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opening/closing stock records


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Hi Josh,

 

In that case, I see no prob in sending the bank statements off to HMRC.

 

All you need say is, "I enclose the bank statements you asked for."

 

Don't go into any other detail at all.

 

:-)

 

OK, so basically once i send eveyrthing off, i will put a covering letter inside the envelope along with the docuemnts.

 

What do i do regarding stock records?

Ive already told the officer i dont have opening and closing stock records as a soletrader below the vat threshold i dont need to do this.

 

What about just stock records?

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also what do i say if hmrc ring me, should i answer there questions or anything like that? ive read that i can ask them to send me everything in writing should they need anything answered, regarding these compliance checks?

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Josh, you really need to calm down a bit !

 

I said in post #48 and probably elsewhere, forget about the stock issue for now.

 

You've written to HMRC about this - wait for their reply, then we can decide how to proceed.

 

If HMRC asks you to call them, simply say, "I will only discuss matters in writing for now as I want proof of all that is said."

 

Wait for bank statements, go through them carefully as advised above and let us know if everything looks ok in them.

 

If this is all a bit too much for you, then maybe using an accountant to deal with HMRC would be worth paying for in your case. If it saves you stressing out, it may be worth the expense.

 

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Sorry mate, im just worried.

 

Ive calmed down a bit now.

 

Ive check everything, it looks kool on my side. Nothing in there thats not supposed to be there.

 

Josh, you really need to calm down a bit !

 

I said in post #48 and probably elsewhere, forget about the stock issue for now.

 

You've written to HMRC about this - wait for their reply, then we can decide how to proceed.

 

If HMRC asks you to call them, simply say, "I will only discuss matters in writing for now as I want proof of all that is said."

 

Wait for bank statements, go through them carefully as advised above and let us know if everything looks ok in them.

 

If this is all a bit too much for you, then maybe using an accountant to deal with HMRC would be worth paying for in your case. If it saves you stressing out, it may be worth the expense.

 

:-)

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Hi Josh,

 

Sorry. Of course you've already rec'd and checked the bank statements.

 

Put statements in an envelope with a covering letter showing, at the top, your name, address and UTR number which is in the format xxxxx xxxxx.

 

Your letter needs to only say what I put in post #50.

 

Then just wait and see what reply comes back. Try not to fret or guess how they'll reply. We'll deal with that at the time.

 

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hi, so ive sent most things they have asked for off to them last week.

I havent had any response from them yet. Is there a general guidline on how long these things can take to be settled?

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Hi Josh,

 

Remember, HMRC compliance/investigation staff are dealing with many cases at a time, not just yours.

 

They'll consider your reply while looking at your records and the filed return, when they're ready.

 

When they've considered what they have so far, they will reply.

 

Until then, try not to fret. :wink:

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

hi guys an update on this, ive provided everything i can to the officer, but hes stated he wants to meet at there offices which i am unable to do due to ill health? i dont understand why, as ive provided everything to them via email.

i have asked if he could call me and he can contact me by phone and ask me what he wants to know, is this ok?

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Hi Josh,

 

A Google search "Can HMRC insist I meet them" will throw up useful input from tax practitioners.

 

Eg, see here - https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2013/06/19/309321/come-and-see-me

 

Or here - http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/hmrc-compliance-check-1

 

Read as much as you can, not just from the 2 links but from other Google results.

 

If you're advised that it would be sensible to attend a meeting (with a tax specialist to accompany you) are you physically not able to attend ?

 

A meeting is not unusual or unreasonable and reluctance to attend could cause HMRC to consider WHY you appear reluctant.

 

It's not likely that HMRC will want to deal with this by phone unless there are compelling reasons for it to happen like that.

 

Once you're read through some of the links you'll find, you will have a better idea of the alternatives open to you. One of the alternatives may well be to discuss this now with an advisor, either to take advice or to have them represent you. But even if they represent you, that may not necessarily mean you can avoid a meeting with HMRC.

 

Finally, you don't need to be too worried about such a meeting. I've been through one myself and survived. You just need to stick to a few basic techniques that we can go through later.

 

Read and learn !! :wink:

 

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Hi Josh,

 

A Google search "Can HMRC insist I meet them" will throw up useful input from tax practitioners.

 

Eg, see here - https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2013/06/19/309321/come-and-see-me

 

Or here - http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/hmrc-compliance-check-1

 

Read as much as you can, not just from the 2 links but from other Google results.

 

If you're advised that it would be sensible to attend a meeting (with a tax specialist to accompany you) are you physically not able to attend ?

 

A meeting is not unusual or unreasonable and reluctance to attend could cause HMRC to consider WHY you appear reluctant.

 

It's not likely that HMRC will want to deal with this by phone unless there are compelling reasons for it to happen like that.

 

Once you're read through some of the links you'll find, you will have a better idea of the alternatives open to you. One of the alternatives may well be to discuss this now with an advisor, either to take advice or to have them represent you. But even if they represent you, that may not necessarily mean you can avoid a meeting with HMRC.

