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    • once a debt is sb'd nothing not even a judge can unbar it no harm in talking to BC at all. they are nothing to do with the claim they sold the debt in .........see NOA letter    
    • Here are the Particulars of Claim   Name of the Claimant ? Hoist Finance UK Holdings Limited   date of claim - 30th January 2020   Date  to acknowledge) = 17/02/2020   date to submit defence = 02/03/2020    Particulars of Claim   1. The claim is for the sum of £7939.36 arising from the defendants breach of a regulated consumer credit agreement referenced Under no xxxx926xxxxxx03   2. The defendant has failed to remedy the breach in accordance with a Default Notice issued pursuant to ss.87(1) and 88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.   3.The Claimant claims the sums due from the Defendant following the legal assignment of the agreement from Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd(Ex Barclaycard) Written notice of the assignment has been given.   4.The Claimant claims 1. The sum of £7939.36 2. Costs   What is the total value of the claim? £8449.00   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes dated 02092019   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Not sure   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?Not sure Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card.   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?  After April 2007 actually August 2007   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Can't recall   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ?No idea   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Claim issued by Hoist, so assigned.   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Howard Cohen solicitors says yes. I say no   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not to my knowledge   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No   Why did you cease payments? Costly divorce and failed small business   What was the date of your last payment? Over 6 yeras ago I believe   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Spoke to them many years ago   Will get on with CCA and CPR tomorrow.   Is there a danger that if he attempts to call BC he could take it out of staute barred?  I will have to contact him Spain so need to advise him what not to say.
    • DX ,thanks for spacing post BankFodder,  sorry, point taken,   FS
    • defence due by 4pm Monday 2nd   has he...   .  get a CCA Request running to the claimant https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/  leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed . .  get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant] . . https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ . . type your name ONLY no need to sign anything . you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]   get him to ring BC ask last payment date tomorrow.    
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Lilypad1

2 backdoor 2016 CCJ's - Excel/BW for 2x2015 PCN's - both set aside by mutual consent orders etc - now seems 1 didn't, found re-registered backdoor CCJ - help

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Ask the court what is going on, as it was supposed to have been discontinued 2 years ago, or is it another one?


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I would just add that as you were not the driver under POFA you are not liable for any collection fees other than the £100 or so detailed in the Signage.

 

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nop they cant email the WS, typical lazy Renshaw smith tactic.

 

When it gets to just under 2 weeks to the hearing you write to the court and complain that you havent received their WS and ask for it to be struck out as they have failed to follow the court's instruction.

 

Civil procedure rules state that such things have to be in writing by letter.

you might agree with them that email is OK but they cant choose that for themselves.

 

Now tell us exactly what is going on and post up the WS as well

. Please make it clear about the whens and wheres etc

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Hi ok thanks for replies. I had trouble finding how to reply on  my phone and don't have a computer, so am at the library which is pathetic and closes at 5pm so hard to get there

 

Name of the Claimant ? Excel Parking

claimants Solicitors: BW Legal

 

Date of issue – don't have on me but it was in Sept 2018 (previous claim from 2017 resurrected)

* Court date is 17th Dec -Next Tue

 

Date of issue

 

What is the claim for – PCN Not displaying a valid ticket for the private car park

468 Bury New Road, Prestwich

I have copied their WS below with map location, signs, etc

 

What is the value of the claim? original ticket was £100 plus additional fees so its at £255

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? Original Excel Parking

 

In the mean time my outline defence is:

 

No locus standi as have not produce a signed contract Under CPR 31.14 that the claim be struck out on the grounds of no locus

 

*I requested the contract and they did not provide it initially, however in their WS they have produced a signed contract from the pension fund who own the land

 
 I was not the driver of the car. I have no evidence of the driver's identity. This dates back many years (2015) and difficult to remember who could have been driving 
*their WS states I only said I was not the driver at a late stage and when filing an amended defence, and appears I developed a defence to avoid liability. I have stated this from the start. 
Also that I alleged no correspondence, and the onus is on the driver to update DVLA. I did update DVLA, but I moved numerous times due to domestic abuse. This was in my set aside
Also question how I would be able to comment on the signs if not the driver of the vehicle, as she would not have first hand knowledge, therefore it is the claimants position that she is being disingenuous

I put Excel to strict proof that any contract can exist 
*Their WS states it falls foul of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999(UTCCR 1999). Claims the regulations don't apply?

keeper of the vehicle - as the protocols of the POFA have not been followed so no keeper liability created.

