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2 backdoor 2016 CCJ's - Excel/BW for 2x2015 PCN's - both set aside by mutual consent orders etc - now seems 1 didn't, found re-registered backdoor CCJ - help

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You have nothing to lose but you had better make sure that you can provide the evidence to show that you are likely to thrash them if they say no.

 

If set-aside granted and they lose this time they have to pay your costs so they stand to be some £600 out of pocket before they start and this may be an incentive to agree and hope to beat you on the day

 

(they wont with a decent defence, that wont be able to claim keeper liability and you can hopefully find something to support your statement of not being the driver at the time

( at work? can show by receipts that you were elsewhere)

 

No need to say who was driving, let them eat dirt not rook someone else even if it was your ex.

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Hi I'm fine to say my ex was the driver! He's actually admitted it which never thought he would, so they can send it to his house if needs be

 

Ok so if I call them I say:

I am going to defend in court but before I do so I'm calling to see if we can come to an agreement.

This would save excel at least £600 plus the time in putting a defence together.

 

I believe I have a strong defence as follows:

 

I did not receive the paperwork until last fri as I was not at the address.

I immediately called the court so they are aware

 

Excel did not have authority to form a contract

 

The signs on the site were confusing with numerous different signs ie staff parking

 

Signs were illegal due to size, spacing etc

 

No planning permission in place

 

No contract was formed only intended

 

I want the Ccj's removed.

 

Do I agree to pay a reasonable amount?

It's over £200 at the moment

 

Thanks!! :-)

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you phone and ask excel if they will set aside the errant CCJ by mutual consent

that cost to no-one ....nothing.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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paying Excel anything wont remove the CCJ, only the set aside can do that.

 

The only agreement you should ask for and accept is that they agree to the set-aside and that will save you the fees

 

The entire idea of this is to fght it so why would you want to pay them anyway?

 

The other points are there to show that you have a reasonable prospect of defeating the claim if it goes to a rehearing.

It is not essential to go into great detail on the form at this time

 

Also, you must use the correct terminology,

the signs arent illegal,

they may be there unlawfully if they dont have planning permission and they may be in breach of the trade association's code of practice which would prevent them from lawfully obtaining your keeper details (or making it unlawful to do so, howver you want to phrase it) and more importantly no keeper liability ever created so they have no cause for action against you

 

I still wouldnt mention who was driving it will only casue more problems,

better to let them lose the claim and get no money at all rather than risk ending up back in court because they then decide to change tactics

 

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT PHONE EXCEL OR BW AT ALL..

Your request should be in writing only.

 

i would send it to Excel rather than the BW poodles,

do the latter and they will scent more money for them and you wont get an agreement.

 

 

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Thanks Ericsbrother

Phew this is so complicated to me.

Thanks for advice on how to write it in correct terms

All a bit over my head really.

If they agree to a set aside do we still go to court?

I guess I don't then need to do n244?

 

Or does that mean that they just put amount back to the original amount?

Or the full fees as at present?

 

Thanks again :-)

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you have to fill out the N244 to set aside the default judgements and you have to pay for these UNLESS Excel agree to the setting aside (they probably wont).

 

You are then back at square 1 so you will have to go to court for the original claim to be considered.

If you beat them at the hearing then you get all of your money back plus any expenses that you have borne.

 

If they win they get to claim the money they asked for BUT you dont have a CCJ registered, you only got that because you didnt pay in time.(you didnt know)

 

This is all about wiping the slate clean for the moment we will concentracet on beating them when you get a new court date for a hearing of THEIR CLAIM, which wil only happen if you get the set aside.

 

You must read the posts very carefully and then you wont be misunderstanding the process or why you need to do this.

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Hi eb

 

thanks for your help I have read over all the threads now and have a better understanding

 

I also called the court on friday and spoke to an understanding guy there.

I think I have a strong case for a hearing / set aside

 

I will ask excel for a mutual set aside to save us both costs and hopefully they will as will save them more than me in solicitors costs.

 

 

Reading the forums they usually send a solicitor.

They have also lost a few cases at this site for the same reasons!!

 

As a lay person unless you read up you would just either take the costs or have limited chance of winning in court as its very complex the way things need to be put across

- so huge thanks to you and all the team on this brilliant site!

 

eb

 

why do you think excel wont agree to the mutual set aside?

it will potentially save them a lot of money?

I will mention that a few cases form this site have won against them.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi ok so I will say to excel

 

1

I had moved address and didn't recieve paperwork.

I called the court immediately when I got letters and spoke to them.

They said its a strong case (but not allowed to give legal advice)

 

2 signs are there unlawfully as dont have planning permission

- I have email off the council.

