Jpegs as attachments.

 

As this is a criminal fine there is a chance that the police will side with the bailiff and help them gain entry if you call them,

although you could show the copper and bailiff the proof that the debtor has never lived there,

 

 

whether the bailiff will accept it is another matter,

all they want is the money,

and they don't care who pays it,

debtor or third party.


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They will often try to persuade a parent to pay a fine incurred by an adult child resident or not.


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I'm afraid that's never going to happen.

If that's how the system works then it is unfair and unacceptable.

 

My plan is on that day the guys show up, I will show them all the ID's of those who live in the property and anything they require to prove that the person never lived in the property.

 

The interaction will happen though the kitchen window and not by the door.

At no point will the door be opened.

 

I will also swear a Statutory Declaration on the behalf of my mother at my local Magistrate Court on Monday.

 

If Marston still want to take our stuff even after proving them wrong,

we will simply refuse

 

 

How much does it cost to swear a Statutory Declaration?

I'm getting different prices which is making me confused.

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If the Magistrates court let you swear one might be no cost, don't know whether the court will let you swear one as you aren't the named debtor

Price of Stat dec around £10 at a solicitor /Commissioner for Oaths get 3 notarised copies, one to send to marstons, one for Magistrates, and one to keep to show the bailiff. Other Caggers might well be along soon with further, and possibly better advice. Hope all goes well, as it isn't a nice experience to put innocent third parties through.


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Thank you.

 

I found the whole situation to be ridiculous and stressful.

 

Hopefully everything will be dealt when they come around again by peacefully and not forceful.

 

Under no circumstances will my mother be made to pay for someone else fine.

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I'm afraid that's never going to happen.

If that's how the system works then it is unfair and unacceptable.

 

My plan is on that day the guys show up, I will show them all the ID's of those who live in the property and anything they require to prove that the person never lived in the property.

 

The interaction will happen though the kitchen window and not by the door. At no point will the door be opened.

 

I will also swear a Statutory Declaration on the behalf of my mother at my local Magistrate Court on Monday.

 

If Marston still want to take our stuff even after proving them wrong, we will simply refuse

 

How much does it cost to swear a Statutory Declaration?

I'm getting different prices which is making me confused.

 

My two pence worth.

 

I would have as much documentation like council tax and tenancy agreements to hand as well as id's.

 

Feel free to tell the EA to go away.

 

All you will do is get his back up and arouse his suspicions if you are being evasive/abusive.

 

At this point,

I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the process of gaining entry to search the property if he believes the debtor to reside their and your actions can give him that belief.

 

Ultimately,

its not the EA putting you through this stressful position,

its the debtor that has not paid the debt.

 

The EA will continue until he is satisfied.

 

Showing paperwork of who lives at the address proves just that...who lives there.

But it doesn't prove the debtor doesn't live there.

Only a search will sometimes confirm this.

 

And a stat Dec will be ignored by the EA.

You need to get the court to accept it and withdraw the EA.

 

Thank you.

 

I found the whole situation to be ridiculous and stressful.

 

Hopefully everything will be dealt when they come around again by peacefully and not forceful.

 

Under no circumstances will my mother be made to pay for someone else fine.

 

Yes,

I wouldn't expect someone's mother to pay even if the debtor did live there.

 

 

But any doubt as to who owns the goods could result in a removal which can only then be stopped by payment or a third party claim.

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There will be no doubts as my mum does own most of the stuff... I do not have to proof to them by giving a receipt. That means nothing nor is a good evidence for proof.

 

Who keeps receipts for items that aren't warranted after a 1 year or even 6 months?

 

We have nothing to do with this court order or the payment.

We will not be the third party who will pay for some guys fines who used our address without our permission.

 

Plus I be doing a Statutory Declaration on the behalf of my mother on Monday.

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The problem is, if he doesn't believe you, you WILL have to provide proof of ownership.