DVLA data was supplied for the single strict purpose of enquiring who was driving, not for bringing a case against me years later 

Signage not a transparent contract
insufficient in terms of their distribution  wording and lighting hence incapable of binding the driver, which distinguishes this case from the ParkingEye Ltd v. Beavis case 

Sporadic and illegible charge not prominent nor large lettering site/entrance signage
breach of the BPA Code of Practice. The entrance sign is on the left side so not the drivers side.

The signs have no mention of any debt collection additional charge

 The signage was not lit and not transparent contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. 

The entrance sign refers to the terms and conditions on another sign

The signs did not have planning permission under the Town and County planning. I have an email stating there was no planning permission from the council.
* Their WS says they do not need planning permission by being an approved operator of the trade association, and it is not for the county court to determine planning permission.
 
The signs do not fall under deemed consent. 
 
* Their WS states my defence appears to be cut and pasted from websites relating to parking whose aim is to assist motorists on contesting PCN's. Large portions are non sensical and irrelevant to the claim
 
Unacceptable as the defendant has signed a statement of truth whilst clearly not being the defendants knowledge
 
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP x
 
You mention I can get it struck out as they haven't sent me a bundle? They have sent me their WS online, no hard copies but I'd prefer not to go if possible
 

 

Hi this is their WS and map of carpark showing sign positions

WS_Excel_and_map.pdf

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your witness statement was due to the court by the 3rd of December.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Hi yes mine is in

 

They had the original one from 2017, which is what Excel are commenting on, however I wasn't sure if this was ok.

 My updated WS was sent in 12 days prior to the hearing but the court said that was ok. I will attach that too if useful?

 

their WS states I only said I was not the driver at a late stage and when filing an amended defence, and appears I developed a defence to avoid liability. I have stated this from the start.

 

stated that I alleged I received no correspondence, and the onus is on the driver to update DVLA.
I did update DVLA, but I moved numerous times due to domestic abuse.
This was in my set aside and part of why it was granted.
Evidence was provided at that time
 
they question how I would be able to comment on the signs if not the driver of the vehicle, as she would not have first hand knowledge, therefore it is the claimants position that she is being disingenuous.
 
I do also know somebody who had PCN from the same carpark,
He gave me all his evidence etc, Mr Booth and he won his case.

 

 

defence.pdf DEfendants WS.pdf

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what was the consent order you signed?

why didnt you mention this to us at the time.

 

 now for your point 8 you need to reword this to point out that only the driver can be laible for such additioanl charges and then only if they are drawn to his attention by way of the signage that offers the contract.

 

The keeper can never be liable for more than the sum on the NTK and in this case there is no keeper liability and you werent the driver so it isnt clear why they have sued you as there is no obvious cause for action against you as an individual.

 

i would also change the wording of the part where you say you dont know who the driver was and just state that it wasnt you and you are not obliged to identify anyone and have declined to do so.

 

Excel may nor infer anything from this and that they have done so is not only speculative but improper as far as making a claim goes.

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a farm foods store carpark..

468 Bury New Road, Prestwich

 

so no proof the contract was paid for in the years of your ticket.

just a contract written in 2009

 

I bet there is no permission from the council to vary the 2-3hrs they always grant for free parking on the original PP

and no-one has any authority to vary that.

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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I cant seem to attach the signs but they are only 3.95MB ?

 

This is the link to Excel v's booth won and he gave me all

his info and photos etc

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/01/excel-parking-v-booth.html

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/400489-excelbw-claimform-bury-new-road-manchester/

Edited by Lilypad1
delete name

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do excel need to provide proof they paid for the contract with the landowner in 2015?

can I say this contract is not enough evidence?

Can I still claim no locus standi on this? 

 

Not sure what you mean about having council permission to vary the 2-3 hours they grant for free parking on the original PP?

Is this something I should add to my WS?

I know there is no planning permission and I have an email from the council to confirm that. 

 

The signs on the car park say 1 hour free with a ticket. 

 

thanks 

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excel don't pay anything :crazy:

if you had a cleaner in your home, they don't pay you do they..

 

we're not talking about the signs/cameras PP here...

but the original planning consent to build the retail park....

no way would any council grant only 1hrs.

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Hi so I’m confused about this bit

what do you suggest I add to my WS is this ok?.....

 

The claimant have not provided sufficient evidence of a contract, there is no proof the contract was paid for in 2015, only a written contract in 2009. There is also no evidence of permission from the council to vary the 2-3 hours free parking from the original PP and only the council can vary this. I put Excel to strict proof 

 

can i I add this now to my WS as hearing is tue? 

 

So relevant to this I think is the Beavis case. Excel / BW refer to this in their WS

So this is the thread I just read about it.....Any advice?

 

Posted August 9, 2016

Hi and thank you for your interesting post.

 

I (and others) will argue otherwise.