Turns out I know somebody in this council dept

 

3 in breach of the trade association's code of practice which would prevent them from lawfully obtaining your keeper details

 

4 no keeper liability ever created so they have no cause for action against you

 

5 no contract was formed only deemed

 

thanks! :-)

 

sorry keep thinking of things

 

dx you say not to worry about the enforcement but if they do enforcement before we agree set aside mutual or the court get my n244 does this add costs?

 

thanks:-)

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what have i said twice here about bailiffs.

 

if you have written evidence from the council that the signs are unlawful

theres your defence for the set aside


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Why wont Excel agree a set aside? They are greedy and stupid. They at present have the upper hand and can get the bailiffs to collect. They are not going to throw that away whent ehy know there is a very good chance they will lose the actual claim. Get real.

 

You can ask but dont delay. DO NOT write anying else other than saying that you are appying for a set-aside as you didnt receive the court papers and will they agree to this. dont say why you didnt get them, dont mention anything about your circustances or the claim itself.

 

Stop wasting time and submit the N244 is my advice, that puts a hold on the bailiffs anyway. You can speak to the court bailiffs and tell them that the N244 was submitted on such a date and they will put a hold on things and have a look at the filings to see if you are telling the truth Wasting anohter week wondering what is going to happen makes it more likely that you will get a knock so get on with what you are supposed to do.

 

YOU DONT WRITE TO EXCEL ABOUT THE CLAIM ITSELF. , I thought you had learned this by now. If you wite to them with your defence they will get busy doctoring their evidence ( yes they do this)

 

As for solicitors, so what, they ahve no more rights in a small claims court than you do and generally dont know what is going on in your case as they only get the paperwork the day before so you will have tem at an advantage as they cont speak about letters, signage or anything elase that is a metter of fact, just hope to waffle about irrelevant case law.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.

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Hi Eb

 

Ok so I'm getting a bit confused, other advice of dx says to mention the defense to excel to show it is strong and that others have won at this site etc. You are saying just tell them I didn't receive the papers.

 

I know not to let the bailiffs - in they have no right so they will not get anything that way - I could state that too?

 

thanks

 

Hi dx yes I will have written defense for the planning permission but am waiting for it :-D

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DX said to tell them that you have strong defence and that you know others have defeated claims at this site on points you intend to use ( ie the one point about planning). This is not the same as writing them an essay, it is just telling them you have a very big stick to beat them with..

 

I still recommend that you keep the 2 separate as you are misunderstanding a lot of what is being advised.

 

You also think they send a lawyer to the set aside

- where on earth did you get this from?

 

It is usually a paper hearing,

they wont want to lose more money by employing a solicitor to say "I object" when the main reason for the set-aside is you were not residing at the address the court papers were sent to therefore you didnt get them.

 

That is really the only reason you can argue for a set-aside,

the rest is to show that you have a defence for when it goes back to a hearing.

Generally if yours is a hopeless case you dont get the set aside as it will be a waste of the court's time.

 

You need to show the court something but that doesnt mean that Excel have to be told everything at this time.

 

YOU WILL NOT GET A SET ASIDE BASED UPON A DEFENCE YOU DIDNT SUBMIT.

 

That is not what it is about otherwise everyone who gets a default judgement against them would be at it.

 

So, set aside first,

then when you have that you will be given another date,

then you submit a full defence when ordered to.

 

You can use a part 18 request for proof they sent all of the paperwork out if you think they didnt do it right, Excel will have got it wrong to create a keeper liability.

 

This is better than naming the driver because unless the driver is happy to turn up at court as a witness the get sued by Excel you will have chcuked away more than 50% of the winning arguments.

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Hi

 

Ok doing n244 now ready to post tomorrow hopefully

 

so I will say:

 

1.I didn't receive the papers (is this enough?)

 

I intend to defend the case based on the following:

1.signs are extremely confusing, with different signs, and private / staff bays, sign says please refer to other signs for terms and conditions therefore a contract is only deemed

2.signs are unlawful as no planning planning permission in place

3.didnt use the POFA correctly to create a keeper liability

4.no contract can ever be entered into so no cause for action

5.no keeper liability ever created so they have no cause for action

 

do I need to send photos of signs, email off council re planning permission ( not got this yet)but Karbot posted this extract a few months ago

from planning dept:

 

"There is no planning history to show there was approval for a “pay and display car park”.

extract : " In the circumstances you have described I would say yes advertisement consent was required for the signs. This is however my own opinion and not that of the Council. I suggest you take some professional legal advice from a firm that specialises in planning law to assist your case.

 

Yours sincerely,"

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i didnt receive the papers because they were sent to an old address.