A stat Dec nay work with court and can be used as a 3rd party claim but ultimately, the court will make that decision after removal.

 

If you are compliant with the EA however, then the chances are he will be gone within minutes.

 

You have no idea how many times EVERYDAY we are lied to. We need to confirm its a gone away, not just tell the court we have been told. We have to see the proof.

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Sorry, you already answered this. I didn't see your posts until now...

 

 

I will be showing the guy the passports of all of those who live in the property, any bills such as utilities, contract details from the children schools showing who lives in the property i.e. my mother and father details and any council related stuff letters such as tax, housing and child benefits.

 

 

Will this be enough evidence that the person does not live in the property.

Edited by MrIndeed

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Hello,

 

Thanks to members of this forum, I am now comfortable.

 

Sorry if I did sound arrogant, it’s just I’m stressed and frustrated with the whole situation.

 

It is also the first time we are dealing with bailiffs and I had negative connotations about them after reading and watching videos of bad bailiffs being bullies.

I do understand that these guys are just doing their jobs.

 

We should have dealt with them more appropriately when they first came around to our house.

My mother didn’t speak English who in turn woke up my brother who was confused and probably p**sed off.

 

This whole situation could have been avoided if we instead listened and not slam the door shut on the bailiffs.

 

Hopefully the next time the bailiffs come around we will be able to resolve this issue by being cooperative. We having nothing to hide.

 

Thank you.

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Just by being open and honest and having the paperwork should sort this matter out.

The chance of him forcing entry after having a civil chat and seeing the paperwork is slim to none.

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Hello,

 

Thanks to members of this forum, I am now comfortable.

 

Sorry if I did sound arrogant, it’s just I’m stressed and frustrated with the whole situation.

 

It is also the first time we are dealing with bailiffs and I had negative connotations about them after reading and watching videos of bad bailiffs being bullies.

I do understand that these guys are just doing their jobs.

 

We should have dealt with them more appropriately when they first came around to our house.

My mother didn’t speak English who in turn woke up my brother who was confused and probably p**sed off.

 

This whole situation could have been avoided if we instead listened and not slam the door shut on the bailiffs.

 

Hopefully the next time the bailiffs come around we will be able to resolve this issue by being cooperative. We having nothing to hide.

 

Thank you.

 

If the enforcement officers do not behave themselves, then record their visit on any video recording device that you have and call the Police. Hopefully this should not be necessary, but you do hear of so many reports where innocent third parties are harassed into making payments.


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I tried doing that over the phone, but the guy wasn't having any it.

.. He kept saying that he 'understood' but he still can't prevent it even though his the one who authorised it.

 

This is a response that I gave a few days ago to another poster with a similar problem:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?475182-Marstons-court-fine&p=5002587&viewfull=1#post5002587

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Given the advice you have given, then there must be a way of innocent members of the public contacting the court that issued the warrant to advise them of the conduct of their Enforcement Agents.

 

I do not personally think it is reasonable for Enforcement companies to have any right to enter a third parties property to start searching for someone owing a fine. There should be a cooling off period, where the third party can provide relevant evidence to support that the person named on the warrant does not reside at the address. This might be a sworn statement to Magistrates together with relevant documents, where there are consequences for not telling the truth.


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Agree in principle UB, as we advised Stat Dec, and show proof, and Grumpy giving the EA side showed that they might not accept the proofs offered, and possibly if English isn't first language or have limited knowledge EA will continue, as they might in the "heat of the moment" regard the alleged debtor/third party as lying or obstructive. so drill the lock of the closed door, and ignore the paperwork proffered as Grumpy points out it, only proved who lives there not who does not so will enter to search for the non resident debtor's goods.

 

When I had the call for the ex occupants council tax arrears admittedly a long time ago my proof of ID and occupation date plus a Dobermann and vicious cat along with CAB ID badge dissuaded the bailiff from ignoring my proof as he wanted to do and enter anyway, as he said I might be showing fake ID.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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