 

The Beavis case was about one particular car park where Parking Eye paid the landowner to manage a free car park. In this case it was in PE's interest to be able to charge the £85 quoted.

 

It is my understanding that the judges stressed that the judgement was for the one car park and would not necessarily negate other claims. For instance, where a company manages a car park and pays no fee to the landowner, this would be different to the Beavis case. Also, pay and display would not count as a fee would have been paid to park. There are many variables to accurately give the same advice in every case.

 

Parking Eye have still lost cases since the judgement so while I accept what you have mentioned, all is not lost

 

 #6 andyorch

Posted August 10, 2016

I have temporarily opened this sticky for further opinions as concerns have been raised with regards to the contents of the proposed defence..Once its been finalised and agreed I will remove any posts to a discussion thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Send Sticky Note

steampowered    3,176

 

 #7

Posted August 19, 2016

Hello - I've updated the sticky to take account of the decision in Beavis. The basic message is that it is much more difficult to defend these claims now on the ground that the charge is a penalty, but there are still other challenges which should be made (e.g. if the signage was unclear or the parking company can't prove when you entered/left the car park

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you can't add anything to your ws.

the beavis case is somewhat immaterial and does not apply to your case...red herring they always role out.

 

i think you can issue a skeleton argument, or use these as notes at the hearing:

 

the claimant are incorrect in their assumptions stated in their WS point 45 sub sections 1-4 , in that the defendant as the registered keeper is by default liable for any charge they claim. I was not the driver at the time of the incident, I did not enter into nor read by any terms and conditions of any parking contract, nor could i.

 

the claimant has provided no annual proof of payment that their contract signed with the land owner to manage car parking in 2009 was still current at the date of the incident in 2015 under contract law.

 

the claimant has provided no proof their signs and anpr camera equipment have the required planning permission from the council to be erected upon the land in question at the time of the incident in 2015

 

the claimant has provided no proof, they, any resident retail outlet, any managing agent or the owner of the land can or have successfully varied the original granted parking provisions and restriction to ONE hour only from those permitted and stipulated by the council at the time of the original grant of planning.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Thanks so much! 

 

1. on planning permission my WS says: The signs did not have planning permission under the Town and County planning. 
I have an email stating there was no planning permission from the council.
The signs do not fall under deemed consent. 
* Their WS says they do not need planning permission by being an approved operator of the trade association, and it is not for the  county court to determine planning permission.
 
2. Excel are trying to say I’m dishonest. 
Their WS states my defence appears to be cut and pasted from websites relating to parking whose aim is to assist motorists on contesting PCN's. Large portions are non sensical and irrelevant to the claim
 
This is Unacceptable as the defendant has signed a statement of truth whilst clearly not being the defendants knowledge 
 
Q
Any comments? 
 
 

Their WS states that I alleged I received no correspondence, and the onus is on the driver to update DVLA.

I did update DVLA, but I moved numerous times due to domestic abuse.

This was in my set aside and part of why it was granted.

Evidence was provided at that time.

Q

Is this going to come up again? 

 

*Also they question how I would be able to comment on the signs if I’m not the driver of the vehicle, as she would not have first hand knowledge, therefore it is the claimants position that she is being disingenuous. 

 

I state that photos will be provided in my bundle. I actually haven’t submitted any but I do also know somebody who had PCN from the same carpark,

 

He gave me all his evidence etc, Mr Booth and he won his case. I linked to the parking pranksters article on it. 

Q

So is it ok to use such websites and to use photos from someone else? 

 

Thanks 

 


I put Excel to strict proof that any contract can exist 
*Their WS states it falls foul of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999(UTCCR 1999). Claims the regulations don't apply
 

This is the link to Mr Booth case who won on the signage 

Also the PCN is completely blurred and illegible in their WS evidence 

Is this another point? 

 

I have his his email regarding planning consent, Mr Booth had an email from the town planning officer stating that in his opinion the signage would require planning consent 

 

 http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/01/excel-parking-v-booth.html?m=1

 

He had a number of lines of defence, but focussed on the poor signage in the car park. Excel Parking used BW Legal who hired a local solicitor to turn up. She wasn't that well prepared and had not bothered to bring printed copies of the case. When the Judge asked her to refer to defence photographs provided of poor signage she used her phone.

Mr Booth admitted that he never bought a ticket - but this was because he never saw the signage signage in the first place and so no contract was entered into.

Excel provided pictures of the signage, date stamped for August 2015, but the event was in March 2015. They also provided at the last minute a witness statement from the landowner stating he gave authority, date stamped September 2015. The PCN they sent in their Witness statement was a photocopy and completely blurred and illegible.