 

Finally, you don't need to be too worried about such a meeting. I've been through one myself and survived. You just need to stick to a few basic techniques that we can go through later.

 

Read and learn !! :wink:

 

:-)

 

hi no ive been housebound, for the last 2 years due to issues with my mental health.

 

Can i ask the officer to come to my home? or would that be abit too intrusive do you think?

 

I really dont understand, my records show how much ive generated in revenue the last tax year if the officer went through it then deducted the expenses he would know ive declared the right amount to hmrc, if i made a mistake in the amount i decalred sureley they he could just say to me you made more in profits after my declared expenses then he could be upfront and say to me my decalred figure is wrong...so why is all this neccsasry?

 

i have read the links provided and now understand how it could look if i decline the interview, but i have no other choice, i have already done this, if i could attend i would do so as i have nothing to hide, but things have been on top of me latley ive put eerything on hold in my life and this is something else i cant deal with right now.

 

well the officer did phone me at the start but i couldnt answer and missed the call....what happened next is i sent an email to the officer due to convenience of email and send my digital documents via email too..so i just communicated via email.

 

Its not an interview he stated its a "meeting" but its probably really an interview.

 

so what should i do, do you think? im waiting for his reply now, i told him im unable to attend, if he wants he can phone me and i can asnwer any questions he has....

 

if he declines the phone call....do you think its ok for me to invite him to my home address for the meeting?

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Hi Josh,

 

I think you should have sought advice before contacting HMRC again. I know you're anxious for all this to be over but it's good to get input before you act.

 

It's too early to advise if a phone conversation or an invite to your home is the best way forward. Wait for the reply to come back and let us know what he says BEFORE making further contact.

 

Out of interest, if your mental health has left you housebound for 2 years, are you even able to allow a stranger in "authority" to come to your home ?

 

I assume your GP could confirm you have serious anxiety issues ?

 

:-)

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hi slick, its a long story re my health.

Ok i will wait until i reply back.

 

i live with my parents, so having the meeting at my home is not an issue, its just ive not left my home for a while due to some issues im facing hence why im unable to leave my house.

 

He probably wants to gain some calrification of the documents i sent to him, but he suggested a "meeting", is this wholy neccsasry im sure we can do this over the phone and he can ask me whatever he wants answered regarding the documents.

 

how long can they keep this check open for? is there maximuim time limit on these things?

 

also regarding the meeting, will it just be me and the officer or someone else present as well?

 

and what sort of questions do they ask, the officer said its about my records and business in general.

 

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/hmrc-compliance-check-1

 

ive just read the above link and there are some who suggest not to attend.

Edited by slick132
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Hi Josh,

 

Several posts merged to reduce thread length. Please consider your reply and make just one answer, not several. :wink:

 

You need to remember as said already, these "investigations" are not necessarily targeted - they can be totally random - so you you should not feel like you've been picked on deliberately. It may be purely random selection.

 

Tell us what reply you get.

 

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If I had a crystal ball I would bet that they want to undersatnd your business and make sure you are keepng proper records so they can be sure that you are paying the right amount of tax. It cannot be sadi that your record keeping is good enough but my experience form a visit by the tax man meant that they expected me to keep till rolls and issue receipts to all customers at the local markets I sold at. As most of them didnt have an electricity supply to run a till and many of my sales were in pence per customer this was left in limbo. in short, the most likely outcome is you will be told to do stocktakes annually and keep better record so they can understand them if they feel like asking again. IF your turnover is small then they wont be back. If it hovers around the VAT threshold they will keep an eye.

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hi

 

But is a meeting really neccsasry, i can discuss anything they want over the phone, a meeting is invonvenient for me right now.

I am awaiting the officers response.

 

With reagrds to the opening/closing stock records, the officer was fine with my explanation that under cash basis accounting i didnt have to keep opening/closing stock records.

 

There is one thing that i did note to myself in which, i think i MIGHT have been seen to over inflate my stock expense (basically i made an order for stock on 25th april 16, which i declared in the 2015/16 tax year but i should have decalred it in the following 16//17 tax year as thats when the order falls under) this may be an error on my part but i could have sworn i made the order early april but bank statements says otherwise.

 

i have two options

1) own up to the mistake and tell the officer

or

2) dont say anything and dont declare this order as an expense in the 16/17 tax year in which my profits would be higher.

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once he replies back, i was thinking of sending him the following letter as written on the following forum (but obviously adjust it so that it applies to me)...if the officer wants a general understanding of my business i can send this in writing which this thread suggests who probably was in a similar situation to me with hmrc reuesting meetings.