 

point 1, it is not deemed.

The signage is an invitation to treat and not a contract

- you have to get the wording right rather than making it up.

 

point 4 will need some expanding in the future so dont use the word ever, say no contract was formed instead

 

point 5 is repetition of point 3 so delete

 

You dont need anything at this point,

it is not a hearing,

it is a decision on whether to allow a hearing,

this point has been made abundantly clear.

 

 

Everything else comes at a hearing if the set aside is granted

Edited by dx100uk

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liltypad, your mail inbox is full, empty it and I can respond to your messages

but here is the advice that goes with the suggestion.

 

DO NOT DO THAT, you will lose the set-aside, might get done for perjuring yourself and whoever suggested it to you should be dogknotted.

 

it is a stupid idea for a number of other reasons.

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Hi

 

Huge thanks to ericsbrother for helping me and being very patient.

Also dx too.

 

Sending my n244 today with proof of address and doctors note

 

One question is do i need to send two copies to the court or one to excel and one to the court?

 

Thanks

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just the court

you don't need to copy or sent to claimant AFAIK


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Hi dx ok just one copy to the court then? thanks

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that's what it say on the n244............

 

you are applying to the court to set something aside

 

the claimant has nothing to do with it at this stage have no involvement and you don't need their permission....

the court will inform them...


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Hi I hope you are able to assist me your help will be much appreciated

 

This I believe should have been dealt with last year as excel brought two identical cases, ,one was this this case against me in 2017.

I defended it and excel dropped it (but I believe a court error) but I have a just had a new CCJ against me for the same case

 

Excel brought two claims against me in 2017.

Exactly the same but diff dates.

 

My defence and N180 (exactly the same) was sent in at the same time for them both.

 

Excel discontinued case 1 but for some reason I think there was a court error and my defence was not initially registered for case 2.

 

I re-sent the email with my defence to the court and both my CCJ’s were removed.

I therefore presumed both were dealt with and dropped by excel.

 

It should all have been dealt with last year but I have a new CCJ for the same case in Sept 2018

 

I got a set asides as they sent papers to an old address (plus I wasn’t the driver, they didn’t follow POFA and illegal signage and no planning permission for signs) and excel dropped them in 2017.

 

These 2 cases running concurrent with the same defence and always dealt with together

 

They have now given me a new default CCJ as I did not return the papers/questionnaire.

This however was sent to my now very old address which was changed at DVLA many months ago.

 

This I believe was an original error by the court (in 2017) as it should have been dealt with the same as case 1 ie defended and dropped in 2017.

 

I do not really want to pay another £255 as I’ve already had a set aside for this case and paid it once, and as they dropped it I couldn’t ask for my costs.

The court are telling me this is now a new case as I did not return the forms and that I have to pay for a set aside again

 

Any advice would be very much appreciated

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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you will need to request that the court try and correct their errors BUT if the bandits have made a new claim then you will have to go after a set aside and summary dismissal without a hearing on the basis this is identical to the one they have already lost and they have deliberately issued summons to an incorrect address so you want the to pay on a full costs recovery basis.

 

IMO courts never admit they have got things wrong.

 

The substance of the claim is immaterial,

as is your defence and

 

the fact you changed your details with the DVLA (they have to use the details given at the time but as you gave them a correct address for service of documents they have no excuse for this), this is about abuse of the procedure on purpose.

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Hi thanks for that.

 

I apply for a set aside and mention in there I want them to pay on a full costs recovery basis?

They will probably drop this though like last time.

Is there any way I can recover my 3x set aside fees?

 

Any point in contacting them and asking them to drop it now as it will be cheaper for them too?

 

Thanks

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however if they refuse then you included the fact you want all these fees back at this claims set aside hearing.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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you can ask but they are greedy idiots and may well fancy their chances against you this time by trying to introduce a load of bull at a set-aside hearing and hope they dont get a costs order against them.

I havent worked out how big a lie these peope eneed to tell before they get into proper trouble because it hanst happened yet

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Hi I have a date to defend an alleged parking ticket in the next few weeks.

I had an email to say that the client won’t be attending and will be sending an advocate 

 

They emailed their witness statement but not sent a paper copy.

Is all this ok? 

 

This is was a case for that I defended previously (there were two identical cases with a different date) 

I sent my defence and they discontinued them, They asked me to sign a consent order which I did.

But only one was discontinued, some error I think.

This one has resurrected 2 years later!

 

i've attached my original defence sent for the hearing following the successful set aside below

 

 
 

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Could you provide us with the information requested in the forum sticky please? That will help the guys to understand what should be in your defence.

 

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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