Mr Booth's arguments were that;

1. Poor signage - there were "staff only" parking signs on the building wall next to where he parked - he questioned the claimant's right to sue someone parked against these bays
2. He questioned their authority to act on behalf of the landlord
3. He questioned whether the signage had planning consent.

The Judge followed this through with Excel's representative: "Did they have a contract which said these bays were exempt or not exempt from Excel issuing tickets on the vehicles parked?
As Excel had not bothered to supply a copy of the actual contract, the solicitor could not confirm either way.

Regarding. planning consent, Mr Booth had an email from the town planning officer stating that in his opinion the signage would require planning consent, and that there was no planning application on file. The judge said if Mr Booth had only brought this point up he may have found differently.

The judge clearly had doubts about the signs where any reasonable person would think the same and that the "staff only" signs would not lead them to think there was a requirement to buy a ticket.

He took a recess for 10 mins then made his judgment.

Claim refused - the parking signs cause confusion , and there was prof there was a contract which allowed the charges claimed.

He went on to state that he was staggered that serial claims companies like Excel do not take a photo of the signs at the time of erection. Why do they wait until litigation to take photos. There was no evidence that the signs were there at all on the date.

 

 

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Ive now merged and tidied all your threads on this debacle here in one place.

 

can you please attach as PDF

your full WS as you sent to the court

the copy of the consent order you signed earlier in the debacle

 

ensure you redact both properly

read upload carefully

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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I don’t have a computer so I can’t send the consent order but I copied the wording earlier in the post in reply to Ericsbrother 

 

I can attach it but will have to go to the library tomorrow to scan it and then send as an attachment, unless there’s another way off a phone? I have it as an attachment on an email 

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copy the attachment to here on cag 

use choose file below where you type 

don't worry if its not redacted i'll sort it

or PM me it in a msg.

 

 

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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I’m trying to screen shot the emails from court etc but if says it can’t attach it’s not the right format? 

 

This consent order is for the original set aside in 2016/2017

 

hearing was set then discontinued 

 

 

consent order ccJ99.pdf

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@Lilypad1

1 minute ago, Lilypad1 said:

I’m trying to screen shot the emails from court etc but if says it can’t attach it’s not the right format? 

convert to PDF using one of the many PDF converter on line websites and pm it.

 

above in you last msg I've attached the consent order

that was for only ONE of the 2 CCJ's-  the other is the one you currently have the hearing date for on the dec 17.

 

HOW did BW resurrect [re[open] this case as it was already well stayed

did they file an N244 to re open it and that's what the hearing is about?

 

if not send me the LAST court document you got that mentions this 17th hearing please

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Hi I have PM you the consent order for the original set aside for this case from 2017. 

 

It’s confusing but it appears my defence for this one wasn’t registered although it was sent to court. The other one of the two cases I got a discontinuance for, presumably this is due to the defence not being on file for this one. 

 

this year I was told I had to do another set aside as it went to old address and I had a CCJ. I wrote to court explaining all this and sent them the original docs in the first part of my WS -consent orders, the one discontinuance letter from Excel, email of my original defence to Bury court (they said it’s not on file) 

 

I can’t find the court letter sorry 

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i understand now.

 

consent order is in post above 

 

stop hitting QUOTE.

just type

that's why people and YOU keep getting confused 

we know what we have said you don't need to repeat it.

 

this hearing on the 17th is in response to YOUR N244 application to set aside the 2nd CCJ's default judgement as you wrongly assumed the consent ordered covered both cases when it didn't.

 

so you've spent £255 and sent an N244 to set aside 

what reason on the N244 form did you give as to why you didn't receive the claimform [forget the parking issue it's about for the minute]?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Ok sorry for that I’m a complete technophobe! 😬

 

I was granted a set aside without paying the fee again after as I sent in the info in section 1 of my WS above. 

 

I spoke to the court and on here too and was advised to send in all info I had ie both consent orders, my original defence submissions, the email from judge Osborne accepting the set aside etc and ask a judge to look at it. It was then given a set aside. I had paid 2 set aside fees in 2017 so I didn’t see why I should pay again

 

in answer to your questions

I had two consent orders for both cases in 2017 that both excel and I signed.

I had to send in my defence for both which I did, but this one didn’t get registered on the file for some reason. 

it seems to me this is the reason only one got discontinued.

 

I presumed  both were discontinued as they had been dealt with together which I specifically requested in my original n244,

I requested the same hearing etc.

Both CCJ’s were removed in 2017 

 

My reason for not getting the court forms is that I had moved from the address.

I will PM you this as it’s sensitive 

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you sent cosent for CCJ99 twice [same file]

need consent order for 68 please


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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i have added to the 68consent order to your post above

 

did you attend the 17th june 2017 set aside hearing for both

or was this done on paper alone?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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