 

 

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/hmrc-compliance-check-1

I refer to the request made by you for a meeting of approx 3 hours purely to enable you to gain a better understanding of the business. As you know, both my client and myself have shown good faith by fully co-operating with you thus far, and we intend to continue to do so - I trust that you will reciprocate our good faith. I understand from you that you hold no information to suggest that there are any inaccuracies in the Tax Return - if such understanding is incorrect, please advise me by return of any matter(s) which give(s) any indication that any amendments are required to the Return.

To avoid inconvenience to my client and myself, and in order to bring matters to a close ( and since, with respect of course, the request for a three-hour meeting implies a degree of inexperience within HMRC of basic operational matters for this type of business) may I respond to your request for information as to how the business operates as follows :-

(1) Custom is obtained from . . . . .

(2) etc etc [ set out 6 or 7 operational aspects ]

If you are unsure re any of the above matters, please advise me accordingly.

The private bank statements are unrelated to the business and I consider there to be no need to supply these to you [ delete this if inapplicable of course].

In the hopefully unlikely event that any questions arise from the above, please address those questions promptly to me. If, however, you have no questions to raise, and since I understand that you have indicated that you hold no information which casts doubt on the accuracy of the Tax Return, I look forward to receiving a closure notice reflecting no adjustments to the figures on the Return.

Yours "

 

 

can anyone advise if this would be a nice firm handed letter if it was adjusted for my needs?

thanks.

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Hi Josh,

 

With regards to the opening/closing stock records, the officer was fine with my explanation that under cash basis accounting i didn't have to keep opening/closing stock records.

 

Sorry but was this discussion by phone or letter or email ?

 

As regards the date of the Stock Purchase, it falls into one year or another. How much is the stock purchase made in 2016/17 that you declared in 2015/16 ?

 

It's too early to send that letter, or any similar letter, just now. It refers to a case where there are no inaccuracies and this doesn't apply to you.

 

You say a meeting would be inconvenient for you but this isn't likely to impress HMRC. They may take more account of a mental health issue if documented by your GP.

 

Any meeting would probably have just you and the HMRC officer present but you could have a tax specialist or a chaperone of your choice present if you so wished.

 

Do nothing more until you hear back from HMRC and report here first.

 

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I would NOT be sending them that letter. It is not applicable and will only irritate the recipient.

As for your error in the stock purchase, I am not impressed and I doubt if they will be either. This will mean that what have otherwiswe been a short meeting with some words of advice on how to do things in a way they like may well keep them occupied a bit longer. You had better sort out this discrpancy and make sure that is it properly accounted for in the 16/17 tax year and likewise make sure that your beginning of year stock and end of year stock tally with your sales.

 

Edited in accordance with EB's post #72. HB

Edited by honeybee13
Corrected to show intended meaning as per EB's post
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Hi Josh,

 

 

 

Sorry but was this discussion by phone or letter or email ?

 

As regards the date of the Stock Purchase, it falls into one year or another. How much is the stock purchase made in 2016/17 that you declared in 2015/16 ?

 

It's too early to send that letter, or any similar letter, just now. It refers to a case where there are no inaccuracies and this doesn't apply to you.

 

You say a meeting would be inconvenient for you but this isn't likely to impress HMRC. They may take more account of a mental health issue if documented by your GP.

 

Any meeting would probably have just you and the HMRC officer present but you could have a tax specialist or a chaperone of your choice present if you so wished.

 

Do nothing more until you hear back from HMRC and report here first.

 

:-)

 

Hi guys,

hes replied back and stated that he can progress the enquiry without a face to face meeting but it might take slightley longer to conclude and if hes got any questions for me he will email them to me.

 

regarding opening/closing stock records - this was something i emailed him about,

I stated under cash basis form of accounting i didnt have to keep opening/closing stock records as per the advice of an accountant.

and he stated that "hes satisfied i have answered these points and no further action is required at this time"

there were two other points which i clarified him on >

 

1- any estimates i used in my calulations - i said i used true actual figures

2 - any other income i had - i said i didnt have any other income.

 

as for stock purchase - the amount was for just under £1900

i have it dated as being made in 05 jan 16 - it was paid for around late april 16. (after the tax year had ended).

this is just something that i have spotted myself, and something which the officer has not raised with me.

 

i wont be sending that letter posted above right now i will wait for his next reply.

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Hi Josh,

 

If you intend to consult a tax specialist, NOW is the time to do it so you can tell them about the stock purchase error. They will advise you how to proceed.

 

If you do NOT intend to use a specialist, your next job is to write to HMRC asap.

 

Tell us your intention so we can draft a letter for you if necessary. It's v important that you tell HMRC before they spot the error and come to you about it.

 

Also, please tell us any reason you have for this error being made so we can include this if necessary.

 

:-)

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I still believe that no accountant would advise you as claimed so i take this as a simple misunderstanding. You should perhaps let the person know about this and your efforts to try and recify the known errors (get your 2016/17 figures done so the 2 years can be looked at together.) and do a stocktake and chaeck that against your purchase invoices and sales. They will be quite accepting if things actually add up at some point that can be clearly identified.

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